Jedi Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Visibility Rules
duurron
Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:42 pm
#27
i read a thread from songouki pre cu saying that u lose vis when killing a bh with your mission, is that true oe not? when i can tell is, that if u kill a bh, im fine for about 2 days, then the next comes, maybe just destiny...
iskareot
Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:46 pm
#28
Baciacca wrote:
I just saw a thread where someone was confused on how visibility actually works. I have asked for a list of current rules from theDevsbut no reply. Lets try to build a list of visibility rules here. Please be serious and lets get a working list together to help out the newer Jedi. Thanks.
Man you know of all people asking people this question is like the blind leading the blind..
We are at the mercy of the Devs on this and this alone... SURE we know the old rules.. 32m and all that crap-- but don't try to tell me these guys don't change the rules on a Whim at any given time.
I mean this is kinda a funny thing to ASK US vs them..
UTech
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:24 pm
#29
This is the official visibility statement from Sony.
Each of the following Jedi-relation actions has an associated Jedi Visibility Modifier:
-Equipping a Lightsaber.
-Initiating Combat with a Lightsaber equipped.
-Using any Jedi-related skills that consume Force power.
All PCs and all non-animal NPCs that observe a Jedi performing any of the above stated actions (observed as defined as within 32 meters) will contribute to an increase in the Jedi's Visibility Value (JVV).
-An opposing faction member who views this action will add the full value of the action to the Jedi Visibility Value.
-A Neutral PC or non-animal NPC will increase the JVV by 50 percent of the action's Jedi Visibility Modifier.
-A same-faction PC or non-animal NPC will increase the JVV by 25 percent of the action's Jedi Visibility Modifier.
negilum
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:45 pm
#30
Notaku wrote:
So, just to clarify...I know this has been said, but please humor meIf I am way out in the middle of nowhere, nothing within range, I can equip a saber, robe and turn on force run and LEAVE all of this the way it is and I will not gain vis from being around NPCs and players and whatnot? Just wanting to get 100% on this...I see lots of people wearing robes and sabers and it seems odd to me that holding a saber doesnt generate visibility while equipping one does....Wouldnt one HAVE to equip a saber to be seen holding one? Can NPCs not put 1+1? Thanks! I guess I can answer my own question...its how the code in the game works visibility, you have to actually USE something that would define you as a jedi....
force run has an upkeep cost, 5 force every 10 seconds. if a player or npc is within 32m when it ticks you get vis.
Mach_Ine
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:12 pm
#31
duurron wrote:
i read a thread from songouki pre cu saying that u lose vis when killing a bh with your mission, is that true oe not? when i can tell is, that if u kill a bh, im fine for about 2 days, then the next comes, maybe just destiny...
This is not true. I had a guildmate kill a BH pre-CU, and was killed in turn by another BH about 15 minutes later. I killed a BH yesterday, went AFK in the (private, fortunately) cantina for an hour, came back and found another sitting on the doorstep waiting for me.
Well... you might lose some vis, but you definitely will not lose it all.
Message Edited by Mach_Ine on 09-09-2005 09:15 PM
negilum
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:21 pm
#32
Mach_Ine wrote:
duurron wrote:
i read a thread from songouki pre cu saying that u lose vis when killing a bh with your mission, is that true oe not? when i can tell is, that if u kill a bh, im fine for about 2 days, then the next comes, maybe just destiny...
This is not true. I had a guildmate kill a BH pre-CU, and was killed in turn by another BH about 15 minutes later. I killed a BH yesterday, went AFK in the (private, fortunately) cantina for an hour, came back and found another sitting on the doorstep waiting for me.Well... you might lose some vis, but you definitely will not lose it all.Message Edited by Mach_Ine on 09-09-2005 09:15 PM
yep, dying to a bh and logging off for 3 weeks are the only ways to get off the terminals. if you end up killing the bh you'll gain vis from all the force you spend.
Anakroid
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:41 pm
#33
I'm curious if it's true that you gain visibility while cloaked. Gaining visibility while invisible, who's the genius in charge of this one?
TonieStark
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:42 pm
#34
Novock wrote:
3. How much visbility if any is lost off the Jedi if he/she is killed by a BH. Currently its seems that its either not much or bugged as I have seen jedi get hit within 15 minutes of getting killed with no real action to have caused any additonal vis.
Novock, this could be the result of a mission being held in a datapad "before" the Jediwas killed by the first BH. Missions can be held for up to 3 days by BHs. So in essence if Jedi gets killed and if that indeed causses the jedi to lose vis (which was my understanding as well), there could still be a a BH with a mission in his datapad that he had aquired "before" the Jedi was killed.
steveybabes
Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:26 pm
#35
if you are a cocky jedi like me, the best thing to get multiple bounty hunter visiting you within the space of 1hr all you have to do is npc missions. today I was bored and decided i needed a little excitement with my jedi.took 2 npc missions killed emand 2 bh shown up within 20mins 10 mins later another. before this i wasnt visible, so attacking an npc and i think killing it must put you on the terms more or less a lot more than most other jedi who have had encounters with npc and ran off. i think i am gonna make a habit of it to get my pvp rating up a bit more 
Kid22
Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:19 am
#36
The below link will answer all your questions, kinda surprised this was never added to the FAQ..but here ya go 
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=818896#M818896
DeadlyTedly
Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:33 am
#37
I finished my grind prior to the CU, but here are the tried and tested rules that applied then:
Do not perform any Jedi related 'action' within 32m of an NPC or ungrouped player, this definitely includes:
* The action of Equiping / Unequiping saber
* The action of performing a saber specials
* The action of a force ability draining force
* The action of tuning a crystal
It possibly includes the action of equiping/unequiping robes, but was never tested to my knowledge.
And now for the controversial one:
If your saber is ignited by a mob initiating combat with you, this does not in itself cause visibility. Prior to the CU when you were attacked by a mob, we had a passive attack which did minimum dmg (not to be confused with /attack).
I killed hundreds of npcs using this passive attack and never once got on the terms. Many other players tested this extensively and had the same results.
As soon as any attack other than the default one was used then we gained vis.
Now, post-cu we no longer have this default attack, instead we have to select one. This suggests to me that our sabers igniting will still not cause visibility but using any of our attacks will.
Do we have any attacks which do not drain force? If so it would be interesting for someone to test to see if it gets them on the terms or not.
Some other notes:
Forcerun1/2/3 will now cause constant vis as it is a constant force drain.
Forcearmour will only cause vis when you take dmg as it is only then it drains force.
Forceaura only cause vis when it is activated, so after that you can enjoy the benefits for 40secs without generating vis.
Cloak will cause constant vis as it is a constant force drain.
Once your saber is equiped it will not cause visibilty unless you attack something.
etc. etc.
Do not perform any Jedi related 'action' within 32m of an NPC or ungrouped player, this definitely includes:
* The action of Equiping / Unequiping saber
* The action of performing a saber specials
* The action of a force ability draining force
* The action of tuning a crystal
It possibly includes the action of equiping/unequiping robes, but was never tested to my knowledge.
And now for the controversial one:
If your saber is ignited by a mob initiating combat with you, this does not in itself cause visibility. Prior to the CU when you were attacked by a mob, we had a passive attack which did minimum dmg (not to be confused with /attack).
I killed hundreds of npcs using this passive attack and never once got on the terms. Many other players tested this extensively and had the same results.
As soon as any attack other than the default one was used then we gained vis.
Now, post-cu we no longer have this default attack, instead we have to select one. This suggests to me that our sabers igniting will still not cause visibility but using any of our attacks will.
Do we have any attacks which do not drain force? If so it would be interesting for someone to test to see if it gets them on the terms or not.
Some other notes:
Forcerun1/2/3 will now cause constant vis as it is a constant force drain.
Forcearmour will only cause vis when you take dmg as it is only then it drains force.
Forceaura only cause vis when it is activated, so after that you can enjoy the benefits for 40secs without generating vis.
Cloak will cause constant vis as it is a constant force drain.
Once your saber is equiped it will not cause visibilty unless you attack something.
etc. etc.
Message Edited by DeadlyTedly on 09-10-2005 11:35 AM
Message Edited by DeadlyTedly on 09-10-2005 11:40 AM
DeadlyTedly
Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:38 am
#38
TonieStark wrote:
Novock wrote:
3. How much visbility if any is lost off the Jedi if he/she is killed by a BH. Currently its seems that its either not much or bugged as I have seen jedi get hit within 15 minutes of getting killed with no real action to have caused any additonal vis.
Novock, this could be the result of a mission being held in a datapad "before" the Jedi was killed by the first BH. Missions can be held for up to 3 days by BHs. So in essence if Jedi gets killed and if that indeed causses the jedi to lose vis (which was my understanding as well), there could still be a a BH with a mission in his datapad that he had aquired "before" the Jedi was killed.
I was under the impression that all BH got 'mission failed' when another BH beat them to the kill.
Is this another thing which has changed?
Eskie
Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:08 am
#39
Baciacca wrote:I just saw a thread where someone was confused on how visibility actually works. I have asked for a list of current rules from the Devs but no reply. Lets try to build a list of visibility rules here. Please be serious and lets get a working list together to help out the newer Jedi. Thanks.
If you hover over a dot on your radar with your mouse and it says "Character", it can give visibility if it is closer than 32m when a Jedi does one of the following:
- equipping lightsaber
- equipping Jedi robe
- executing any Jedi move (Force Aura, Lightsaber attacks, Force Powers attacks, Force Sap, Force Run ...)
- tuning a crystal / pearl
Only "characters" the Jedi is grouped with do not give visibility even if within 32m. Non-grouped faction pets give the Jedi owner visibility (they are non-grouped "characters" even though they belong to the Jedi).
The amount of visibility gained depends on the factional relation between the Jedi and the "character" giving visibility:
- only rebel and imperial count as faction, all other factions (Jabba, Valarian, Nightsister, CorSec...) are neutrals for the purpose of visibility calculations
- opposing faction gives full visibility
- neutrals give half the visibility
- same faction gives 1/4th of the visibility
- neutral Jedi get half the visibility from everything
There is a "visibility threshold" a Jedi needs to reach before he is put on the BH terms. So one or two visibility "accidents" will not cause a Jedi to pop up on the terms. If a Jedi pops up on the terms, up to 5 BHs can get the Jedi's mission (although due to the design of BH terminals, the actual fights will be 1 vs 1 more than likely).
Actual numbers for the visibility given from actions are unknown, as is if different actions give different amounts of visibility, as is the visibility threshold.
Visibility auto-decays slowly - no matter if a Jedi is logged in or not. If a Jedi has full visibility, he will drop below the visibility threshold if he does not get any new visibility for 3 weeks. If a Jedi's visibility drops below the threshold by auto-decay, existing BH missions are not cancelled.
A deathblow or triple-incap by a BH with a mission on the Jedi will drop the visibility below the threshold instantly and cancel all other BH missions on the Jedi (although there are reports of Jedi still being on the terms after dieing to a BH - mostly related to respec and group-grinding while groups gave visibility).
There is no way for a Jedi to know if he is on the terminals apart from a BH attacking or a BH telling the Jedi he is on the terms.
Recently there were reports of group members still giving visibility because people who group-grinded while carefully taking all necessary steps to avoid visibility got attacked by BHs. Personally I think group members do not give visibility, but cloaked Jedi stalking a group will give the whole group visibility.