Jedi Archive
Thread: Electrolyte Drain Discussion
Soulcaster
Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:26 pm
#14
CM *IS* a support class!! You think its offenseive?!?!? It takes me 30min just to wear down a full temp master defender to the point where im starting to get the edge. A Master rifleman either kills him in 3min or dies right away. I have to work my ass off for these kills! Not to mention 9 out of 10 of them result in me fighting for 45+ min and then i die.
TarqEmeril
Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:36 pm
#15
i actually think its a -40% speed debuff, i got tapes and buffs to cancel out the speed debuff except it didnt cancel it out, it hardly made a difference when i had the new uber tapes and was debuffed to when i didnt have the tapes and i was debuffed.
MDBangs
Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:41 pm
#16
TarqEmeril wrote:
i actually think its a -40% speed debuff, i got tapes and buffs to cancel out the speed debuff except it didnt cancel it out, it hardly made a difference when i had the new uber tapes and was debuffed to when i didnt have the tapes and i was debuffed.
Tapes and force speed is still not as fast, unless your saber speed is like 1.17 or something which can happen.
Eleutherios
Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:07 pm
#17
MDBangs wrote:
Soulcaster wrote:
/diagree
us combat medics have no weapon profession enhancements. (IE: Master Rifleman or pisoleer with + Accuracy, speed,etc) Leave our medic skills alone please.
The offense you get with BH is better than jedi. The healing you get is better than jedi. You are one of the few professions with DoTs, and you have tons of debuffs, more defense then most jedi, and you still say that your not strong on offense? Give me a break...
Um, show me a duel between a plain (no other prof) MBH vs a plain MasterLightsaber and see who wins.
As for heals, try goingMaster Healer. I fought an MHealer once who could heal pretty much his whole health bar in one shot. That's better than a Master normal healing prof. Unfortunately many Jedi like to dabble in just the first tree of healer, and then expect themselves to be uber.
EricAD
Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:27 pm
#18
Soulcaster wrote:
/diagree
us combat medics have no weapon profession enhancements. (IE: Master Rifleman or pisoleer with + Accuracy, speed,etc) Leave our medic skills alone please.
Try fighting with a -40 speed debuff and with a saber that has bugged speed so that you attack at the same speed as a novice lightsaber at lightsaber master.
MDBangs
Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:20 pm
#19
Eleutherios wrote:
MDBangs wrote:
Soulcaster wrote:
/diagree
us combat medics have no weapon profession enhancements. (IE: Master Rifleman or pisoleer with + Accuracy, speed,etc) Leave our medic skills alone please.
The offense you get with BH is better than jedi. The healing you get is better than jedi. You are one of the few professions with DoTs, and you have tons of debuffs, more defense then most jedi, and you still say that your not strong on offense? Give me a break...
Um, show me a duel between a plain (no other prof) MBH vs a plain MasterLightsaber and see who wins.
As for heals, try goingMaster Healer. I fought an MHealer once who could heal pretty much his whole health bar in one shot. That's better than a Master normal healing prof. Unfortunately many Jedi like to dabble in just the first tree of healer, and then expect themselves to be uber.
Yes it is so much better it uses around 1k force (force bar is 7200 with a robe and a double mastery template btw) and more mind than any of your moves. Not to mention master healer is pretty much useless compared to a CM, as for mls vs MBH I would say that would actually be even it comes down to all the crap CM's can apply that are over powered compared to a jedi healing that is not even half as good as yours. And for dabbling in the first tree of healer I would like to see you be a MH, they use more mind and force then any profession.That arguement is complete crap, since 90% of the BH'S EXPECT TO HAVE4000 CM AND BE UBER!. MH is only good if it has some defender/enhancer defense backing it up, unfortunately that means not having mls, or force run, or channel which are all vital to jedi. It would be like you getting hit for over 1k damage because you chose to have really good healing instead of defense. Lucky for you the devs love CM and gave you defense with your healing. Maybe that is the answer to the problems give defense in all jedi trees since the jedi that get hit by a CM/Bh every time have no defender.
Eleutherios
Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:23 pm
#20
Are you sure? I fought an MHealer once (or at least very high up in healer), and he was spamming those heals like it was no tomorrow. The fight lasted at least 30 min because he kept running/healing most of his health in one shot. Anyway, Jedi professions are divided up into roles (unlike the way normal profs are divided up.) You want healer, take healer. You want defense, take defense. And so on and so forth. If you keep playing your Jedi like it was a normal prof you're going to keep losing.
MDBangs wrote:
Eleutherios wrote:
MDBangs wrote:
Soulcaster wrote:
/diagree
us combat medics have no weapon profession enhancements. (IE: Master Rifleman or pisoleer with + Accuracy, speed,etc) Leave our medic skills alone please.
The offense you get with BH is better than jedi. The healing you get is better than jedi. You are one of the few professions with DoTs, and you have tons of debuffs, more defense then most jedi, and you still say that your not strong on offense? Give me a break...
Um, show me a duel between a plain (no other prof) MBH vs a plain MasterLightsaber and see who wins.
As for heals, try goingMaster Healer. I fought an MHealer once who could heal pretty much his whole health bar in one shot. That's better than a Master normal healing prof. Unfortunately many Jedi like to dabble in just the first tree of healer, and then expect themselves to be uber.
Yes it is so much better it uses around 1k force (force bar is 7200 with a robe and a double mastery template btw) and more mind than any of your moves. Not to mention master healer is pretty much useless compared to a CM, as for mls vs MBH I would say that would actually be even it comes down to all the crap CM's can apply that are over powered compared to a jedi healing that is not even half as good as yours. And for dabbling in the first tree of healer I would like to see you be a MH, they use more mind and force then any profession.That arguement is complete crap, since 90% of the BH'S EXPECT TO HAVE4000 CM AND BE UBER!. MH is only good if it has some defender/enhancer defense backing it up, unfortunately that means not having mls, or force run, or channel which are all vital to jedi. It would be like you getting hit for over 1k damage because you chose to have really good healing instead of defense. Lucky for you the devs love CM and gave you defense with your healing. Maybe that is the answer to the problems give defense in all jedi trees since the jedi that get hit by a CM/Bh every time have no defender.
Ialwysdie
Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:30 pm
#21
The nerf calls need to stop.
You talk about CM being too powerful. If a player with only MCM came after you they would probably die as they wouldn't have the damage output.
Now MCM/BH is different story but that's a template not a profession.
Because of that there will never be balance in this game. MCM is effective but ony with the help of another profession. If you could easily say that the BH side of the template deals out too much damage in relation to healing ability or debuff abiity.
Certain templates will have the edge over others and if you tweak one skill in a profession you end up nerfing an entire template combinations and possibly make others more powerful at the same time.
It may be easy to balance 1 singel profession against another single profession. But it's near impossible to balance multiple profession combinations against other multiple profession combinations.
Certain Templates are going to have an edge over others and no matter how you tweak them it just changes the balance shift from one side to the other rather then equalizing it.
Combine this with.
All weapons are not the same.
All armor is not the same.
Skill mods change depending on the combinations
Level seems to have no bearing on skill other then for PVE and how much mobs can hit you for.
There's just too much to have complete balance like some want.
Message Edited by Ialwysdie on 09-13-2005 08:34 PM
MDBangs
Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:30 pm
#22
Eleutherios wrote:
Are you sure? I fought an MHealer once (or at least very high up in healer), and he was spamming those heals like it was no tomorrow. The fight lasted at least 30 min because he kept running/healing most of his health in one shot. Anyway, Jedi professions are divided up into roles (unlike the way normal profs are divided up.) You want healer, take healer. You want defense, take defense. And so on and so forth. If you keep playing your Jedi like it was a normal prof you're going to keep losing.
MDBangs wrote:
Eleutherios wrote:
MDBangs wrote:
Soulcaster wrote:
/diagree
us combat medics have no weapon profession enhancements. (IE: Master Rifleman or pisoleer with + Accuracy, speed,etc) Leave our medic skills alone please.
The offense you get with BH is better than jedi. The healing you get is better than jedi. You are one of the few professions with DoTs, and you have tons of debuffs, more defense then most jedi, and you still say that your not strong on offense? Give me a break...
Um, show me a duel between a plain (no other prof) MBH vs a plain MasterLightsaber and see who wins.
As for heals, try goingMaster Healer. I fought an MHealer once who could heal pretty much his whole health bar in one shot. That's better than a Master normal healing prof. Unfortunately many Jedi like to dabble in just the first tree of healer, and then expect themselves to be uber.
Yes it is so much better it uses around 1k force (force bar is 7200 with a robe and a double mastery template btw) and more mind than any of your moves. Not to mention master healer is pretty much useless compared to a CM, as for mls vs MBH I would say that would actually be even it comes down to all the crap CM's can apply that are over powered compared to a jedi healing that is not even half as good as yours. And for dabbling in the first tree of healer I would like to see you be a MH, they use more mind and force then any profession.That arguement is complete crap, since 90% of the BH'S EXPECT TO HAVE4000 CM AND BE UBER!. MH is only good if it has some defender/enhancer defense backing it up, unfortunately that means not having mls, or force run, or channel which are all vital to jedi. It would be like you getting hit for over 1k damage because you chose to have really good healing instead of defense. Lucky for you the devs love CM and gave you defense with your healing. Maybe that is the answer to the problems give defense in all jedi trees since the jedi that get hit by a CM/Bh every time have no defender.
Maybe it was before they nerfed them. For awhile pre-cu you could spam heal with a low force cost and no mind cost. Having healer 4000 and healer 4444 (without master) makes no difference in the healing. The problem is as a Master Force Healer they use more mind and force then any other healing profession. Now in a long lasting fight like that it is hard to keep your mind bar up enough with the debuffs, and even if you can you run out of force. I do not want this nerfed I just believe that a healing profession that easily takes 10x longer and more skillpoints should be at least better in some ways.
It is very hard to find the perfect mix of healing and defnese in a jedi template well without being a FOTM at least. As a comabt medic you get some defense, as your secondary profession you get no defense. Lets say your a carbineer, and you were forced to take rifleman to get any defense. It does not make any sense that a carbineer/bh/cm gets no defense right? Well that's the basic problem with jedi, you can dabble in four of the five professions and still have no defense. As a jedi you are nearly forced to take some defender and obviously healing which I do not believe is right. Like my other example how would you feel if you were forced to take a row of rifleman to not get hit every time someone shoots at you. (Lets also assume you hate rifleman to make this more accurate)
Antsyn
Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:30 pm
#23
Soulcaster wrote:
CM *IS* a support class!! You think its offenseive?!?!? It takes me 30min just to wear down a full temp master defender to the point where im starting to get the edge. A Master rifleman either kills him in 3min or dies right away. I have to work my ass off for these kills! Not to mention 9 out of 10 of them result in me fighting for 45+ min and then i die.
well no offence then but u kinda suck, CM owns jedi right now why do u think every damn BH has it?
its not support at all again why BH have it
its basicly pure offence with the ability to heal like a jedi while you've DoT'd there ass's anyway
the only jedi prof that has a chance against CM's right now is powers because we have a few good DoT's to hit back with.
nearly all CM BH thathavehunted down friends of mine have won (these are not noob jedi either but some of the best on the server)
as someone said u get uber buffs and even more uber Debuffs, i should know i have CM as a toon.
see combat medic shoudl be the following
a medic that helps out its comraids on battle. i think the guy even says when u train "i can teach u how to put your mates arm back on in the battle field" or something along those lines, not "i can teach u how to become so uber u will never need to put anyones arm back on apart from the ones u just destroyed hunting"
/rantoff
Goshawk Dark Jedi 
White-Scar MBH 
White Scar Elite founder and leader
YoBobby
Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:40 pm
#24
Ialwysdie wrote:
The nerf calls need to stop.
You talk about CM being too powerful. If a player with only MCM came after you they would probably die as they wouldn't have the damage output.
Now MCM/BH is different story but that's a template not a profession.
Because of that there will never be balance in this game. MCM is effective but ony with the help of another profession. If you could easily say that the BH side of the template deals out too much damage in relation to healing ability or debuff abiity.
Certain templates will have the edge over others and if you tweak one skill in a profession you end up nerfing an entire template combinations and possibly make others more powerful at the same time.
It may be easy to balance 1 singel profession against another single profession. But it's near impossible to balance multiple profession combinations against other multiple profession combinations.
Certain Templates are going to have an edge over others and no matter how you tweak them it just changes the balance shift from one side to the other rather then equalizing it.
very very true.....1 thing a lot of SWG players dont understand.
However this is just 1 ability being asked to be toned down. They are not asking for it to be totally taken out. So if you just tone down the abilities of CM then no ones profession combinations will be rendered useless.
In my opinion healing as a whole needs to be toned down in doc and cm. It should cost much more mind then it does now.
So if they just tone down certainabilities to a balanced level i dont see how it would cause an entire template to me nerfed.
Antsyn
Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:56 pm
#25
wow according to some guy in the CM forum 10m is well within melee range for lightsabers 
Nazarath_
Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:25 pm
#26
CM does not need a nerf I am a jedi and I have a MCM/BH alt (with all the ca and aa) and I lose more than I win. With my jedi I am able to beat most MCM/BH that come for me. Yes a MCM has all the debuffs and heals but it comes at a cost. It takes alot of mind to be able to do the heals and debuffs. So lets stop calling for nerfs