Jedi Archive
Thread: State of SWG... (not an attack on SOE/devs)
LangaNor wrote:
I know, I know... soooooo many of these posts, it gets a little annoying. I've been playing for over a year now, and I've lived with my friends through all the changes, all the forum revolts, all the profession "adjustments"... and in the end, to quote on of my fave movies "It's not the end of the world"... I'd like to respond to a few of the "issues" that have popped up, and hopefully some peeps can back me up on this (because I hope there are more people like me on here).
1. The Starter Kit. So what if it's a new way to engage first time players, allowing them to sample SWG offline, and level through quests (because of obvious game mechanics resons), and they offer Jedi as a starting prof (because 30 lvls isn't enough to reach Jedi) so that new players get a chance to get hooked, like we have?? Who cares, it makes sense to me.
2. The Jedi "nerfs". Well, let's face it, we're all paddies, right? Until FRS returns and allows us to progress, we'll get more power. Can't wait that long? Mad because you can't read license agreements? Nobody's fault/problem but your own. I remember reading that chages will be made to the game, without need of a notice, and if you agree you're bound by those rules... Standard product contract, no biggie. The /cancel button isn't hard to find.
3. The "nothing in this game works" argument. Well, I've been hunting with my guild for weeks now, we've gained 33% of new membership within a month, and we're putting on tons of RP activities to add content where we find it lacking. Stuff's broken? Ok. So what... ALOT OF STUFF WORKS!!! The hunting works, space works, most quests work, my house is stil standing, my bike is still moving, my friend's are stil online, and I'm stil having fun.
4. The Devs are not out to get us... Please, think about it. Paranoia pops up when people want it to. Its like anything else, if you think the devs are out to screw Jedi, then everything that happens will "prove your point", and everytime you get a straight answer from anyone, you'll put it into question (ex.: Starter kit and Tiggs' response... Nothing cryptical, Amazon.com had the wrong product description. And if LA or SOE are planning to release a product, and they have a scheduled release date, or a scheduled date of initial advertisement, what's makes anybody believe that they should disregard that because of a few high strung peeps on some obscure forums... C'mon, for real, let's think about these things.
I don;t mean to get anyone all riled up, I just think that people on the forums get bent out of shape over spilled milk. Nothing's been done to you personally. And in this fine world we live in, democracy is a powerful tool, and your vote is your dollar. Don't like the direction SWG is taking? There's always other games you could play. Don't want to play any other game? Well then, you have some thinking to do...
Love and kisses to all, I'm still in love with SWG, and if that makes me a "dev brown noser", so be it.
See y'all inside!
Message Edited by LangaNor on 11-01-2005 07:33 AM
Not to flame but.......
LangaNor wrote:
I know, I know... soooooo many of these posts, it gets a little annoying. I've been playing for over a year now, and I've lived with my friends through all the changes, all the forum revolts, all the profession "adjustments"... and in the end, to quote on of my fave movies "It's not the end of the world"... I'd like to respond to a few of the "issues" that have popped up, and hopefully some peeps can back me up on this (because I hope there are more people like me on here).1. The Starter Kit. So what if it's a new way to engage first time players, allowing them to sample SWG offline, and level through quests (because of obvious game mechanics resons), and they offer Jedi as a starting prof (because 30 lvls isn't enough to reach Jedi) so that new players get a chance to get hooked, like we have?? Who cares, it makes sense to me.2. The Jedi "nerfs". Well, let's face it, we're all paddies, right? Until FRS returns and allows us to progress, we'll get more power. Can't wait that long? Mad because you can't read license agreements? Nobody's fault/problem but your own. I remember reading that chages will be made to the game, without need of a notice, and if you agree you're bound by those rules... Standard product contract, no biggie. The /cancel button isn't hard to find.3. The "nothing in this game works" argument. Well, I've been hunting with my guild for weeks now, we've gained 33% of new membership within a month, and we're putting on tons of RP activities to add content where we find it lacking. Stuff's broken? Ok. So what... ALOT OF STUFF WORKS!!! The hunting works, space works, most quests work, my house is stil standing, my bike is still moving, my friend's are stil online, and I'm stil having fun.4. The Devs are not out to get us... Please, think about it. Paranoia pops up when people want it to. Its like anything else, if you think the devs are out to screw Jedi, then everything that happens will "prove your point", and everytime you get a straight answer from anyone, you'll put it into question (ex.: Starter kit and Tiggs' response... Nothing cryptical, Amazon.com had the wrong product description. And if LA or SOE are planning to release a product, and they have a scheduled release date, or a scheduled date of initial advertisement, what's makes anybody believe that they should disregard that because of a few high strung peeps on some obscure forums... C'mon, for real, let's think about these things.I don;t mean to get anyone all riled up, I just think that people on the forums get bent out of shape over spilled milk. Nothing's been done to you personally. And in this fine world we live in, democracy is a powerful tool, and your vote is your dollar. Don't like the direction SWG is taking? There's always other games you could play. Don't want to play any other game? Well then, you have some thinking to do...Love and kisses to all, I'm still in love with SWG, and if that makes me a "dev brown noser", so be it.See y'all inside!Message Edited by LangaNor on 11-01-2005 07:33 AM
Very well said. Allow me to comment:
1) I agree totally. An offline version of SWG is just that. As long as it STAYS that, then all is good and it remains a seperate game.
2) A game is no fun when the rules change so radically from month to month that an adjustment period is necessary just to play. Sweeping radical changes are NEVER good for a player base, and causes nothing but issues. The "Game play may change" clause is for the ESRB rating, and has nothing to do with player satisfaction. Using the "we're all paddies" excuse is just that, an excuse. There is a level of expectation placed on Jedi from StarWars cannon that CANNOT BE IGNORED. The biggest problem is that said sweeping radical changes have done NOTHING to IMPROVE the Jedi profession.
Some changes are worth it. SquadLeader and Ranger needed it. HOWEVER, the total ignorance the DEVS have shown towards what said changes will do to the game is staggering. As soon as the SL changes were published, the community told the DEVs EXACTLY how it would effect the live game. They ignored us. They ignored Beta testers, and Test Center testers under the guise of "we have to see how it plays out on live".. reguardless of the fact that WE TOLD THEM EXACTLY HOW IT WOULD (and were right).
3) You're right. There is a LOT of stuff that works perfectly. But, as a LaunchDay+1 vet, I can tell you.. I am so VERY tired of the little bugs that have been in existances from the day I started, have been fixed only to be unfixed two patches later then ignored for months. There is no consistancy in coding with these people.
4) Yes, the paranoia is really high. But can you blame people? With a total communications black out, nothing but paranoia remains. A good example: Jedi action/force costs. Shortly after the CU, they were lowered. There was much rejoicing [sic?]. With this expanstion, they were raised.. with NO accompaning reason. We're just told to suck it up and move on. Doc/CM/Medic heals were fixed early on too (while lowering the effectivness of Jedi healing). With the expansion, they were raised without warning or reason. They complained... THE CHANGE WAS REMOVED. All that does is feed paranoia. Constant nerfs to Jedi w/o a single fix, while other professions get continious boosts, and NOTHING comes down from the DEVs as to WHY.. and you question why people are paranoid? Or even better, how about the DEV who, in his personal time, reconized the plight of the Bounty Hunter and fixed NPC missions (seemingly at will w/o the need for producer approval). HUGE boost to BH's all because he found that the missions "sucked". Yet we can't even get an update on 1 of our top 5 issues from these people??
I've been here for 2+ years. I've played this game through all it's stages. I have never left, or threatened to leave. I understand that changes happen. I watch as they do them, and adjust as I need to. But a line has to be drawn somewhere, and it's getting closer and closer.
We're watching as hotfix after hotfix goes into place, but not a single post on why they're allowing over-powered medic heals, squadleader buffs (NOBODY SHOULD EVER BE 1-SHOTTED, PERIOD), the return to mind-bar focused combat, overpowered armor, and uber weapons... all of which should not exist post-CU as the design docs stated. It's a little more than just "spilled milk", we're talking SERIOUS contridictions to published design requirements going ignored, professions being changed so drastically that you need a new manual just to figure out how to play your character when you log in after a patch day, and total DEV disreguard for player concerns.
LangaNor wrote:
if your guild fell apart because it didn't like CU, don't blame SOE or SWG, because the pattern doesn't apply to every guild. Why not just rebuild, adjust, adapt... or find something better to do.As Ebonfire so eloquently put it, that's life!
There was a petition with over 10,000 signatures, and a forum full of flames. SOE knew what was to follow for many vets when they pushed the CU. I don't know why you get off trivializing they way people have been disfranchised from being able to play the game that they liked, and knew. You makethink the game is fine, but manypeople (who are idiots by default in your opinion) disagree. The game doesn'teven remotelyresemble what it was in the past, and I applaud everyonewho "cries and whines" about thegame for taking a stand for what they believe is right. Atleast there is hope for all these criers and whiners.. they are not tools who just lay down to the man and take it in the behind without putting up a fight.
Props to everyone who quit, my 3rd and last account is on its way out.. all the tools can have the game. Enjoy.
"but manypeople (who are idiots by default in your opinion)" - Hey, I'm in here for normal discussion, and I've done my best not to attack anyone, and this is the only reference to a personal attack that I will make. You don't like my opinion, fine... Don't assume that you can put words in my mouth.
Its strange that there's a pattern developing from these rsponses. Seems people who have been here "long enough" attack my opinion, or try to invalidate it, because I wasn't here at launch. I've did my Jedi grind pre AND post CU, and yes, I did see the difference. I was there when Combat xp went 30:1, I was there when CU gave 2 weeks of 2X xp and we saw glowies getting paddy instantly, I was there when all the "vets" talked down to post-CU Jedi because, according to some comments in this thread even, if you're not from pre-Pub 9, you're not a "true Jedi"... If some of you are bitter that you've been ignored, and nerfed, and kept out of the loop, and insulted for the last 2 years, why are you here?
The main argument seems to be that since you've been promised fixes/let down for all this time, you've come to expect shady treatment from SOE... This, as you say, has been happening for OVER1 YEAR!!! And you're still here! Do you understand what I'm getting at? Why blame SOE? You know the customer service is in the toilets, you hate the state of the game since pretty much May of 2005 (that's 6 MONTHS!), and your guild has emptied out... SO WHY STAY AND COMPLAIN (or as has been said, "not giving up without a fight").
All I'm saying is that some of us try to just have fun, and it perplexes me that you would get so emotionally/personally involved in what is, in fact, just a video game. If it's the friends that hold you here, go to a chat room, or join another game? I just think that if you are not the type of person to be able to put up with SWG as is, what's the purpose of the game for you, why stick it out until the game eventually dies out?
Don't flame me, don't take my comments as attacks or trolling... Simple discussion folks, there's no reason to get angry. Anyway, I assume that the game will eventually get better, I may be wrong. If I am, I will eventually re-evaluate my need for this online community and make my choice based on that.
Again, much love to you,
Can't remember how long I've been playing but you can rest assured I still enjoy the game, I still travel around and find new and unusual things that I never knew were in game.
I agree with the beginning statements made by the thread creator.
LangaNor wrote:
yes, that year old date beside my name must be hacked...
is there a rule in these forums that we don't allow anything remotely positive or hopeful? Am I the only person who posts on forums that can see both sides of the coin? I don't want to start an argument, but maybe this is a good time to evaluate why you play this game.
but hey bud, keep the sarcasm coming, I'm sure it'll help.
Hugs and kisses!
I agree with you whole heartedly. People seem to thrive on the doom and gloom in these forums. When you post anything other than that expect to be flamed by the trolls. Excellent post and don't worry not everyone is negative, it just seems that way
All that I will say is that SOE is very lucky to have players like the OP still playing this game.
I'm done for now.
I'm done with the accursed changes they made to the Combat System, the absolute destruction of the Entertainer professions and almost complete annihilation of Crafters.
And as far as Jedi is concerned, what SOE has done to Jedi is akin to what Anakin did to the Jedi padawan children in Ep. 3.
Ultimately, SOE has lost sight of all of the critical aspects to game development. It stopped listening to the player base a looooooong time ago with the advent of the CU. It continues to play dumb with respect to the absence of a GCW and the FRS and management is so remarkably out of touch with reality that they actually think the game is good because some people are playing it.
Not really sure who is more incompetent now. LA or SOE. It is inconceivable to me that anyone who loves the mythos and mythology of Star Wars and zealously guards licensing rightswould not put their proverbial foot down on the neck of SOE and put the game back on track. I must assume therefore that LAis just out to make its quick buckand move on.
Tumeric74 wrote:
tolenpoe wrote:
Wow...you must be new
/qfe lol
qfe x2
LangaNor wrote:
1. The Starter Kit. So what if it's a new way to engage first time players, allowing them to sample SWG offline, and level through quests (because of obvious game mechanics resons), and they offer Jedi as a starting prof (because 30 lvls isn't enough to reach Jedi) so that new players get a chance to get hooked, like we have?? Who cares, it makes sense to me.
Because people worked for Jedi putting months of hologrinding or village grinding to unlock jedi. Time that could have been spent doing other things, funner things. Its like throwing out the time the now jedi invested in making it there. Not to mention that the jedi population. It will also make the village useless (unless you do it for the rewards) unless the new jedi get to choose where to put those 24 skill points, or if they dont have to spend them on those FS trees, which will, needless to say, piss off a lot of jedi.
2. The Jedi "nerfs". Well, let's face it, we're all paddies, right? Until FRS returns and allows us to progress, we'll get more power. Can't wait that long? Mad because you can't read license agreements? Nobody's fault/problem but your own. I remember reading that chages will be made to the game, without need of a notice, and if you agree you're bound by those rules... Standard product contract, no biggie. The /cancel button isn't hard to find.
Yeah, im sorry. It is my fault that theFRSisnt working. Im gonna come clean. The day before the CU release, i got a little drunk and um...I got a little violent, and i took it out on the FRS. I hit it with force lightning, and cut its legs and arms off with my saber. Well, long story short, its in a coma, and the devs expect me to fix it,which is also why sabers have elemental damage and cantcut through armor, and why thewhole speed "bug" is inplay.because like you said: its my fault.
3. The "nothing in this game works" argument. Well, I've been hunting with my guild for weeks now, we've gained 33% of new membership within a month, and we're putting on tons of RP activities to add content where we find it lacking. Stuff's broken? Ok. So what... ALOT OF STUFF WORKS!!! The hunting works, space works, most quests work, my house is stil standing, my bike is still moving, my friend's are stil online, and I'm stil having fun.
You can only hunt for so long until you're annoyed with it, space gets boring a little after you get master, and questingmost of the timeinvolves NPC activities, which leads to visibility, which leads to a BH rifle up your *cash and prizes* and I dont know about your server, but mine is pretty much a ghost town.
4. The Devs are not out to get us... Please, think about it. Paranoia pops up when people want it to. Its like anything else, if you think the devs are out to screw Jedi, then everything that happens will "prove your point", and everytime you get a straight answer from anyone, you'll put it into question (ex.: Starter kit and Tiggs' response... Nothing cryptical, Amazon.com had the wrong product description. And if LA or SOE are planning to release a product, and they have a scheduled release date, or a scheduled date of initial advertisement, what's makes anybody believe that they should disregard that because of a few high strung peeps on some obscure forums... C'mon, for real, let's think about these things.
Devs not out to get us? I wonder how long you've been playing, because since the CU, I can think of a handful of reasons that would contradict that statement. There has been literally nothing good that has come out of the CU in reguards to jedi. Some may say group grinding, but that doesnt really count because jedi HAVE to grind in groups because they are that weak to take out creatures their same levels, which is why the whole group grinding was implemented in the first place, because at the start of the CU, it wasnt there.
I don;t mean to get anyone all riled up, I just think that people on the forums get bent out of shape over spilled milk. Nothing's been done to you personally. And in this fine world we live in, democracy is a powerful tool, and your vote is your dollar. Don't like the direction SWG is taking? There's always other games you could play. Don't want to play any other game? Well then, you have some thinking to do...
A lot of people have invested too much time and money building up their character (or buying it off of ebay...you know who you are...) to just throw it away, without a fight at least.
Love and kisses to all, I'm still in love with SWG, and if that makes me a "dev brown noser", so be it.
See y'all inside!
Message Edited by LangaNor on 11-01-2005 07:33 AM
Luscio wrote:
LangaNor wrote:
I know, I know... soooooo many of these posts, it gets a little annoying. I've been playing for over a year now, and I've lived with my friends through all the changes, all the forum revolts, all the profession "adjustments"... and in the end, to quote on of my fave movies "It's not the end of the world"... I'd like to respond to a few of the "issues" that have popped up, and hopefully some peeps can back me up on this (because I hope there are more people like me on here).1. The Starter Kit. So what if it's a new way to engage first time players, allowing them to sample SWG offline, and level through quests (because of obvious game mechanics resons), and they offer Jedi as a starting prof (because 30 lvls isn't enough to reach Jedi) so that new players get a chance to get hooked, like we have?? Who cares, it makes sense to me.2. The Jedi "nerfs". Well, let's face it, we're all paddies, right? Until FRS returns and allows us to progress, we'll get more power. Can't wait that long? Mad because you can't read license agreements? Nobody's fault/problem but your own. I remember reading that chages will be made to the game, without need of a notice, and if you agree you're bound by those rules... Standard product contract, no biggie. The /cancel button isn't hard to find.3. The "nothing in this game works" argument. Well, I've been hunting with my guild for weeks now, we've gained 33% of new membership within a month, and we're putting on tons of RP activities to add content where we find it lacking. Stuff's broken? Ok. So what... ALOT OF STUFF WORKS!!! The hunting works, space works, most quests work, my house is stil standing, my bike is still moving, my friend's are stil online, and I'm stil having fun.4. The Devs are not out to get us... Please, think about it. Paranoia pops up when people want it to. Its like anything else, if you think the devs are out to screw Jedi, then everything that happens will "prove your point", and everytime you get a straight answer from anyone, you'll put it into question (ex.: Starter kit and Tiggs' response... Nothing cryptical, Amazon.com had the wrong product description. And if LA or SOE are planning to release a product, and they have a scheduled release date, or a scheduled date of initial advertisement, what's makes anybody believe that they should disregard that because of a few high strung peeps on some obscure forums... C'mon, for real, let's think about these things.I don;t mean to get anyone all riled up, I just think that people on the forums get bent out of shape over spilled milk. Nothing's been done to you personally. And in this fine world we live in, democracy is a powerful tool, and your vote is your dollar. Don't like the direction SWG is taking? There's always other games you could play. Don't want to play any other game? Well then, you have some thinking to do...Love and kisses to all, I'm still in love with SWG, and if that makes me a "dev brown noser", so be it.See y'all inside!Message Edited by LangaNor on 11-01-2005 07:33 AM
Good and informative post. Only disagreement is because I hate group pve (quests) as well as group pvp. The CU has made doing anything by myself impossible. I understand the arguement of the m-"MULTI"-org, but I got sucked into swg pre-cu b/c I could do my own thing 90% of the time and then hang out with buds when a situation warranted it.Luscio
Exactly
"Because people worked for Jedi putting months of hologrinding or village grinding to unlock jedi. Time that could have been spent doing other things, funner things. Its like throwing out the time the now jedi invested in making it there. Not to mention that the jedi population. It will also make the village useless (unless you do it for the rewards) unless the new jedi get to choose where to put those 24 skill points, or if they dont have to spend them on those FS trees, which will, needless to say, piss off a lot of jedi."
Again, my point about buying a Ford... If you say that you are spending all this time (post-CU) in game, BECAUSE you've spent all this other time "investing" (like it was something tangible...) in a Jedi character, only to have it nerfed... its not logical. If I spent $25k on a car, and it keeps breaking, forcing me to spend time and money into it, I won't continue by saying "Well, I payed $25k for the car, plus 2 years worth of maintenance, and another $5k in various repairs AND Ford refuses to offer me services... God I hate this car, but I love Fords, so here goes another 2 years of maintenace and another $5k in repairs just in case they offer a callback on the engine..."
IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!! That was my original point... If you're not having fun, and its frustrating, and all your friends have left for better games, WHY STAY FOR A BRAND NAME??? Sorry for the caps, it just seems that some are missing my original point. I stay in game because I don't mind the flaws and bugs enough to stop my enjoyment of SWG. Is it perfect? Hell no! Can it get better? Easily! Do I mind waiting, even if fixes never come? Sure. But that's me...
p.s.: My SWG membership was active on October 26th, 2004... Can I be part of the cool kids club now?
I am kind of tired of the "you havent read the EULA, so you cant blame SOE" thing....
It would work if I wasnt a CUSTOMER This has nothing to do with read or not something, and everything to do with making this game better (and keeping their customers happy and stuck with it)
If I follow this line of logic, I would, tomorrow, make a fancy homepage, promissing the best MMO game of all times, with everything you dreamed and more, and then make everyone sign an EULA in which I say "the environment and experience may change", and put a text MUD instead to everyone play, and then someone can come and say "Well, they are right!! You havent read the EULA? The environment may change!!! And it has!!!", and keep paying for the game because, hey, its not the dev team's fault, its my fault I have signed the damn thing!!! So, just what I can do is keep paying for it!! Damn, they got me!!!! (sorry, if I am not that stupid, to eat an argument in which I must be content with a crappy game only because they told me that *maybe* the game could be or became crappy). I am customer, I pay the game to be improved, not the contrary.
The point is the nerfs are making this game unbeareble to Jedis, the game is becaming worst, and worst and claiming "hahahaahha, you havent read the little letters!!!" do not help in making me a happy customer, in contrary.
I just wonder, if the dev team responsible for the Jedis are the same who proposed the divided xp and are the responsible for Jabba's Place. It seens very likely because I see a pattern in here... (OH MY GOD, SOE HAS HIRED THE JACKASS CREW TO DEVELOP THE JEDIS AND FRS!!!!!)
It would work if I wasnt a CUSTOMER This has nothing to do with read or not something, and everything to do with making this game better (and keeping their customers happy and stuck with it)
If I follow this line of logic, I would, tomorrow, make a fancy homepage, promissing the best MMO game of all times, with everything you dreamed and more, and then make everyone sign an EULA in which I say "the environment and experience may change", and put a text MUD instead to everyone play, and then someone can come and say "Well, they are right!! You havent read the EULA? The environment may change!!! And it has!!!", and keep paying for the game because, hey, its not the dev team's fault, its my fault I have signed the damn thing!!! So, just what I can do is keep paying for it!! Damn, they got me!!!! (sorry, if I am not that stupid, to eat an argument in which I must be content with a crappy game only because they told me that *maybe* the game could be or became crappy). I am customer, I pay the game to be improved, not the contrary.
The point is the nerfs are making this game unbeareble to Jedis, the game is becaming worst, and worst and claiming "hahahaahha, you havent read the little letters!!!" do not help in making me a happy customer, in contrary.
I just wonder, if the dev team responsible for the Jedis are the same who proposed the divided xp and are the responsible for Jabba's Place. It seens very likely because I see a pattern in here... (OH MY GOD, SOE HAS HIRED THE JACKASS CREW TO DEVELOP THE JEDIS AND FRS!!!!!)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
You get the bitter person of the year award! Congratulations you also get a flawed logic award too.
Look your saying,
"and keep paying for the game because, hey, its not the dev team's fault, its my fault I have signed the damn thing!!! So, just what I can do is keep paying for it!! Damn, they got me!!!! (sorry, if I am not that stupid, to eat an argument in which I must be content with a crappy game only because they told me that *maybe* the game could be or became crappy)."
Are you really that niave? C'mon. You mean to tell me that your are surprised and dissappointed that a corporate conglomerate cares more about new subscribers than you? Its called a free market, free enterprise. You are not forced to continue paying no matter how much money or time you have already put into this GAME. You are free to leave, albiet upset and dissapointed, but nonetheles free to cancel.
Your point would be better taken if this was a cell phone company who violated their promises while you (the consumer) were under contract. YOU ARE NOT UNDER CONTRACT. Hate SOE for destroying the game you fell in love with,ok! Hate the current dev team for not having a vision and being tools, OK! But to suggest that you are stuck with a game is rediculous.
Lastly, you said "I am customer, I pay the game to be improved, not the contrary." Sorry to break it to you, but you pay to have the right to play whatever it is they decide to publish and YOUR expectations (same as mine) is that we HOPE the game continues to improve. When/if SWG reaches a point where the product is unacceptable, you have the right to vote with your pocketbook and cancel.