Jedi Archive

I appreciate all of the posts, but I would like to see the details on it. Yes MLS has more attacks, but other than the ranged KD do those attacks really give you the upperhand against a BH. I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

My LS is 716, SAC 100, and a speed of 1.49 with MDef. The question is I take less damage than a MLS, and my calculations show that my speed will only increase to 1.39 and my damage will increase a 100points and this is with Improved Aura running.

As for BH fights, I have only lost to one bounty hunter, and they are the best on the server with the MCM MBH combination. They have their fight dialed in perfectly with armor, dots, and debuffs that only a MHealer could beat them.I just want to know the details before I switch because I don't want to have to regrind MDEF again = 8 million Jedi XP.

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MasterMith wrote:

Can anyone tell me why MLS is better than MDef....at least when you compare it this way:

mdef, ls -444

mls, def 444-

I just don't understand., I only hit slightly faster, but i take alot more damage. I did a test with a buddy and we have very comparable sabers,

AS a Mdef I would have 627 dmage for a power hit, no aura or foods

As a MLS and DEF 4440 he would get 750points of damage.

I am not sure if my testing is vailid but it seems MLS is still not good

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if u get MLS, get def 4x44, i hear ranged ef only works if u have a ranged weapon equiped, not if ur being attacked by one. This is new news i guess, i just learned abot it 2 days ago.

I could be wrong, but i was told that is how ranged def works

yeah but with Def 4x44 you lose out on a bit of innate armor and a bit more defense for valor.

444x would be better I think.

Since even with MLS and valor you don't really block that much more. Atleast it seems that way to me.

Ok I will take a shot at this. I have posted on this topic before but I always enjoy posting about this specific topic post-CU.

The facts are

Master LS (def 4/4/4/0) offers:

55 more accuracy then (0/4/4/4)

45 more speec then (0/4/4/4)

ranged kd at 1.9 damage mod (where as improved saber throw has no KD and is 1.7damage mod)

You get a second area attack dervish.

You get all the state attacks.

Master Defender (saber 0/4/4/4) offers:

+25 saber block for total of 45 (valor)

+85 melee defense more (same ranged def also)

+1600 armor totaling 7000 for a 52.5 and a 18 after AB (where as def 4/4/4/0 offers 44.5 and a 15.5 after AB)

AI for slow death in PvP and ultra high end PvE tanking

In conclusion, since you are missing 55 accuracy and 45 speed, if you cap on CA's you are the same as a master LS so that makes (0/4/4/4) much appreciated since it frees up 21 skill points. But a master LS with capped CA's would miss a lot less and would overcome any master Def defenses.

For PvP I agree that Master LS is pretty good, but the thing is, that nowaday pvp is never a 1 on 1 situation thats why you always hear about how good the jedi with AI are.

So the facts are here. Master LS can be reproduced if you cap on CA's, then master defeder is desirable, otherwise it sucks having a power attack miss.

For Jedi vs Jedi Master LS will be better I find. But for overall gameplay Master Defender is better I find.

The choice is yours. But I admit, its hard to decide.

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Veng3fulSaint wrote:

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Jediknight2k1 wrote:

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MasterMith wrote:

Can anyone tell me why MLS is better than MDef....at least when you compare it this way:

mdef, ls -444

mls, def 444-

I just don't understand., I only hit slightly faster, but i take alot more damage. I did a test with a buddy and we have very comparable sabers,

AS a Mdef I would have 627 dmage for a power hit, no aura or foods

As a MLS and DEF 4440 he would get 750points of damage.

I am not sure if my testing is vailid but it seems MLS is still not good

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MLS kills things and MDef doesnt. MLS 444- Def is a very nice combo.

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Well said

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Not really, look at sports for instance, the best "offence" is a good "defence". You can't kill if you are dying or dead.

This discussion comes down to how good of a saber you have. I have a perfect saber, I hit fast and hard enough to allow me to have 0400 sabers and Mdef and do very well. It is up to you but the decision comes down to how your saber is.

Saber 700+max damage, 1.25 speed or better= Go Mdef

Saber 700 and less, 1.25+= Go MLS

Message Edited by Manna on 10-07-2005 05:34 PM

best template is mdef/ mhealer and enhancer 0440

kyho your logic is straight up dumb

This is a pretty interesting discussion, and something I've thought about for a while.

Skywall is correct, if you have maxed tapes, you can be nearly the same as a MLS with only 3 LS branches as far as speed and acc go. You'll only be missing a couple specials and the ranged KD, but you still have more then enough for a solid offense.

If you have a maxed suit and a top notch saber, Mdef may be the way to go.

For those without the maxed suit and top notch saber, MLS with 4440 defender is still pretty dang good.

Dont know about everyone else but maxing a suit is pretty tough on my server. Good tapes are few and far between on auction, and its a very very very rare day when you see anything with general melee speed/accuracy. (last one I saw was 2 weeks ago... instantly bought out). My saber is decent with Pre CU pearls, but without a suit, Im sticking with MLS for now.... some guys are hard enough to hit even with MLS.

It also depends on your play style and who youre going up against as to which is better (sorta a canned response, I know). In one on one situations MLS/ 4440 defender has never done me wrong, and BHs arent much trouble.Mass pvp of course depends on the role you play... obviously a Mdef has an advantage when several people are hitting them, making them perfect for front line tanks. My template suits real well as an interceptor / flanker type role, which happens to be more to my liking anyway.

So who knows, maybe one day Ill max a suit and give Mdef a whirl, but for now, its MLS/4440 defender for me.

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MasterMith wrote:

Can anyone tell me why MLS is better than MDef....at least when you compare it this way:

mdef, ls -444

mls, def 444-

I just don't understand., I only hit slightly faster, but i take alot more damage. I did a test with a buddy and we have very comparable sabers,

AS a Mdef I would have 627 dmage for a power hit, no aura or foods

As a MLS and DEF 4440 he would get 750points of damage.

I am not sure if my testing is vailid but it seems MLS is still not good

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i had take MLS anyday

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DW-Acer wrote:

no one ever killed a BH with MDef.

want my very simplistic approach?

PvP=MLS, PvE=MDef

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Are you kidding ?

I am master def, 0444 saber, with enh and heal and BHs are a joke.

As are most master sabers guys i fight. If you get some gen melee tapes and a good saber, defender is far better

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MasterMith wrote:

Can anyone tell me why MLS is better than MDef....at least when you compare it this way:

mdef, ls -444

mls, def 444-

I just don't understand., I only hit slightly faster, but i take alot more damage. I did a test with a buddy and we have very comparable sabers,

AS a Mdef I would have 627 dmage for a power hit, no aura or foods

As a MLS and DEF 4440 he would get 750points of damage.

I am not sure if my testing is vailid but it seems MLS is still not good

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Get master lightsaber

With MLS you deal damage faster, you kill faster, you take less hits for more damage.
With M Def you deal damage slower, you kill slower, you take more hits for less damage.
In pvp if you are able to overpower your opponent with fast damage you can force them into a healing cycle which will allow you to focus entirely on offence and bypass the limitations of your lesser defences and not waste force on heals.