Jedi Archive

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Shender wrote:


Very true about the devs. The whole idea behind releasing something new is to make sure the user can't use it for another action/whatever (look at programming input for something; you have to make sure that they enter the proper thing). But the blame is shared partly with the players that exploited it because obviously they just couldn't control themselves. I usually don't support group punishment (I'm always on the wrong end of it in swimming), but this might be one of those times to just demonstrate that using something for the wrong purposes=bad results.

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Very valid point, and one we should all remember. Just because the Devs screw up with a skill doesn't mean we need to exploit it until it's nerfed to oblivion and then some. In an ideal world this would be the case, but there are always those out to get a little bit more for themselves, so they exploit, and then everybody else has to go ahead and do it too, because they see how much success the exploiters are getting. The only way exploits can be trully avoided is if the Devs don't make them possible in the first place.

Message Edited by MsNiL on 09-24-2005 12:28 AM

I am alwayswith you MsNil and whatever you says or means!

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BukuJohnson wrote:
So that means when someone goes MPowers, they will know that they will be weak because they know MPowers=weak.

So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.
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It really isn't that simple. Mpowers was not supposed to be weak after the CU. Many people were Mpowers before the CU and stuck with the game for months longer than they would have because they were told it would be improved. As for post CU Mpowers Jedi I think that a great deal of them were drawn into the profession with the "It will be a viable alternative to Sabers", and "Powers is a mid range damage dealer" statements.

For a good number of us the Mpowers template represents the Imperial faction we are a part of IG. In the old FRS it was the discipline that had the most benefits for an Imperial player. At the begining of the CU it looked like there was hope for us after all. We were not the greatest vs other Jedi but we held out hope that changes were afoot based on posts from Songuki and Tanks. It wasn't until they started their nerf cycles that we really started getting hosed. The increased timers, the increased action costs, the revamp of Cloak, the increase in non Jedi healing, these are all things that are progressively taking the discipline down the tubes.

As for changing the template I want all of you to ask yourself how many millions and millions of Jedi xp do you want to grind each month because SOE keeps changing our profession. I mean look at all of the nerfs to us since the CU. I have already done an additional 12mil of xp since the CU for changes they made to Jedi, and that does not even count what I would have to do if I dropped Mpowers.


At some point they need to have a product we can all play and enjoy without aprehension every time a patch is announced. The sooner they have things where they want them to be the faster we can all focus on an increased developement cycle for new content. Until then I am not going to spend all of my time grinding out working templates from one nerf to the next.


Buku
Naritus

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I will give you that. The Devs did screw up on Powers and their classification of it. But more and more I think of it, it would appear that Powers has become a debuffing (think mage (or is it warlock?)) class. And I will also fully agree with you on the count of how the Devs SHOULD make something and keep it that way. Changing stuff on people midway doesn't make anyone happy.

They need to revamp Powers to make it somehow balanced, but Jedi need to decide on how to do this. Someone should come out with their idea of Powers (include trees/boxes/specials/descriptions/damage/etc.)... But the Devs may not even care. It seems like ToW is the only thing on their minds... Tsk tsk... They shall never learn why the community isn't that happy...

Edit: Small change about great->happy

Message Edited by Shender on 09-23-2005 05:29 PM

just me 2 cents.....this isnt WOW, this is SWG...thats half our problems, the new devs r EQ clones

and to the guy who said WOW is more succesful than SWg, this game has been out of r 3 years, lets see how many r playin WOW in 2 years

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MsNiL wrote:

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Shender wrote:
So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.

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Becouse to many players it's more about style and feel than numbers.

If I did not want the option to define my own character the way I want to play it, I could as well play Diablo.

Message Edited by MsNiL on 09-24-2005 12:28 AM

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I won't deny you that, but like I said, you have to choose what you want. Rangers PreCU sounded like such a fun class to play-only problem was that you didn't gain anything for combat in it. It might have been a ton of fun, but it just didn't work out because its drawbacks were too great. You must decide if MPowers is too big of a drawback to have. It may be totally awesome effects-wise or RP-wise, but performance-wise, it isn't.

Unless, of course, they bring out a powers revamp... someone could go ahead and post their idea on a skill tree for powers *hint hint*...

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magneto2 wrote:

just me 2 cents.....this isnt WOW, this is SWG...thats half our problems, the new devs r EQ clones

and to the guy who said WOW is more succesful than SWg, this game has been out of r 3 years, lets see how many r playin WOW in 2 years

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Of course we'll see in 2 years, but just look at WoW... a major patch (1.6->1.7) is an expansion pack in SWG. They constantly release new content and things to do. Heck, one publish in SWG might add ONE quest, but in WoW, one patch might includes tens of quests, new instances, etc.

But just check out the numbers at this place. Check 120k+...

all im sayin is when SWG came it ruled the market as well....and i dont want to me a rogue or a mage, i want to be a bad a$$ Mpowers!!!!

>

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magneto2 wrote:

all im sayin is when SWG came it ruled the market as well....and i dont want to me a rogue or a mage, i want to be a bad a$$ Mpowers!!!!

>

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When SWG came out, it did rule. It was quite the talk of the town so to speak. Unforunately, it has degraded... a lot. If only they added new caves, new quests (and lots of them), new instances (instead of Kashyyyk and the Vette)... PvP that meant something... PvE that meant something other than having your faction in the major cities of that planet...

well, if u like WOW go play it...lol....i for one am i only here cuz im a SW fan (which is why most of us put up with so much)

Yeah, the only reason I'm here is because of those movies George Lucas made. It certainly has nothing to do with anything SOE has done.

Same here man. I'm here because of Star Wars. If this game wasn't Star Wars, I swear, it would have died within a couple moments of its release...

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MsNiL wrote:

I thought I should put my point of view on this subject.

So there's a new code for invisible players. I understand the reasons behind it and streamlining is good.

However, right now the entire Force Powers Skillset is not balanced with the new rules added in the Combat Upgrade, and investing in the skillset "Master Powers" is therefore very unrewarding and unbalanced. Cloak is frankly the only remaining power in the entire skillset that makes it rewarding, and it's also currently their only means of survival unless the skillset is replanned and recoded into a new design.

So adding a new code that makes Cloak less worth it right now is a horrible insult against thoose players who instead of taking the best of the best, picked Powers for fun and for roleplaying reasons.

My suggestion is that the new code for Force Cloak is not published right now, or if needed, it's published without the "snare" component for now.

Master Powers have nothing to do with the Ranger Revamp. Do not in any way reduce the usefulness of the Cloak power until there's enough time to take a look at and recode the entire skillset, balancing the entire skillset according to the new rules, against other Jedi, against Bounty Hunters, and against the rest of the game.

Only when people can say that 4000 0400 0040 0004 and master force powers is rewarding and fun to play it's ok to make invisibility work like the rest as a part of a complete revamp.

Do not do to Powers like you did to Healer, and frankly stop nerfing Jedi professions before you have time to upgrade Jedi to be balanced to the Combat Upgrade.

Message Edited by MsNiL on 09-24-2005 12:30 AM

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I have no problems with them cleaning up their code, so long as they do it right. Unfortunately our developer team has a very bad history of doing things like this. They make a major change in some area of the game, but fail to simultaneous release counterbalancing changes in other areas which are indirectly effected . This creates weeks and sometimes months of broken skills, and unplayable professions.

To be fair, sometimes the effect of even small changes to the system are very hard to predict. (specially without extensive beta testing). In this case however we know exactly what is going to happen if they release this without giving powers a boost.


I know that everyone is getting desperate, and is suggesting to switch cloak to Master, so they would not be effected by this. The problem however is not where it is on the tree. Aura2, Heal4000, FA2 are all very powerful skill and are all in that 4th tier box. (Unless you want to switch choke for cloak in Master's box ).. Moving cloak to master would not solve any of the current issues people have with cloak in any case.

They made a decision to update the stealth code, and I assure you they will not keep the old version of cloak no matter how much we scream. Our correspondent has two reasonable choices:

a) Don't fight the cloak change, but make sure that powers gets something really good in return AT THE TIME OF THIS PUBLISH.

b) Fight against the snare. (since this is what most people have problems with)Get devs to add an exception to the new code that excludes cloak from being snared.