Jedi Archive
Thread: Hold the upgraded cloak code until...
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MsNiL
Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:28 pm
#1
I thought I should put my point of view on this subject.
So there's a new code for invisible players. I understand the reasons behind it andstreamlining is good.
However, right now the entire Force Powers Skillset is not balanced with the new rules added in the Combat Upgrade, and investing in the skillset "Master Powers" is therefore very unrewarding and unbalanced. Cloak is frankly the only remaining power in the entire skillset that makes it rewarding, and it's also currently their only means of survival unless the skillset is replanned and recoded into a new design.
So adding a new code that makes Cloak less worth it right now is a horrible insult against thoose players who instead of taking the best of the best, picked Powers for fun and for roleplaying reasons.
My suggestion is that the new code for Force Cloak is not published right now, or if needed, it's published without the "snare" component for now.
Master Powers have nothing to do with the Ranger Revamp. Do not in any way reduce the usefulness of the Cloak power untilthere's enough time to take a look at and recode the entire skillset, balancing the entire skillset according to the new rules, against other Jedi, against Bounty Hunters, and against the rest of the game.
Only when people can say that 4000 0400 0040 0004 and master force powers is rewarding and fun to play it's ok to make invisibility work like the rest as a part of a complete revamp.
Do not do to Powers like you did to Healer, and frankly stop nerfing Jedi professions before you have time to upgrade Jedi to be balanced to the Combat Upgrade.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 09-24-2005 12:30 AM
Star-Crusher
Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:33 pm
#2
So true, but it'll never happen. What STILL to this day gets me is that jedi are not and never have been balanced for the CU. They seem to just ignore when it's pointed out though.
Shender
Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:48 pm
#5
Ok, let me get some things straight...
Everyone says MPowers is super weak. Alright, so we have established MPowers=weak.
If anyone reads the forums, they know this.
So that means when someone goes MPowers, they will know that they will be weak because they know MPowers=weak.
So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.
Anyway, I do agree that Powers deserve a revamp as most of their skills are pretty much useless (choke is, however, awesome). But there is no way you can stop the cloak nerf. People just cloaking through DWB/Vette and looting... People just healing others in PvP while cloaked... Cloakers nerfed themselves with the improper use of their skill. It should be an escape mechanism or a first strike mechanism as said by the devs. It really is tough luck.
And besides, when do you actually think this Ranger/cloak revamp thing will come out? They screwed up Pub24 and haven't even released it again to TC. That was for SL. Pub 25 for Ranger? When do you think that will be? November? Seriously, some Jedi just need to put things in perspective and analyze these things.
Everyone says MPowers is super weak. Alright, so we have established MPowers=weak.
If anyone reads the forums, they know this.
So that means when someone goes MPowers, they will know that they will be weak because they know MPowers=weak.
So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.
Anyway, I do agree that Powers deserve a revamp as most of their skills are pretty much useless (choke is, however, awesome). But there is no way you can stop the cloak nerf. People just cloaking through DWB/Vette and looting... People just healing others in PvP while cloaked... Cloakers nerfed themselves with the improper use of their skill. It should be an escape mechanism or a first strike mechanism as said by the devs. It really is tough luck.
And besides, when do you actually think this Ranger/cloak revamp thing will come out? They screwed up Pub24 and haven't even released it again to TC. That was for SL. Pub 25 for Ranger? When do you think that will be? November? Seriously, some Jedi just need to put things in perspective and analyze these things.
Katalisha
Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:52 pm
#6
Shender wrote:
Ok, let me get some things straight...
Everyone says MPowers is super weak. Alright, so we have established MPowers=weak.
If anyone reads the forums, they know this.
So that means when someone goes MPowers, they will know that they will be weak because they know MPowers=weak.
So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.
Anyway, I do agree that Powers deserve a revamp as most of their skills are pretty much useless (choke is, however, awesome). But there is no way you can stop the cloak nerf. People just cloaking through DWB/Vette and looting... People just healing others in PvP while cloaked... Cloakers nerfed themselves with the improper use of their skill. It should be an escape mechanism or a first strike mechanism as said by the devs. It really is tough luck.
And besides, when do you actually think this Ranger/cloak revamp thing will come out? They screwed up Pub24 and haven't even released it again to TC. That was for SL. Pub 25 for Ranger? When do you think that will be? November? Seriously, some Jedi just need to put things in perspective and analyze these things.
Not everyone wants the uber leet fotm ftw template - some people like to have fun.
magneto2
Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:54 pm
#8
with cloak in the master box and un-nerfed, powers is a great temp, not weak, just first strike and pick your battles
Shender
Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:00 pm
#9
Katalisha wrote:
Shender wrote:
Ok, let me get some things straight...
Everyone says MPowers is super weak. Alright, so we have established MPowers=weak.
If anyone reads the forums, they know this.
So that means when someone goes MPowers, they will know that they will be weak because they know MPowers=weak.
So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.
Anyway, I do agree that Powers deserve a revamp as most of their skills are pretty much useless (choke is, however, awesome). But there is no way you can stop the cloak nerf. People just cloaking through DWB/Vette and looting... People just healing others in PvP while cloaked... Cloakers nerfed themselves with the improper use of their skill. It should be an escape mechanism or a first strike mechanism as said by the devs. It really is tough luck.
And besides, when do you actually think this Ranger/cloak revamp thing will come out? They screwed up Pub24 and haven't even released it again to TC. That was for SL. Pub 25 for Ranger? When do you think that will be? November? Seriously, some Jedi just need to put things in perspective and analyze these things.
Not everyone wants the uber leet fotm ftw template - some people like to have fun.
But see, there you go. You must choose one thing over the other. I know this sounds funny, but I remember PreCU when I wanted to be a Ranger for the tracking and a rifleman. Sounded like so much fun, but it just wasn't practical for my style of gaming. You have to choose what you want-be a FotM-ish type person and perform exceptionally well or be a fun template and not be up to par to that of the FotM-ish template.
It really comes down to Fun vs. Performance. Some choose fun, some choose performance, and some choose a balance. You have to decide for yourself what you want to do.
Terraval
Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:01 pm
#10
Shender wrote:
Anyway, I do agree that Powers deserve a revamp as most of their skills are pretty much useless (choke is, however, awesome). But there is no way you can stop the cloak nerf. People just cloaking through DWB/Vette and looting... People just healing others in PvP while cloaked... Cloakers nerfed themselves with the improper use of their skill. It should be an escape mechanism or a first strike mechanism as said by the devs. It really is tough luck.
In all fairness, you can never say that the skill wasnerfed by the playersin this way. It's the Devs' own fault for making a skill that can partake in what may be called an "exploit". They released an unbalanced skill into the gameplay without realising it, and now we're all suffering due to regrinding because of THEIR mistakes, not ours. The nerf was always coming, whether it was misused or not, because it can be misused in such a way. It was only a matter of time before the Devs realised this. And as for the Devs saying it was intended as a first strike mechanism, why would an MPowers WANT to enter combat in the first place? It's virtually suicide! 
It actually worked really well as an escape mechanism, but by adding the snare they ruined this skill. As a first strike skill it will be pretty useless as in Spec Forces PvP everyone is on the alert for people trying to surprise them, so all you'll really get is the first hit on an otherwise fully buffed oponent. And the enemy can always stand in the middle of a crowded city, and let's see your force hold out then while you try to sneak up on them snared. Just won't work, it can be circumvented easilly like the AI countered by stasis.
On the other hand I fully support the powers skillset being made into a viable option for combat, whilst not making it overly powerful against regular professions. Shame it'll never happen though... 
Shender
Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:11 pm
#11
Terraval wrote:
Shender wrote:
Anyway, I do agree that Powers deserve a revamp as most of their skills are pretty much useless (choke is, however, awesome). But there is no way you can stop the cloak nerf. People just cloaking through DWB/Vette and looting... People just healing others in PvP while cloaked... Cloakers nerfed themselves with the improper use of their skill. It should be an escape mechanism or a first strike mechanism as said by the devs. It really is tough luck.
In all fairness, you can never say that the skill was nerfed by the players in this way. It's the Devs' own fault for making a skill that can partake in what may be called an "exploit". They released an unbalanced skill into the gameplay without realising it, and now we're all suffering due to regrinding because of THEIR mistakes, not ours. The nerf was always coming, whether it was misused or not, because it can be misused in such a way. It was only a matter of time before the Devs realised this. And as for the Devs saying it was intended as a first strike mechanism, why would an MPowers WANT to enter combat in the first place? It's virtually suicide!It actually worked really well as an escape mechanism, but by adding the snare they ruined this skill. As a first strike skill it will be pretty useless as in Spec Forces PvP everyone is on the alert for people trying to surprise them, so all you'll really get is the first hit on an otherwise fully buffed oponent. And the enemy can always stand in the middle of a crowded city, and let's see your force hold out then while you try to sneak up on them snared. Just won't work, it can be circumvented easilly like the AI countered by stasis.On the other hand I fully support the powers skillset being made into a viable option for combat, whilst not making it overly powerful against regular professions. Shame it'll never happen though...
Very true about the devs. The whole idea behind releasing something new is to make sure the user can't use it for another action/whatever (look at programming input for something; you have to make sure that they enter the proper thing). But the blame is shared partly with the players that exploited it because obviously they just couldn't control themselves. I usually don't support group punishment (I'm always on the wrong end of it in swimming), but this might be one of those times to just demonstrate that using something for the wrong purposes=bad results.
I think cloak deserves a snare, but I think their damage needs to be brought up to be made into a "rogue." They need an ambush type of attack and stuff like that. Implement that, and I'm sure the snare won't be an issue. Heck, powers won't be this super weak thing anymore if it was made into a "rouge"-ish type class.
Edit: Heck, the more I think about it, having powers as a rouge type person could really work out well I think... It may show that SWG is just coping WoW, but hey, look at WoW's success and then check out SWG's...
Message Edited by Shender on 09-23-2005 05:14 PM
Jaden-awrif
Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:19 pm
#12
Got to agree with this, tobad the devs dont care about it and nor does our Correspondent about the problems with Powers.
BukuJohnson
Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:20 pm
#13
So that means when someone goes MPowers, they will know that they will be weak because they know MPowers=weak.
So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It really isn't that simple. Mpowers was not supposed to be weak after the CU. Many people were Mpowers before the CU and stuck with the game for months longer than they would have because they were told it would be improved. As for post CU Mpowers Jedi I think that a great deal of them were drawn into the profession with the "It will be a viable alternative to Sabers", and "Powers is a mid range damage dealer" statements.
For a good number of us the Mpowers template represents the Imperial faction we are a part of IG. In the old FRS it was the discipline that had the most benefits for an Imperial player. At the begining of the CU it looked like there was hope for us after all. We were not the greatest vs other Jedi but we held out hope that changes were afoot based on posts from Songuki and Tanks. It wasn't until they started their nerf cycles that we really started getting hosed. The increased timers, the increased action costs, the revamp of Cloak, the increase in non Jedi healing, these are all things that are progressively taking the discipline down the tubes.
As for changing the template I want all of you to ask yourself how many millions and millions of Jedi xp do you want to grind each month because SOE keeps changing our profession. I mean look at all of the nerfs to us since the CU. I have already done an additional 12mil of xp since the CU for changes they made to Jedi, and that does not even count what I would have to do if I dropped Mpowers.
At some point they need to have a product we can all play and enjoy without aprehension every time a patch is announced. The sooner they have things where they want them to be the faster we can all focus on an increased developement cycle for new content. Until then I am not going to spend all of my time grinding out working templates from one nerf to the next.
Buku
Naritus
So why do people go MPowers and then complain about not being strong enough? People have to change their templates if it isn't strong enough for their liking. If you don't like MPowers, DO NOT BE MPOWERS! Simple logic really.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It really isn't that simple. Mpowers was not supposed to be weak after the CU. Many people were Mpowers before the CU and stuck with the game for months longer than they would have because they were told it would be improved. As for post CU Mpowers Jedi I think that a great deal of them were drawn into the profession with the "It will be a viable alternative to Sabers", and "Powers is a mid range damage dealer" statements.
For a good number of us the Mpowers template represents the Imperial faction we are a part of IG. In the old FRS it was the discipline that had the most benefits for an Imperial player. At the begining of the CU it looked like there was hope for us after all. We were not the greatest vs other Jedi but we held out hope that changes were afoot based on posts from Songuki and Tanks. It wasn't until they started their nerf cycles that we really started getting hosed. The increased timers, the increased action costs, the revamp of Cloak, the increase in non Jedi healing, these are all things that are progressively taking the discipline down the tubes.
As for changing the template I want all of you to ask yourself how many millions and millions of Jedi xp do you want to grind each month because SOE keeps changing our profession. I mean look at all of the nerfs to us since the CU. I have already done an additional 12mil of xp since the CU for changes they made to Jedi, and that does not even count what I would have to do if I dropped Mpowers.
At some point they need to have a product we can all play and enjoy without aprehension every time a patch is announced. The sooner they have things where they want them to be the faster we can all focus on an increased developement cycle for new content. Until then I am not going to spend all of my time grinding out working templates from one nerf to the next.
Buku
Naritus
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