Jedi Archive

Amen Brother

you need to take into account the elemental 25% of the saber min its a huge factor in PvP as it doesnt getreduced to .7 as the rest of the damage does - also saber special attack damage mods are VERY high - look at the numbers above for teh HLR and the 400-500 saber

Message Edited by MasterSheep on 08-31-2005 09:55 PM

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MasterSheep wrote:
you need to take into account the elemental 25% of the saber min its a huuge factor in PvP as it doesnt get divided by .7 as the rest of the damage does - also saber special attack damage mods are VERY high - look at the numbers above for teh HLR and the 400-500 saber

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First off, the saber elemental in this case is 112. The Carbine elemental is 90. So you implore YOU to look at the elemental combined with vast discrepencies in the regular damage.

Second of all, specials or no specials, the only time I can break 1100 damage on a level 80 is with AB and KD. Whereas the ranged toon can deliver 1500 damage regularly without any AB or KD in effect to the same level mob. The specials maybe better but aren't making up for the low damage of an average saber. Perhaps a pre-CU pearl saber with good tunes can make up for it, or exceed, a good ranged set up, but not a CU saber.

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MasterSheep wrote:

you need to take into account the elemental 25% of the saber min its a huge factor in PvP as it doesnt get reduced to .7 as the rest of the damage does - also saber special attack damage mods are VERY high - look at the numbers above for teh HLR and the 400-500 saber

worked example

450 - 550 saber + 150 elemental

500 -1100 for a rifle

PvP modded damages are

saber

315-385 +150 elemental

effective min of 465

rifle

350 - 770

min of 350

huge difference

Message Edited by MasterSheep on 08-31-2005 09:55 PM

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I dont' have 150 elemental and I wouldn't use such a rifle. It looks gimpy. I'll stick with a good carbine thanks.

What about the 30+ force cost of a 500 max saber?

send me the stats of your carb and ill happily compute them - was just a guess at a carb stat was working off the 500 min damthe proton had.

as for the force cost yes that is allways an issue for jedi - not denying it - i was just trying to point out that the seemingly LOW max dam of a saber doesnt mean its a junk weapon as soo many people think

Message Edited by MasterSheep on 08-31-2005 10:05 PM

Message Edited by MasterSheep on 08-31-2005 10:06 PM

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MasterSheep wrote:

you need to take into account the elemental 25% of the saber min its a huge factor in PvP as it doesnt getreduced to .7 as the rest of the damage does - also saber special attack damage mods are VERY high - look at the numbers above for teh HLR and the 400-500 saber

worked example

450 - 550 saber + 150 elemental

500 -1100 for a rifle

PvP modded damages are

saber

315-385 +150 elemental

effective min of 465

rifle

350 - 770

min of 350

huge difference

Message Edited by MasterSheep on 08-31-200509:55 PM

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ok couple of things - first my take on force bar -

its there to make jedi nore tricky to play - jedi is meant to be hard to play not easy - thats my personal oppinion and ive managed for quite a whiule on a 3550 bar as a hybrid

second - its not about dice rolls - nothing is random in combat at all nowadays - its all defined and repeatable based on defence accuracy and armour as i explained int he top post - ironically - in high end pvp krayt/enhanced weapons hardly perfom better than regular ones due to the fact it almost all works off min damages

thirdly about CL. the range of damage is done over a range of 30 CL startting 10 CL below you and ending 20 CL above you - HOWEVER some stats (blind and dizzy) can adjust this. THe point is in VERY high level PvE cl 90 and above - so ancient krayts NK etc - sabers are by far the best weapon. IN combat vs a CL80 a perfect rifle is better than an average saber.

This makes sense as it allows regular professions to perform well vs regular enemies they may meet at CL80.

THe very high end stuff is skewed towards being more managable for jedi sabers though - acarbineer has a very hard time vs an ancient krayt (trust me ive tired with a damage and sac capped carbine) its possible to take it down but the damage you do is tiny.

Message Edited by MasterSheep on 08-31-2005 10:20 PM

I wanted to update this a bit with one more item. What about the comparison ofa 500 damage saber costing 70 million compared to a 250k pistol.

Actually my saber is 524-619, 1.54 speed, 30 fc, 95 sac and cost about 70 million. I spend 10-15 million every time I get it, tobuy and tune10-15 pearls. Out of each set of 10, I get maybe 1 that is "usuable" ( not good mind you ).

For instance, my last batch cost me 10 million ( 12 peals @ 850k). The best, most usuable tune was:

97/97, -0.16, -3 FC ( it replaced a 91, -0.14, -4 FC )

My net upgrade was +6 damage +2 FC ( was 28 now 30 ). COST = 10 million.

ok so a 500 max dam saber

so thats 500-400 and 125 elemental

someone wanna throw me a 250k pistol stat so i can crunch the numbers?

A'ru,

Can you send me the exact formula you are working off of so I can take a look at it?

Thank You

MasterSheep-

First thanks for the insightful input. Well spoken and well displayed. It isn't often this forum is treated with opposing numbers in such a respectful manner. /kowtow

I just had a couple questions with your numbers. Theoretically, I see even average sabers to have decent minimums which you suggest are the main factor in weapon effectiveness. How are damage multipliers and speed accounted for? Maybe you have addressed this already, but rarely are folks doing their most base attack during PvP and especially PvE and I would interested to see the "average" saber of a full tempJedi as compared to a double elite mastery of a Non-Jedi in those terms.Also note that I would think our profession is divided as tothose that are MLS and those carrying 0404 or similar.

Stripping down the raw numbers to those with MLS or 0404 saber vs. non-Jedi without the use of speed buffs/tapes and simulating those numbers with modded speed and actual damage multiplierswith the cooldowns/warmups is a more appropriate measure of combat. We (as in any combat class) have to take into consideration the damage dealt over the course of the battle rather than the first hit. I will more or less concede that on a one hit test, mysaber powerhit is probablyat least equal to a decent carbine's adv critical shot. If that is the measure of the entire test, thanI do not hesitate to state you are mostly correct. However, I stand with my contention that issmallest portion of combat in this game.

Force costs, buffs/debuffs, and tapes shouldn't be included in this scenario as we are not comparing the effectiveness of combat classes rather the weapons they use.

Again, thanks in advance Master Sheep, for the mature topic and responses.

First thanks for the insightful input. Well spoken and well displayed. It isn't often this forum is treated with opposing numbers in such a respectful manner. /kowtow