Jedi Archive
Thread: Cloakers start banking XP
SugarBuzz1
Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:57 am
#14
Durzel wrote:
mczx wrote:
Yes but how is aura or 4000 healer a "get out of Jail free" card. To compare those 2 skills to Cloak is pointless.
QFE
So Because people dont have the skills to stop it its a get out of jail free card. Having to run away isnt getting out of jail. so what you didnt die but you tucked tail between your legs and ran. I can root you and improved fr away just as quick. should we move them to?
Quadork
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:24 am
#15
/fixed.
chewboywa wrote:
SugarBuzz1 wrote:
chewboywa wrote:
This discussion does not need to be brought up again, but I must say this: if it does indeed need to be dealt with then the solution is to relocate the skill rather than have it "nerfed" just like the devs did to feign death, they could have resolved feign death by relocating the skill or even making it a master skill. Feign death was a good example of wrecking a skill that other people benefitted from rather than someone interested in mastering the profession, if the majority of Jedi are interested in just picking up that one skill and eventually in the long run, the master of that profession gets penalized due to the abuse that particular skill recieved. Just my vision of how the developers do their thing.
Yeah but this starts a pattern. For those who just pick up arua in the defender line or armor in the enhancer line. Or 4000 healer. Every jedi I know has 4000 healer. so cloak is a valuable skill. Not ever jedi has it though. 4000 healer is much more valuable. If you have to master a proffesion to have access to the good skills then improved arua will have to become a master box skill and the same with advanced heal. Jedi get 226 sp that have to be divided among 5 skillsets. Putting everything that is good in masterboxes will just make everyones tempates that much more similiar. The ability to obtain good skills with out mstering a skill set allows people to diversify. We might as well go back to the old days wehre Jedi Skills were all in one skill set. We all had the same template. I agree
that if skills are abused (using cloak to easily loot stuff or greif people) then this is bad. I am not talking about that though. I use it how its intended.
Master healer already gets totalheal, master defender already gets avoid incap, master enhancer already getsadvanced force run,STASIS,master lightsaber gets dervish, master powers... only gets a choke that doesn't do very much against a majority of Jedi and breech that misses more often than stasis does. Master wielder does not get very beneficial skills other than cloak which is a tier 4 tree that many can easily dabble into and if developers decide to break cloak instead of moving it to the master box, then God help the master force wielders.
karther77
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:26 am
#16
Yes agreed.. If we put all Specials in the master boxes then everyone would be of same template again..and only the masters would be of any power..and I beleive alot of items in the Jedi proffessions would be left out.......Having this template like it is with being able to dabble is the way this was meant to be.. AND if something seems to powerfull or SOME JEDI are using this to an unfair advantage in looting or other in game items then if possible report them also..Find a way to get the item in game worked over NOT THE proffession skill...
Take the DWB bunker and cloak.. If Jedi are using this to bring DWB droids away from them and onto others for one then maybe they should not have agro to them while in cloak THis would fix this issue...no need to nerf cloak to fix a game mechanic..workaround.. Also everything in game can be worked like this.. Kinda like the Nade grinding ..the trade in XP didnt need nerfing 30:1 they should have found a way t make Nade XP something else..or make it to where it worked differently.. but instead they went way over heals and change the WHOLE system turn in for XP...qwhen only one item Gernades needed to be changed.. DONT always cry for the SPECIALS to be looked into. If you see something that you dont like look at what it is effecting in the game and then try to think of a way around this and ask for that to be fixed not the special..
Everytime we ask for a special to be changed we nurf the game playability of the game neless the special itself is BLANTLY flawed....
Nuff Said...
SoloBacca1
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:27 am
#17
I saw leave it... as it is... I dont have it... But really cant jedi at least have one usefull skill? or two? I mean I could says exstremly bad words about how many cry nerfs... I got suspended one time because I used a way to hard way to see its a bad idea...
James1701
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:33 am
#18
Just a couple things I think they should do with cloak.
1. Make it so that if the Jedi uncloaks and gets tefd thru attacking or being attacked, he shouldn't be able to cloak immeditaly by just running 20m out and hittin the button. Either put a timer on it, or don't allow cloak to be used until combat tef is cleared, meaning the Jedi would have to stay uncloaked and leave combat if he wished to re-cloak.
2. Fix it so cloak breaks if you do ANYTHING other than run around. That would fix the cloakers that exploit by looting containers, stopping base coundowns, etc etc.
Yes, it's a cool skill, good for the hit and tun tactics or to just spy around, but as it is, it's rather lame and is being abused all to often. I had an overt that all he would do would be uncloak, saberthrow, recloak. If idea number 1 would have been in place, he would have been taking a serious risk doing that and it should be that way.
Also makes for more interesting BH encounters, because all to often, in mid-fight, the Jedi can just root, run out 20m and cloak. Game over. Shouldn't be like that imo.
Iawalein
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:37 am
#19
As a non-powers jedi, I don't think that cloak needs a change. There is no way to actually kill someone with it alone (except for the remain cloaked while attacking bug), and those extra SPs could be better applied in another discipline/branch-making the cloaker weaker somewhere else. (as much as an entire branch plus a "tier I" box").
I DO think that they need to change it so that a cloaked jedi must uncloak to loot (isn't it enough bonus to be able to approach the object without being hit?), since THAT is what will eventually get it nerfed down to useless. Who wants to see a cloaked jedi run to the loot areas in the DWB and loot with impunity when other groups get destroyed just trying to get there?
I DO think that they need to change it so that a cloaked jedi must uncloak to loot (isn't it enough bonus to be able to approach the object without being hit?), since THAT is what will eventually get it nerfed down to useless. Who wants to see a cloaked jedi run to the loot areas in the DWB and loot with impunity when other groups get destroyed just trying to get there?
SugarBuzz1
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:41 am
#20
I agree Master powers needs love. If I had to choose between a nerf and moving it Id say move it. I dont wantto see us getting nerfed anymore. Id give it up and regrind something else before I would see it nerfed. Your post shows that forcepowers specials dont = those of the other proffesions and may be correct. Moving cloak to the masterbox may make it more enticing to master force powers but in reality makes all of us cloak dabblers drop it can get more defense. So everyone will run around with the aura+armor dabbling that master powers will have trouble with. This at least gives those of us that like the ninja style fighting something fun to do. Lets concentrate on fixing the exploits of cloak and give powers more specials and strength to make it more enticing. Positive enhancement of our community not negetive.
Quadork wrote:
/fixed.
chewboywa wrote:
SugarBuzz1 wrote:
chewboywa wrote:
This discussion does not need to be brought up again, but I must say this: if it does indeed need to be dealt with then the solution is to relocate the skill rather than have it "nerfed" just like the devs did to feign death, they could have resolved feign death by relocating the skill or even making it a master skill. Feign death was a good example of wrecking a skill that other people benefitted from rather than someone interested in mastering the profession, if the majority of Jedi are interested in just picking up that one skill and eventually in the long run, the master of that profession gets penalized due to the abuse that particular skill recieved. Just my vision of how the developers do their thing.
Yeah but this starts a pattern. For those who just pick up arua in the defender line or armor in the enhancer line. Or 4000 healer. Every jedi I know has 4000 healer. so cloak is a valuable skill. Not ever jedi has it though. 4000 healer is much more valuable. If you have to master a profession to have access to the good skills then improved arua will have to become a master box skill and the same with advanced heal. Jedi get 226 sp that have to be divided among 5 skillsets. Putting everything that is good in masterboxes will just make everyones templates that much more similiar. The ability to obtain good skills with out mstering a skill set allows people to diversify. We might as well go back to the old days wehre Jedi Skills were all in one skill set. We all had the same template. I agree
that if skills are abused (using cloak to easily loot stuff or greif people) then this is bad. I am not talking about that though. I use it how its intended.
Master healer already gets totalheal, master defender already gets avoid incap, master enhancer already getsadvanced force run,STASIS,master lightsaber gets dervish, master powers... only gets a choke that doesn't do very much against a majority of Jedi and breech that misses more often than stasis does. Master wielder does not get very beneficial skills other than cloak which is a tier 4 tree that many can easily dabble into and if developers decide to break cloak instead of moving it to the master box, then God help the master force wielders.
chewboywa
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:46 am
#21
SugarBuzz1 wrote:
I agree Master powers needs love. If I had to choose between a nerf and moving it Id say move it. I dont wantto see us getting nerfed anymore. Id give it up and regrind something else before I would see it nerfed. Your post shows that forcepowers specials dont = those of the other proffesions and may be correct. Moving cloak to the masterbox may make it more enticing to master force powers but in reality makes all of us cloak dabblers drop it can get more defense. So everyone will run around with the aura+armor dabbling that master powers will have trouble with. This at least gives those of us that like the ninja style fighting something fun to do. Lets concentrate on fixing the exploits of cloak and give powers more specials and strength to make it more enticing. Positive enhancement of our community not negetive.
Quadork wrote:
/fixed.
chewboywa wrote:
SugarBuzz1 wrote:
chewboywa wrote:
This discussion does not need to be brought up again, but I must say this: if it does indeed need to be dealt with then the solution is to relocate the skill rather than have it "nerfed" just like the devs did to feign death, they could have resolved feign death by relocating the skill or even making it a master skill. Feign death was a good example of wrecking a skill that other people benefitted from rather than someone interested in mastering the profession, if the majority of Jedi are interested in just picking up that one skill and eventually in the long run, the master of that profession gets penalized due to the abuse that particular skill recieved. Just my vision of how the developers do their thing.
Yeah but this starts a pattern. For those who just pick up arua in the defender line or armor in the enhancer line. Or 4000 healer. Every jedi I know has 4000 healer. so cloak is a valuable skill. Not ever jedi has it though. 4000 healer is much more valuable. If you have to master a profession to have access to the good skills then improved arua will have to become a master box skill and the same with advanced heal. Jedi get 226 sp that have to be divided among 5 skillsets. Putting everything that is good in masterboxes will just make everyones templates that much more similiar. The ability to obtain good skills with out mstering a skill set allows people to diversify. We might as well go back to the old days wehre Jedi Skills were all in one skill set. We all had the same template. I agreethat if skills are abused (using cloak to easily loot stuff or greif people) then this is bad. I am not talking about that though. I use it how its intended.
Master healer already gets totalheal, master defender already gets avoid incap, master enhancer already getsadvanced force run,STASIS, master lightsaber gets dervish, master powers... only gets a choke that doesn't do very much against a majority of Jedi and breech that misses more often than stasis does. Master wielder does not get very beneficial skills other than cloak which is a tier 4 tree that many can easily dabble into and if developers decide to break cloak instead of moving it to the master box, then God help the master force wielders.
That is already happening on Tarquinas, I believe it is the FOTM and I lost count in how many overt Jedi I have run into that havs both armor and aura causing my force powers to do as much damage as a DH17 pistol would.
iskareot
Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:51 am
#22
I can tell you this, in a FRS system with Perma Overtness this will be a large problem and most of us know this already.
SURE we don't want to say it but it will be.... a team of 5 cloaked guys can just sit outside a Knights house and grief the crap out of him or the closest cloner due to the overt issue.
Cloak needs some sort of a sense earned at Knight... i.e. "Knights only due to overtness" BUT somthing like "You feel a Jedi presence cloaked near" type message... this way you at least know somthing.
Or every dark Jedi will be cloaked and just travel in groups of 8 togther and more or less be the full time winners, picking off one guy at a time for FRS then cloaking again.
We can all say how this is rough and bad and cloak is this and that... but the fact is , its not a issue in a Paddy level use, declaring etc..
BUT with the FRS making us Perma overt and making death worth somthing to many people--- the system will be in danger in the first week if this is the case with cloak.
We all know it, but its a matter of trying to figure out a pre-fix or somthing to sort it out.
Arcadias
Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:01 am
#23
mczx wrote:
You realize a cloaked Jedi can loot all 4 bins on the corvette and complete the mission without even having to uncloak.
I solo the vette without cloaking at all.
In fact, I don't even use my Jedi for that.
Doesnt matter how many SBDs have been summoned already.
But the PvE issues would be solved if:
- SBD and BD are immune to cloak
- NPC dont agro you when cloaked.
Virtuell
Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:02 am
#24
I wonder if you who whine about anything what anything left or is this just for getting some edge over something?
Been on other forums and this one is the most non-unified forum ever i SWG
Gohma_Manovich
Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:05 am
#25
cloaks fine as it is, if they were going to change it add a 3 second warm-up nothing more
Caino
Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:17 am
#26
i think that only pure force wielder temp jedi know that moving cloak to master box will mean that no one will be able to get master force wielder anymore.
Force wielders are not able to fight a Mbh until they don't hit master power box, plus other skills in other jedi trees like ehn and heal.That means that if i cannot get cloak earlier, every bh engaging a force wielder will always kill him, pratically stopping anyone from trying to be a pure force wielder jedi, and forcing them to get some saber and defender boxes in their template, that simply means quitting the force wielder tree.
As a pure force wielder without a full template, i can assure u cloak is the only skill that is allowing me to survive and going on grinding. I think the solution may be something like to give this skill only to jedi who are (for example) 2222 power. In this way, force wielders won't be penalized ( they will get cloak sooner, tbh ), and ppl aiming to cloak to exploit it will heavily handicap their template, if they won't go further in power tree. cloakers would become much more rare, nearly an exclusive force wielders skill.
just my 2c