Items And Loot Archive
Thread: Anti Decay Kit + Looted Weapons
ForceFielding wrote:
ADK's don't belong on weapons period! They should only matter at death too.
Vet rewards and other gifts etc in MMORPG's have never been insanely overpowered until now. At best, they should give a slight advantage .... not allow players who have played 12 months (or rich players who buy a dozen of them) to slam powerups on their best weapon for eternity.
The are a cancer to crafters of armor and weapons and a cancer to combat balance. Shame on you SOE. Vet rewards should never be like this in any respectable MMORPG.
can only underline that
Sehera wrote:
Well,
thats totally egoistic... if some ppl here would get out of their egoistic minds, they would realize that it really doesnt matter at all if I had a exceptional weapon or not. I was starting this thread because I think we need to discuss the matter. (No - you started whining - and you're still whining - and below you've posted a whole load of vitriol that screams - I know not what I whine about)
Also, we had many thoughts about ADKs on Lightsabers... Well there are somekind of exceptional LS, or what some say, exploited LS, which damage for over 600dmg a second in pvp, what makes a BH stand, even with 40% LS resist for like 10s ?!
Anyway...
After some debates with my guildmates... we came down to this:
How much are we going to allow, when it comes to exceptional?
I mean, lets have a look at a powerhammer. With best resources, it can be crafted to about 450-500dmg and a speed of about 5.0 or a bit less.
With bones (I have no actual idea what stats exceptional have) (That's not the only thing you have no idea about)you might be possible to get 1.4k (ish) and 5.0 speed. Which is exceptional. (Acklay Bones increase damage but increase speed as well)
We are talking about a plus of 300%... think about that?! All other players will have only 100% and sliced maybe 130% . Are we really goind to allow that?
Think about the buffs! Actually buffs rise HAM for about 300+% if you had 1000ham points... (granted most have 400) . the CU will remove that and will change buffs to 20% or so ...
So, ppl with exceptional weapons and ppl without exceptional weapons... Do you want a small group of players have an 300%+ advantage over all other players for an unlimited amout of time???
I feel an advantage of 50% or maybe up to 100% for exceptional weapons if thinkable. But not 300% or more... Especially under the current loot system, we dmg isnt cumulated for grouped players. (Do what? Damage isn't calculated for grouped players? Do you even play the same game? It's calculated by how many people do what damage - look forget it, I'll reply below but you really need to learn the mechanics of the game before you start whining about the fineries)
Message Edited by Sehera on 03-20-2005 08:16 PM
Message Edited by Sehera on 03-20-2005 08:17 PM
I'll reply to both posts here.
Firstly, the FACT that I've had four weapons with an exceptional tag on them go through my hands was just that - a stated fact. It doesn't change the FACT that I'm a Commando - a profession with no AP on my standard weapons (so likely to get outdamaged by many people). It also doesn't change the FACT that my Exceptional Flamer has 67 - 614 (or thereabouts) damage, while my crafted has 480 - 923 and a way higher DPS. I guess you know everything about me then? No - go back to whining about ADK's.
As for Lightsabers - there are some exploited ones, but they are few and far between.
Crafted weapons - that *all* can get access to (if they spent less time moaning about others on the forums and more time hunting for them)are things like 200 - 600 damage (roughly) Launcher Pistols - before a slice,600 - 1000T-21's before a slice, Power Hammers that top 1k damage, 100 min damage VK's - the list goes on...
I have three ADK's, one for a PSG, one for *a* singleweapon out of 7 in my inv that I switch between a lot, and one not being used. I still eat through a suit of armour in a week, I still eat foods, I still degrade my other 6 weapons (a Krayt'd Republic Blaster, a Krayt'd DX2, a Gorax'd LP, 3 other Krayt'dflamers depending on situation and a Gorax'd Striker Pistol.) quite fast, but oh, darn - I shouldn't be allowed to have something which stops me decaying a single item because it's better than what you have... And you call me egoistic?
You whine about weapons, yetyou fail to look at speed caps - a speed capped swordsman will outdamage a master swordsman with no tapes - even if the regular Master is using an exceptional weapon more often than not (little equation called dps, but I'm sure your ego knows about this). The fact that the tapes cost in excess of 30 million to cap (On Chimaera at least) means they've had to put in some effort to get that cap. Have you put the same effort in?
As for bane on crafters - we all still chew through stuff really fast, bar maybe 1 or 2 players per server who've collected 20 or so adk's. Even at 10 million each, that's 200 million credits. One gun doesn't do diddly to a WS's bank balance, One ADK'd PSG doesn't do much to an AS's bank roll apart from make sure people now buy crates of LS resist PSG's for the shift. Shame on both of you for whining about a problem that isn't. You don't like being outdamaged? Go either put the effort in to get better or change profession.
As for someone being 300% better than me? I'd live with that - knowing that they put the time in. It would still gall me being outdamaged, BUT I'd accept it and move on, can't win every time (even with exceptional weapons). All your whining above doesn't look at weapons in the environment. AP is going (which is the biggest problem outdamage in the game contends with). Blah - it doesn't matter - you still believe that everyone bar you has guns that do elevendy damage and you'll get outdamaged on any mob you attack. Oh and they're all ADK'd. Natch. I guess that Rifleman who spent 500k on a crate of T-21's and a 100k to get them all sliced for that one 35% damage slice on his T-21 is carrying an exceptional too, that's ADK'd.
I'm done, Exceptional/Legendary weapons don't ruin PvP/PvE. A Fubared system does that. ADK's don't ruin PvP/PvE. AFubared system does that. One last point, if you're going to whine, learn the subject you're whining about. Have some cheese to go with that as well.
Baccana wrote:
the weapons being in the game isn't what digs into the craw of most people being outdamagedits the AFK camping and being outdamagedbecause macro loops are allowed to be used.
That I'd agree with utterly.
ForceFielding wrote:
I am waiting for the next round of vet rewards that follow in the ADK's footsteps where you get a deed that you can select any part of your body to become invulnerable.
And just as it is now with the current veteran "twink" deeds, the starports will be filled with spammers clammoring and harrassing other players to buy them for untold millions because they are such overpowered must-have items.
Hot guns that don't decay, PSG's that dont break (doh!), 90% chests and helms that are eternal, etc. It all won't matter because the next vet rewards are going to be even "better".
Perhaps - but consider this as a counterpoint. There will *always* be people with better armour, better weapons, more credits, stronger template, the list goes on... than you, and me, and him and her and them, and so on.
You are trying to get a good or better LVA than the one you just looted... so you pop your adk and lva together and go have fun. Sure - that person who has better stuff can outdamage you, but they'd be able to do that before, except - this time - all your efforts and decay you've put on your LVA just to be outdamaged doesn't happen, so you keep your 600 damage LVA as brand new. With a little time/effort - you loot an LVA that's even better than the last one, so in it goes and woohoo, off you go again.
Same with Riflemen and their DXR's or Swordsmen with their hammers. Sure - someone's gonna have a bigger weapon than you, but still - with determination and skill you can improve where you stand. Eventually - you get there. I can guarantee it'll take you time, but hey - what's wrong with that... you can now keep using a single decent weapon and go have fun, without the worries of having to replace it each time you have to pup it to try and play the outdamage game.
You can now use pups all the time, meaning there's a consistent flow of money into WS's in the way of pups - sure - they won't make the same in crates of T-21's (I used to buy a crate for 500k, pay 100k to get it sliced - keep one or maybe two if I were really lucky and give away or bazaar the rest), then I'd pup that weapon like crazy in order to loot high end stuff. Sure - I'm not twatting crates of T-21's, but I'm still using pup's (when I was rifleman) and they're still 8 - 10k a crate and I go through them really quick, 6 - 8 crates in half an hour at a guess? Because I don't need to replace my weapon every day/other day - I'm able to spend more on armour/foods/spices/fun stuff...
Second - the upcoming CU should level the field - the biggest issue is armour piercing. When that goes - the field will be much more balanced.
ADK's haven't crippled the game, they have given you the freedom to go have fun. Sure you can be outdamaged, but that's *always* been an issue before. Now however - your efforts are notas totally wasted as you have *some* of your efforts not go down the pan immediately. At the end of the day, I'd call that a good thing.
BOOMSTICK Inc.
Kakabus wrote:
The ADKs were probably put into the game a couple of months before CU to encourage PVP. To wipe the dust off Exp/Legend Weaps so you can actually use that weapon ingame and not just in TC. I bet most of those weapons will be nerfed to high heaven when CU hits. I will also bet ADKs will seem to have gotten nerfed as well. One thing this game likes to do is give you something. Let you enjoy it for a while. Then kick it where the sun dont shine. I really dont see the harm in letting people have some fun with that weapon they would have never used. I mean why put a weapon in the game with such a tag and nobody ever uses them.
Message Edited by Kakabus on 03-21-2005 10:46 PM
ForceFielding wrote:
Immortal weapons (and armor too, for that matter) go against the spirit of fair game play and the concept of an "economy" ... doesnt matter how you try to spin it.
Erm, no. This is the only MMO I know where you geta level of decay where you can use up a weapon in entirety in less than a day- fair ecomony?
You have a hot weapon? Fine. Pay the price for using it though. That means decay and ultimately having to buy a new weapon. I'm sure there are people running around now with ADK's on their double sliced exploited weapons that wern't discovered by the devs, etc too.
??? Do what - we now all have double sliced weapons do we? *boggle* You say I'm spinning it? I've put a glossy touch on ADK's. OK, to make you feel better, we *all* have exceptional/legendary weapons, pup sliced/double sliced cheat weapons around just to outdamage you, you don't have them, just us. Lol - go back to school to learn to create arguements.
A server of 20,000 people will probably have about 8000 ADK's floating around, and the people who use them will be putting them on their equipment that they use the most, the stuff they used to regularly buy off crafters. I know thats what I did, because thats what the game is allowing currently.
This thread was started because a player didn't like ADK's on exceptional weapons, you're just a bandwagon troll. ADK's let people go have fun. Forget the crap - people wanted to go out and run around and play an MMO like the rest are played. If you have enough ADK's to not need to buy off crafters again, then you shouldn't be hatingADK's in this thread and if you don't have that many then you're either a TKM or missing the point. This item is a lifesaver for Jedi, this weapon allows players to use a variety of weapons, especially their good ones and have fun. If you're *really* feeling the pinch as a crafter - then I'd suggest to stop being one as most of the crafters I know aren't going out of business - they're now working with Krayt'd/Gorax'd etc more than ever before (and loving it).
Pop these things off guns, and make them only matter at death, and then you will have vet rewards that are actually equal to one another, not one that stands out that is worth 10x more because it is so grossly overpowered. This was a big mistake by the devs but hopefully they will fix it.
I'm more hopeful that the troll control people will come and *fix* you... ADK's made the game fun for many. I've never seen so many people wearing their RIS armour that they worked so hard to get, I've never seen so many players being able to play without worry. You've been outdamaged? Oh cry me a river - it'd happen anyways - such is the nature of SWG. I don't own exceptional weapons I can use, just solid consistent performers. They take time and effort to make and if they die in a day - that sucks. Now I can go play the game some. Simple really.
Spinnthrift wrote:
ForceFielding wrote:
Immortal weapons (and armor too, for that matter) go against the spirit of fair game play and the concept of an "economy" ... doesnt matter how you try to spin it.
Erm, no. This is the only MMO I know where you geta level of decay where you can use up a weapon in entirety in less than a day- fair ecomony?
Yes, you know, an economy, where things get used up, etc and new things have to be bought from other players.Thats generally how it works.
You have a hot weapon? Fine. Pay the price for using it though. That means decay and ultimately having to buy a new weapon. I'm sure there are people running around now with ADK's on their double sliced exploited weapons that wern't discovered by the devs, etc too.
??? Do what - we now all have double sliced weapons do we? *boggle* You say I'm spinning it? I've put a glossy touch on ADK's. OK, to make you feel better, we *all* have exceptional/legendary weapons, pup sliced/double sliced cheat weapons around just to outdamage you, you don't have them, just us. Lol - go back to school to learn to create arguements.
Some people were smart enough not to triple and quadruple slice their weapons yes when the exploit existed and thus didnt get caught. You miss the point however. Its that when you use something there should be a cost.
A server of 20,000 people will probably have about 8000 ADK's floating around, and the people who use them will be putting them on their equipment that they use the most, the stuff they used to regularly buy off crafters. I know thats what I did, because thats what the game is allowing currently.
This thread was started because a player didn't like ADK's on exceptional weapons, you're just a bandwagon troll.
I don't like ADK's on weapons, period. Trolls are people who posts things just for the sake of a response. I however make valid points. That fact that you have resorted to namecalling just means you are loosing the argument.
ADK's let people go have fun. Forget the crap - people wanted to go out and run around and play an MMO like the rest are played.
The game was plenty fun before ADK's, and the game is still fun. The question is are they good for the game or are they just good for people who get off on being twinked? I think the answer is the latter. No MMORPG in history has ever given out rewards that significantly unbalace combat, and this is exactly what has been done in SWG.
If you have enough ADK's to not need to buy off crafters again, then you shouldn't be hatingADK's in this thread and if you don't have that many then you're either a TKM or missing the point.
I currently own 4 ADK's and still have yet to select mine. Who doesnt want something that doesnt decay if the game allows it? I take what is given in this game however the point is are they good for the game or not, and the answer is is no. I would not shed a tear if all ADK's were deleted. You are missing the point in that it's not all about whats best for YOU. Other people do play the game and many can not afford to buy extra ADK's for their PSG and their 90% chest and their 2 main guns. 2 words: combat balance.
This item is a lifesaver for Jedi, this weapon allows players to use a variety of weapons, especially their good ones and have fun. If you're *really* feeling the pinch as a crafter - then I'd suggest to stop being one as most of the crafters I know aren't going out of business - they're now working with Krayt'd/Gorax'd etc more than ever before (and loving it).
So if it werent for ADK's then Jedi would be dead, and before ADK's players didn't use a variety of weapons? That is a hilareous notion. They are working on Krayat and Gorax not because of ADK's but because Gorax have spawned again, berserker serial # has been fixed, and Krayts are literally all over the place. Just as a collection of resources that gets better and better eventually hardly ever gets any more that are better, so shall people's collection of ADK'edweapons get better (all of them on the server), to the point where they will hardly ever buy any ever agian.
Pop these things off guns, and make them only matter at death, and then you will have vet rewards that are actually equal to one another, not one that stands out that is worth 10x more because it is so grossly overpowered. This was a big mistake by the devs but hopefully they will fix it.
I'm more hopeful that the troll control people will come and *fix* you... ADK's made the game fun for many. I've never seen so many people wearing their RIS armour that they worked so hard to get, I've never seen so many players being able to play without worry. You've been outdamaged? Oh cry me a river - it'd happen anyways - such is the nature of SWG. I don't own exceptional weapons I can use, just solid consistent performers. They take time and effort to make and if they die in a day - that sucks. Now I can go play the game some. Simple really.
I hardly think that asserting that anti-decay kits should only be on insurable items, and that they should only matter at death, is looking to illicit responses (other than agreement). You are lucky enough that guns dont decay when you die, and that you don't loose your stuff when you die as it is. The game was already way too easy. In Ultima Online, the first ever great MMORPG, when you died you had 5 minutes to get back to your body or you lost everything except a couple things like your rune book and spellbook. I think if the teletubbies made an MMORPG then you would be first in line.