Items And Loot Archive
Thread: Why I joined the dark side and started camping.
Symphony
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:32 pm
#14
Nutts wrote:
"Before you flame me telling me that camping is wrong, and my entire argument is smoke and mirrors to justify my belief, I want you to honestly ask yourself WHY camping happens"
One word : Greed
You are absolutely correct. But, I'm not greedy. I camp for what I need because I refuse to pay millions of credits for anything in this game. 1) I don't have it and 2) I don't believe we should have to. Now, I will admit that when I first started looting the caves, my first thought was that I would finally be able to afford to buy the tapes, but I've changed my mind since then. I'm not going to sell any more tapes, but I'll trade the ones I have.
"If the consumer is not willing to pay the price for any particular item, the sellers MUST reduce their prices or the item will languish on shelves"
Then it would make sense that the prices would drop if the particular item were made more available, and they would not become more availableif there is a monopoly, actually the morepeople that gets their hands on an item the more available that item becomes.If there are any economists out there, they'll back me up on this.
This is exactly my point! It DOES need to be more available. But, who is going to make it more available? You? You sleep. The spawns that were going to happen while you were gone are wasted. SOMEONE needs to be there, 24/7 to put these spawns in the game. And, IMO, I'd rather it be me because I'm not going to exploit my fellow gamers. I just now looted a bleeding resistance +7. I have no idea what that's worth, but I'm not going to sell it for millions of credits - but I'll trade it to anyone on farstar for a comparable WS CA. Once I max my CAs, what do I need the money for? I'll trade it for a nice plant or couchto put in my house...
"If there were no money in it for the campers, they would NOT do it"
Im sure credit dupers say the same. Just because you make money loot camping doesn't justify it by any means, by camping the spawns/containers you rob other players the chance to get any loot and by doing so you make the loot less available and as an effect prices rise.
I'm not robbing anyone - if you're in game, you can beat my macro. It happens all the time and I am not complaining at all if you do it.
"Band together and take back your game - don't pay millions of credits for another single item. I will help"
Then I suggest you stop camping immediatly.
"Once I have my WS tapes, I'll sell it to you for a reasonable price, and not the millions others are charging."
How about giving the other Weaponsmith's and others a chance to get the loot for themselves? Why should they payan afk camperlike yourself for it?
Don't. Don't pay me a single credit. The only reason they wouldn't have a chance is if their /afk macro was not as efficient as mine. If they're in game, they have plenty of chances to beat it.
EDIT: How about arguing your views instead of doing the "1 star and run tactic", the word pathetic just gota new meaning.
I have been arguing my views. I amnot the one who is1-starring you. I have more maturity than that.
Message Edited by Nutts on 02-04-2005 09:13 AM
Symphony
Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:10 pm
#15
Pirates copy/distribute software because they claim it's too expensive. Companies charge more because they're not making as much money due to pirates. It's a cycle that will continue until the companies come out with some sort of paradigm shift. Personally, I think that if they lower the prices to the point that it will be easier to buy the software than to figure out how to steal it, then everyone will be happy. Since we're talking about software, if the price of all video games were reduced to$5, why would anyone bother trying to steal it? And, I have no data to back up this claim, but I bet they would sell more than 10 times the number of copies. Personally, I don't pirate software - I just wait until the price drops to something I'm willing to pay (like the Gold/Platinum Editions, etc.).
Unfortunately, this will never be an option for CAs, AAs, and containers. No one is suddenly going to say to themselves - you know what, I have enough credits now. I'm going to sell my +10 CAs for peanuts on the bazaar. The greedy will only get greedier until someone steps in and undercuts them - forcing them to lower their prices to compete.
My goal in this whole thing is to bring the economy to a point to where the average, casual gamer can have a shot at some of the cooler aspects of this game - preferably without joining any "good-old boy" clans if they don't feel like it. I feel that the current economy is oppressive to the new players and doesn't give them a fair chance to enjoy the game. The easy way out has absolutely nothing to do with it.
What I hear from your post is that I shouldaccept that your way of playing the game is right and that you're free to charge whatever you want - even if I believe that what you are doing is wrong. Well, I am just as adamant that my way of playing is right - even though you obviously believe that it is wrong. I believe that what happened with the containers was the right thing to do for the game and for the community. I believe that it will work with adhesives, party posters, and CAs and AAs - anything in the game, actually. Revolution is only wrong if you lose.
havenite
Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:59 pm
#16
Its the 3rd party campers that i detest,3 hovering over the lootpiles in cave and everytime the piles are empty.
I do pop over the caves to check for loot but leave once done and was lucky to grab a +4 med exp tape,but due to these 3rd party users dont think ill get any decent stuff from the borgle cave no more
I do pop over the caves to check for loot but leave once done and was lucky to grab a +4 med exp tape,but due to these 3rd party users dont think ill get any decent stuff from the borgle cave no more
PixellJ
Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:35 pm
#17
Well, you've completely missed my point, and you've assigned yourselfthe moral high ground anyways. Enjoy Farstar.
FYI, I'm not a vendor, I'm a humble pistoleer now. Not strong enough for the big loots, not rich enough for the big guns.
Symphony
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:32 pm
#18
I'm sorry, but I thought your point was: it's illegal and that automatically makes it wrong. I don't agree. What is right is not always legal. It may be against the law to steal from the rich and give to the poor, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. In fact, I think that if you see something wrong, you have an obligation to do what you believe to be right in order to fix it - whether it's legal or not.
For example, many of you believe that camping is wrong. And you feel you have an obligation to report those who do it to the CSRs. If you truly believe that and you are doing what you feel is right, then I have no complaint with you. But whatever you do, don't cave in and maintain the status quo just because that's the way everyone else is doing it.
If I have indeed missed your point, then please clarify. I welcome the debate.
cpz
Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:01 pm
#19
This discussion is borked
The problem is not the people who camp. Greed is a very basic, natural trait, especially in an unreal environment like a computer game, where there is no reason not to. The problem is the system that allows afk camping.
This forum needs a consistent voice, telling the people who can affect change that they need to do so.And this meanschanging the game mechanics that allow afk looting and teleport looting.
And Icommend your honesty, Symphony. But if it were up to me, you'd have your characters cancelled with immediate effect.
XwingRogue3
Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:04 am
#20
It sounds like Symphony knows what he does is wrong and lame yet is trying to convince himself that his actions are for the good of the game and economy. Any type of AFK camping is wrong and will someday be dealt with, plain and simple. By you AFK camping you are cheating a live player from actually playing a part of the game. It doesn't matter if it's meatlumps or Lord Nyax.
Symphony
Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:40 am
#21
How is afk camping different than at the keyboard camping? I know for a fact that many of you are perfectly fine with ATK (at the keyboard) camping, but you are dead-set against AFK camping. I'm curious why there's a distinction. What is right about one, but wrong about the other?
PixellJ
Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:24 am
#22
While your posts are well written, I gotta disagree with you fundamentally. You ARE justifying macroing under a banner of Robin Hood-like actions. However, your bias is 180 degrees backwards. There is no such thing as over charging in a free market. Supply and demand is the bottom line. I can charge whatever I feel for any widget, and if people pay, great. If not, I hang up my shingle and go bankrupt.
Your attitude actually is not unlike software piracy. "Company X charges too much for their software anyways". So it gets copied with 'noble' reasons given. A victory for the common man. Problem is, it's still against the law, like it or not.
Same with afk macroing. the 2 problems are mutually exclusive. The ONLY way to fight 'overpricing' is to vote with your credits. Buy it, or don't. Or, if you MUST have said trinket, play the freaking game to earn the money. Takes longer, sure. But if the easy road is what you're after (and you are, make no mistake), buy the credits from ebay. That's even easier than macroing. buy lots of credits, and then you can get all the CA/AA out there, and sell them to the common man at a fair price.
I'm not judging one way or the other here, to each their own. But don't make manure and try to sell it as gold.
PixellJ
Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:33 am
#23
Forgot to add that I did the smuggler grind too. Didn't pay a single credit for containers. I joineda PA, made friends, and collectively we gathered enough containers that I'm done to MS. I still get containers from them. bought my clamps from vendors, 5k a box. gotta do the pistol grind anyways, so I ran missions. Picked up scout, farmed meat for doctors all at the same time. Made credits, earned xp, worked my way through smuggler college.
cpz
Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:38 am
#24
Symphony wrote:
How is afk camping different than at the keyboard camping? I know for a fact that many of you are perfectly fine with ATK (at the keyboard) camping, but you are dead-set against AFK camping. I'm curious why there's a distinction. What is right about one, but wrong about the other?
Duh. I can only guess you're asking that immensely lame question as some kind of last ditch desperation to avoid the flak
One is you 'playing' the game, ie your actions affecting the way your character reacts with his world. When you play, you are participating in the world in the way the game was designed. When you are playing, you are adding value ot the game, as you are a fully functional part of the galaxy. Your presence enriches other players' game experience and vice versa. It's also obvious that the caves were designed to be beaten, with the loot at the bottom being the reward for beating the cave. What have you beaten? You have beaten the system, that's all. And for what? Greed. You allow your greed to disappoint other players game experience when they actually play the game and beat the cave, they can't collect their reward because you have a real clever little program set up that ensures you take the prize within seconds of it appearaing. It's glaringly obvious, so don't insult us by pretending not to see it.
Symphony
Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:01 am
#25
I'm sorry, but you'll have to do better than "duh". Take your time, think about it. If someone is at their keyboard and is camping the POI, how is that different than if someone is NOT at the keyboard but is still at the POI. Their actions are no different from mine, except that they might say "Hi" when, of course I won't. Other than that, I see absolutely no difference between the people I have seen in the borgle caves who play their characters, and those that put them on autopilot.
For that matter, what about the person who sits at their keyboard, goes on missions, doesn't camp a thing, but says nothing to anyone for the entire time he plays. Is he bad?
I don't believe you've been reading my posts. I am not greedy. In fact, this morning, someone came in and said he was looking for a medical experiment tape. I didn't have one, but I did have an artisan tape +2. I gave it to him - didn't charge him a single credit. His name was Quantico if you want to look him up and verify. How is that greedy? The tape was actually in the side cave and not at the bottom - I grabbed it on my way out to interact with my fellow man and contribute to the game and all that. If I hadn't grabbed it, he wouldn't have - it would have been another loot wasted.
Find another complaint in my actions, because I do NOT do what I do out of greed. READ my posts and you'll see that.
cpz
Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:03 am
#26
Symphony wrote:
I'm sorry, but you'll have to do better than "duh". Take your time, think about it. If someone is at their keyboard and is camping the POI, how is that different than if someone is NOT at the keyboard but is still at the POI. Their actions are no different from mine, except that they might say "Hi" when, of course I won't. Other than that, I see absolutely no difference between the people I have seen in the borgle caves who play their characters, and those that put them on autopilot.
Firstly, I regard people who teleport into the cave and loot manually as lowly as I regard you. The problem is that the campers have not cleared the cave, they have not put in the effort to get the reward. Can you not see that? They haven'tadded a thing to the world and yet walk away with the prize. That is my problem. That you do it afk grates with me moreso because you're not even in the gamethat you're ruining for others. It's so remote, so faceless. You're a robot picking up undeserved rewards.
For that matter, what about the person who sits at their keyboard, goes on missions, doesn't camp a thing, but says nothing to anyone for the entire time he plays. Is he bad?
Huh? Interaction goes deeper than whether you're social or not. The point you're trying to make is feeble.
I don't believe you've been reading my posts. I am not greedy. In fact, this morning, someone came in and said he was looking for a medical experiment tape. I didn't have one, but I did have an artisan tape +2. I gave it to him - didn't charge him a single credit. His name was Quantico if you want to look him up and verify. How is that greedy? The tape was actually in the side cave and not at the bottom - I grabbed it on my way out to interact with my fellow man and contribute to the game and all that. If I hadn't grabbed it, he wouldn't have - it would have been another loot wasted.
I have read your posts, and you are greedy. You want the 12pts for WS but don't want to pay the high prices, so instead of (a) working your way to be able to afford them or (b) doing the caves as intended you opted for (c) set up afk looting to grab what you want, screw everyone else. And then, you try to justify your actions by giving away crumbs from your table. Oh! How lucky the receivers of your generous gifts should feel
Find another complaint in my actions, because I do NOT do what I do out of greed. READ my posts and you'll see that.
You are a classic case of 'in denial'
As it stands, it is possible to loot premium goods for minimum effort, eg the Borgle Cave. Answer me this, is it right, just because you can do something, that you should?
You are beating the system and so cheating other playres of their rightful rewards. The evs must change the loot drops to make this insane exploiting impossible.
All they need to do is make the attachments lootable from the matriach corpse and beef her up so you can't kill her unbuffed. Will you agree, Symphony, that that would be a better scenario than the existing one?