Items And Loot Archive
Thread: Why I joined the dark side and started camping.
Page 1 of 6
Symphony
Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:59 pm
#1
The subject line alone is probably enough to get me one-starred even before the post is read, but give me a minute and let me explain.
Once upon a time, I was a noob to this game and thought that smuggler would be the coolest profession ever. I needed containers to slice and sat outside my local bank/starport and shouted for them. I shouted that I would slice for free (even though a Master Smuggler charged me 20000 credits just to make me a clamp schematic - not even for metal, just the schematic). I got a bite here and there, but for the most part, I felt like a leper - no one needed their containers opened.
So, I looked on the bazaar for containers. 6000 credits each! I couldn't believe it! I am now a Master Smuggler and I have NEVER seen anything in one that would justify that kind of cost. You can't get anything out of a container that would be worth 6000 credits. So why would someone want a smuggler to open one? Once it's open, it's worthless, but smugglers have to have them to gain rank, so some people chose toexploit us for a few credits.
Well, like I said, I spent 20000 credits to get the clamp schematic, so I sure couldn't afford to buy any containers! BUT! I found out that meatlumps dropped containers, so I headed off to Coronet to kill some meatlumps. At first, I killed them the old-fashioned way (actually sitting at the keyboard), but after a while, I discovered the combat macro commands and I set up a macro to autokill meatlumps all night while I slept.
Not only did I get about 10-15 containers to slice, but I made almost 60k just killing meatlumps! This was more credits than I'd ever seen! I could now afford to buy three clamp schematics! Woo-hoo! Plus, I made pistol xp towards the other parts of being smuggler! It was brilliant! I'm a genius!
But, this got me thinking - what about my fellow smugglers? They're still paying 6000 credits for a container. That's just wrong. So I kept camping meatlumps and started selling the containers for 1000 to 1500 each on my vendor and 2000 on the bazaar. If someone talked to me in person, I only charged 500. If I liked the person I was talking to and thought they would use their power for good, I told them about my /afk macro and told them how to do it. I e-mailed them the details of my macro. In time, I saw the price of containers drop to about 2 - 3k on the bazaar. Was this because of me? I'm almost conceited enough to say that it was!
Then I started the grind towards Weaponsmith. Now, I take pride in my work, but no matter how hard I try, I can't make weapons even close to the same quality as the prominent weaponsmith's on my server. Everywhere I look, I see signs advertising +2 weaponsmith. I told myself, well, that's okay - as long as I use quality resources, I should make some that are almost the same quality.
I started spamming requests for quality resources - irolunn reactive gas for example. It's used in advanced power handlers which are used in EVERY firearm. I had a doctor tell me that he had some irolunn gas with 900+ OQ - perfect for what I was looking for. And, he'd only charge me 120 cpu. 120 flippin cpu?!! You gotta be kidding me! Killing meatlumps just doesn't pay the kind of credits where I could afford that kind of price. (Huge thanks to the WS who sold me some 649 OQ gas for only 1 cpu - it's folks like you who make the game worth playing)
So, if I want to compete in the Weaponsmith market, I need clothing attachments and decent resources. I'm slowly building up a resource selection, but no one is offering clothing attachments for a reasonable price.
When I think about it, the ONLY way I can think of to bring down the price of these things where they can be affordable to mere mortals is to flood the market with them. It worked for the containers, and I think it will work for the posters, adhesives, clothing attachments, whatever.
Who do I hurt by camping? I hurt the guy that was going to wander in to the borgle cave POI and loot the goodies at the bottom of the cave. Unless he was going to camp the same spot (in which case, he's as guilty as I am), he's only going to put 2 or 3 attachments into circulation. Personally, I don't camp during high traffic times so others will get a shot at the goodies - just during the low times when the spawns might be wasted, but that's me.
Now, if you're complaint is that I am /afk while camping it and you wanted to camp it while actually at your keyboard, I'm afraid I don't see the difference. Am I evil because I want to sleep? I don't think so, but regardless, you CAN beat my macro. In fact, there's a guy on my server (BullseyeHUN) who consistently beats it. He must have quite a bit of patience, but it doesn't bother me, because the attachments are still getting into circulation and I know he will eventually get bored and leave.
I do not believe it's the /afk macro guys that cause the problems, I think it's the people that will pay millions for clothing attachments or over 100 thousand for adhesives. Tell me this, who would camp Nyax, or whatever his name is, if they only made a few thousand credits for it?
Maybe you think I'm a bad guy, but IMO, I'm doing more good than harm. If you need one of the attachments that I just looted from the borgle cave, send me a /tell. If I have one, I'll trade you for a WS tape with similar stats. If it's a +1 tape, you can probably have it.
If you need WS resources, look me up - I don't have much, but I'll do what I can. If you need a clamp schematic, bring me the metal you want to use and I won't charge you a single credit. I don't camp meatlumps much these days, but if you need containers, come see me with the novice smuggler tag on and I'll send you a macro so you can get some sleep.
Then I started the grind towards Weaponsmith. Now, I take pride in my work, but no matter how hard I try, I can't make weapons even close to the same quality as the prominent weaponsmith's on my server. Everywhere I look, I see signs advertising +2 weaponsmith. I told myself, well, that's okay - as long as I use quality resources, I should make some that are almost the same quality.
I started spamming requests for quality resources - irolunn reactive gas for example. It's used in advanced power handlers which are used in EVERY firearm. I had a doctor tell me that he had some irolunn gas with 900+ OQ - perfect for what I was looking for. And, he'd only charge me 120 cpu. 120 flippin cpu?!! You gotta be kidding me! Killing meatlumps just doesn't pay the kind of credits where I could afford that kind of price. (Huge thanks to the WS who sold me some 649 OQ gas for only 1 cpu - it's folks like you who make the game worth playing)
So, if I want to compete in the Weaponsmith market, I need clothing attachments and decent resources. I'm slowly building up a resource selection, but no one is offering clothing attachments for a reasonable price.
When I think about it, the ONLY way I can think of to bring down the price of these things where they can be affordable to mere mortals is to flood the market with them. It worked for the containers, and I think it will work for the posters, adhesives, clothing attachments, whatever.
Who do I hurt by camping? I hurt the guy that was going to wander in to the borgle cave POI and loot the goodies at the bottom of the cave. Unless he was going to camp the same spot (in which case, he's as guilty as I am), he's only going to put 2 or 3 attachments into circulation. Personally, I don't camp during high traffic times so others will get a shot at the goodies - just during the low times when the spawns might be wasted, but that's me.
Now, if you're complaint is that I am /afk while camping it and you wanted to camp it while actually at your keyboard, I'm afraid I don't see the difference. Am I evil because I want to sleep? I don't think so, but regardless, you CAN beat my macro. In fact, there's a guy on my server (BullseyeHUN) who consistently beats it. He must have quite a bit of patience, but it doesn't bother me, because the attachments are still getting into circulation and I know he will eventually get bored and leave.
I do not believe it's the /afk macro guys that cause the problems, I think it's the people that will pay millions for clothing attachments or over 100 thousand for adhesives. Tell me this, who would camp Nyax, or whatever his name is, if they only made a few thousand credits for it?
Maybe you think I'm a bad guy, but IMO, I'm doing more good than harm. If you need one of the attachments that I just looted from the borgle cave, send me a /tell. If I have one, I'll trade you for a WS tape with similar stats. If it's a +1 tape, you can probably have it.
If you need WS resources, look me up - I don't have much, but I'll do what I can. If you need a clamp schematic, bring me the metal you want to use and I won't charge you a single credit. I don't camp meatlumps much these days, but if you need containers, come see me with the novice smuggler tag on and I'll send you a macro so you can get some sleep.
Welcome to the dark side.
TjadenFederov
Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:08 pm
#2
I really don't agree with camping, but you made a very valid and persuasive argument, so 5* for you. Its good to see someone from the 'other side' not only state their reasons, but also back them up. Great post.
NetViperX
Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:24 pm
#3
Yeah great post, you paid the same 15$ a month as everyone else, if you want to run a kill/loot macro, thats your choice. And besides, its super easy to subvert an afk kill/loot macro, so if a non afk comes along, he can jump right in and start killing and looting. All you gotta do is run up and kill thenpc's before the afk player does, and leave one ofthe corpses on the ground, and his loot macro will hang up trying to loot a corpse it cant access, then you will have free looting of the rest of them until that corpse disappears. Simple and effective, and since the corpse disappears in a few minutes, it even keeps someone from leaving a corpse lying around to greif the afk player, so all is good and everyone is happy. This trick might not work in all instances, but it for sure works for meatlump spawns and the like, where several of them spawn in a group.
Sifer2
Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:26 pm
#4
Yeah if everyone was like you an sold them for affordable prices it would'nt be a problem. But most people camp the joint an sell them for insane amounts. So the arguement is. Would'nt it be more fair for everyone if people could just go loot these items themselves if they did'nt want to pay the campers? But they cant because the camper is always there.
Narreem0884
Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:55 pm
#5
It's one thing when you camp a generic enemy spawn inside a city. It's another to camp a unique spawn at a POI. Anyone can get missions to kill meatlumps or some other such loot dropping thug but Nyax is a unique character found in only one place. Other people want the chance to kill him if they haven't tried to yet. If they just made every cave-like POI act like the corvette which only spawns for a person or group then no one would complain, because everyone would be able to go there.
JeebusCrisp
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:53 pm
#7
All I see is someone doing their best to justify something they know is wrong.
Nice post and well worded, but the Devil himself can quote scripture as well as any preacher.
Nice post and well worded, but the Devil himself can quote scripture as well as any preacher.
Nutts
Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:05 am
#8
People like you should be banned!
Acting like a noble hero, phff!!
Everyone should have a fair shot at the loot in this game and especially in the various caves, I can understand that people use macro's for crafting , but to afk loot!? Nope, im not buying that. Infact you are one of the reasons why the prices are so high on these attachments, since nobody exceptthe campers can get them you control the market, taking the best ones for yourself and selling the rest for unbelivable high prices.
Im sick of travelling to every single POI in this game only to see it camped by some fool like yourself. The worst part is that you act like you are some kind of hero because you do this and then you blame the economy for your actions, its pathetic, its because of people like yourself that the econmy is screwed. You should try playing the game instead of running your lame afk macro bs.
Symphony
Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:21 am
#9
Before you flame me telling me that camping is wrong, and my entire argument is smoke and mirrors to justify my belief, I want you to honestly ask yourself WHY camping happens. Camping happens because people can make money doing it. If there were no money in it for the campers, they would NOT do it - people can only use so many SEAs and then they'll find something else to do.
Telling me that campers set the rules because they take all the loot is just not true. In ANY economy, it is not the seller that sets the price of goods (despite what you might think) it is the buyer. If the consumer is not willing to pay the price for any particular item, the sellers MUST reduce their prices or the item will languish on shelves. If there are any economists out there, they'll back me up on this.
Band together and take back your game - don't pay millions of credits for another single item. I will help - ask me if I have a particular tape, if I have it, I'll trade with you. Once I have my WS tapes, I'll sell it to you for a reasonable price, and not the millions others are charging. I have a handful of adhesives right now, I'll give 'em to you for 50k each - 25k if you're in my guild.
Nutts
Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:51 am
#10
Symphony wrote:
Before you flame me telling me that camping is wrong, and my entire argument is smoke and mirrors to justify my belief, I want you to honestly ask yourself WHY camping happens. Camping happens because people can make money doing it. If there were no money in it for the campers, they would NOT do it - people can only use so many SEAs and then they'll find something else to do.
Telling me that campers set the rules because they take all the loot is just not true. In ANY economy, it is not the seller that sets the price of goods (despite what you might think) it is the buyer. If the consumer is not willing to pay the price for any particular item, the sellers MUST reduce their prices or the item will languish on shelves. If there are any economists out there, they'll back me up on this.
Band together and take back your game - don't pay millions of credits for another single item. I will help - ask me if I have a particular tape, if I have it, I'll trade with you. Once I have my WS tapes, I'll sell it to you for a reasonable price, and not the millions others are charging. I have a handful of adhesives right now, I'll give 'em to you for 50k each - 25k if you're in my guild.
"Before you flame me telling me that camping is wrong, and my entire argument is smoke and mirrors to justify my belief, I want you to honestly ask yourself WHY camping happens"
One word : Greed
"If the consumer is not willing to pay the price for any particular item, the sellers MUST reduce their prices or the item will languish on shelves"
Then it would make sense that the prices would drop if the particular item were made more available, and they would not become more availableif there is a monopoly, actually the morepeople that gets their hands on an item the more available that item becomes.If there are any economists out there, they'll back me up on this.
"If there were no money in it for the campers, they would NOT do it"
Im sure credit dupers say the same. Just because you make money loot camping doesn't justify it by any means, by camping the spawns/containers you rob other players the chance to get any loot and by doing so you make the loot less available and as an effect prices rise.
"Band together and take back your game - don't pay millions of credits for another single item. I will help"
Then I suggest you stop camping immediatly.
"Once I have my WS tapes, I'll sell it to you for a reasonable price, and not the millions others are charging."
How about giving the other Weaponsmith's and others a chance to get the loot for themselves? Why should they payan afk camperlike yourself for it?
EDIT: How about arguing your views instead of doing the "1 star and run tactic", the word pathetic just gota new meaning.
Message Edited by Nutts on 02-04-2005 09:13 AM
Symphony
Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:17 am
#11
How much are they charging you for a Clothing Experiment tape +2? If I did play on your server, and I had enough WS tapes, I'd trade you one for a set of nice lights to put in the hallway of my house. Would you rather deal with me, or the other campers on your servers? I was actually here for that one, I believe I got it at about 0400 German Standard Time - which of you was in the Borgle caves at that time to get the spawn? I don't recall seeing anyone but my fellow campers at that time - another loot that would have been wasted if not for me and those like me.
Nutts
Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:39 am
#12
"This is exactly my point! It DOES need to be more available. But, who is going to make it more available? You?
Symphony wrote:
Nutts wrote:
"Before you flame me telling me that camping is wrong, and my entire argument is smoke and mirrors to justify my belief, I want you to honestly ask yourself WHY camping happens"
One word : Greed
You are absolutely correct. But, I'm not greedy. I camp for what I need because I refuse to pay millions of credits for anything in this game. 1) I don't have it and 2) I don't believe we should have to. Now, I will admit that when I first started looting the caves, my first thought was that I would finally be able to afford to buy the tapes, but I've changed my mind since then. I'm not going to sell any more tapes, but I'll trade the ones I have.
"If the consumer is not willing to pay the price for any particular item, the sellers MUST reduce their prices or the item will languish on shelves"
Then it would make sense that the prices would drop if the particular item were made more available, and they would not become more availableif there is a monopoly, actually the morepeople that gets their hands on an item the more available that item becomes.If there are any economists out there, they'll back me up on this.
This is exactly my point! It DOES need to be more available. But, who is going to make it more available? You? You sleep. The spawns that were going to happen while you were gone are wasted. SOMEONE needs to be there, 24/7 to put these spawns in the game. And, IMO, I'd rather it be me because I'm not going to exploit my fellow gamers. I just now looted a bleeding resistance +7. I have no idea what that's worth, but I'm not going to sell it for millions of credits - but I'll trade it to anyone on farstar for a comparable WS CA. Once I max my CAs, what do I need the money for? I'll trade it for a nice plant or couchto put in my house...
"If there were no money in it for the campers, they would NOT do it"
Im sure credit dupers say the same. Just because you make money loot camping doesn't justify it by any means, by camping the spawns/containers you rob other players the chance to get any loot and by doing so you make the loot less available and as an effect prices rise.
I'm not robbing anyone - if you're in game, you can beat my macro. It happens all the time and I am not complaining at all if you do it.
"Band together and take back your game - don't pay millions of credits for another single item. I will help"
Then I suggest you stop camping immediatly.
"Once I have my WS tapes, I'll sell it to you for a reasonable price, and not the millions others are charging."
How about giving the other Weaponsmith's and others a chance to get the loot for themselves? Why should they payan afk camperlike yourself for it?
Don't. Don't pay me a single credit. The only reason they wouldn't have a chance is if their /afk macro was not as efficient as mine. If they're in game, they have plenty of chances to beat it.
EDIT: How about arguing your views instead of doing the "1 star and run tactic", the word pathetic just gota new meaning.
I have been arguing my views. I amnot the one who is1-starring you. I have more maturity than that.
Message Edited by Nutts on 02-04-2005 09:13 AM
Its the Developers responsiblity at the end, but you and meare also responsible, and Im sure that camping is not the solution to make something more available.
Here is an idea:
To make POI loot ( Nyax / Containers etc) more available an integer value could be put on every container / special mob that would change when a player looted the container / special mob. When the value changes the player would no longer be able to loot from the same container / special mob again until next restart. If that could be implented it would kill all the camping and make the loot more accesible for everyone and as a result prices would drop, drastically. How would you feel if this was possible?
Symphony
Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:33 pm
#13
I think I'm going about explaining this in the wrong way. There are actually two separate issues at work here:
1) Camping
2) Overcharging/Player Greed
Camping is not right. It denies other players an equal chance to get at the goodies. Everyone should have a chance.
Overcharging is also not right. It separates the game into the haves and the have nots. And because of the overcharging, I believe it will get worse and worse. Those with credits to spend will get richer because they have a better chance at the real good stuff - they do more damage with their high powered (and expensive) equipment, etc. The guy with less credits will have to work harder and harder to compete.
For me, it's a choice between the lesser of two evils - I believe that overcharging is worse than camping. I believe that the guy that was going to get the loot instead of me was probably going to charge millions of credits for it. I believe that the guy who was going to get those containers was probably going to charge 6k for it on the bazaar. In fact, that's exactly what was happening until I (and those like me) started camping the meatlumps and selling the containers for reasonable prices.
If you'd like my opinion on how to fix camping, I say that the POIs, etc should have a separate instance for every player. The borgle caves, for example, only spawn loot once an hour. What's wrong with having it spawn loot for me once and hour, and loot for the other guy once and hour? That way, it's available for me and the casual gamer who happens to wander in. If I want to camp that spot in hopes of eventually getting a decent WS tape, I'm not hurting anyone because the guy who wanders in will still get something out of the pile. It will also make the tapes MUCH more widely available and help reduce the problem of overcharging.
But, we're not talking about how to fix it - I don't think the developers care enough to fix it. My argument is based on dealing with the current situation and I think that camping - by those with the morals to sell the stuff they get at reasonable prices - benefits the game and the people who play it.
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