Items And Loot Archive
Thread: Why I joined the dark side and started camping.
Symphony
Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:34 am
#27
Oh, so it's okay as long as you EARN it. So, if I spend months and months building up credits and buy the best weapon in the game, buying the best CAs and AAs in the game until I can kill Nyax in one shot, then I set up my macro to kill him repeatedly, then that would be okay? After all, I'm earning it each and every time, right? You don't have to answer, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't approve of that.
The fact is, I would bet that you camp in some form or fashion yourself. In fact, I think an argument can be made to classify the following as camping:
1) Repeatedly killing any static spawn just to get a chance at it's loot. You get bent out of shape if someone does this with Nyax, but no one seems to complain when it's done to the meatlumps, jabba's henchmen, etc. Camping is camping, and it doesn't matter if it's the guy with the uber loot, or the guys with the crappy loot - if you think it's wrong, then it's wrong all the time. How many of those static spawns have you killed trying to get the new Party Poster or Droid in Contrast?
By the way, don't flame me if you fall into this category, I'm perfectly okay with you trying to get this stuff - I say the more people have it, the better... In fact, the more stuff we put in the game, the more we find out about how the recyclers work, how the picture-widgets work, whatever.
2) Getting the good stuff in the game without having to earn it. You say that hanging out at the bottom of a POI waiting for the stuff to spawn is camping. How about if your guildmates send you a waypoint to a 90% resource with 999 OQ and you run there as fast as you can and drop 20 BER 13 harvesters on it before anyone else finds out. You didn't earn that - it was given to you.
Really, it doesn't matter if the resources WP was given to you or not - I was trying like crazy to find a decent spot to harvest some polonium iron today, but there were harvesters everywhere near the decent % spots. I was bummed, but I'm not writing the developers saying things like "***DEVS PLEASE READ***HARVESTERS ARE RUINING THE GAME. Should we make the harvesters reset to the players backpacks after an hour so that everyone else will have a chance to get the resources? You know it sounds ridiculous as soon as you read it, but that's exactly what you're saying needs to be done with the POIs.
Camping is not wrong. It's the campers that get the majority of the items in the game and have them in such quantities that they are able to experiment with them and give you the awesome posts like these two:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Itemsloot&message.id=21
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Itemsloot&message.id=4986
If these same campers turned around and sold you their goods for 1000 credits each, none of you would be complaining nearly as much about them. If you don't think this is true, then I believe YOU are in denial.
Alristico
Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:22 am
#28
Symphony wrote:
I'm sorry, but you'll have to do better than "duh". Take your time, think about it. If someone is at their keyboard and is camping the POI, how is that different than if someone is NOT at the keyboard but is still at the POI. Their actions are no different from mine, except that they might say "Hi" when, of course I won't. Other than that, I see absolutely no difference between the people I have seen in the borgle caves who play their characters, and those that put them on autopilot.
why do you think recursive macros are going to be eliminated? Its cause of people like you who gain player rewards by using home-made npc's.
what game would be more fun to PLAY. One where online players are competing for player rewards or one where bots are competing for player rewards? Remember this is a massive multiplayer online game.
Alristico
Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:46 pm
#29
stop trying to make horribly obvious excuses. Attachments are still millions of dollars even though peopel like you afk at borgle cave and camp nyax 24/7 and I'm certainly not worried about an increase in locked container prices lol.
Symphony wrote:
And you're okay with this? I'm telling you - if the developers nerf camping, you can forget about widespread loot for everyone. If people have to actually sit there and press the buttons to kill all the meatlumps, swoopers, etc it will take much longer to discover the different ways that the loot interacts with the gaming environment. Loot and the products of the combinable loot will be more rare, not less so. The prices will go up for these items as a result - particularly if someone had to sit there at the keyboard and kill meatlumps for 1 or 2 hours at a time to get a decent number of wires, blank canvas, etc. Be careful what you wish for, because it sounds like you're going to get it.
"We have chosen to move the game to a state where players actually play the game, not simply run virtual robots by means of macros."
it doesn't get more simple than this.
Alristico
Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:47 pm
#30
instead he afks at borgle cave for high end loot. How many millions do you think a swordsman speed +6 would go for?
micfiygd wrote:
nice post. as long as ur not one of the campers who only camp at nyax for high end loot.
Symphony
Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:03 pm
#31
Are you reading my posts? It would go for diddly. I'll trade it for a WS tape with similar stats (assuming I have one, I don't think I do). Once I max the WS stuff, I'll give it away - what do I need it for?
Alristico
Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:52 pm
#32
Symphony wrote:
Are you reading my posts? It would go for diddly. I'll trade it for a WS tape with similar stats (assuming I have one, I don't think I do). Once I max the WS stuff, I'll give it away - what do I need it for?
tell that to the player who would have gotten the attachment if you weren't using a bot to take it from him and then give it to someone else.
Symphony
Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:54 am
#33
I should play like you then. We'll pretend that there is no camping for a minute and I'm you.
Oh, sweet - I just looted a +10 WS tape. I'm not a WS, but that's okay, I know there are a hundred weaponsmiths out there I can exploit for about a cool 10 million or better for this.
Which one of us is better for the game and better for the community? You? You're r_ping your fellow players. Don't give me the crap that you earned it, you got lucky, you could have just as easily gotten grenades. If you'd gotten grenades, don't stick around and give it another go, you don't camp so you gotta let someone else in there to give it a shot. If there's no one else at that exact minute, it doesn't matter, they're sure to be around any minute... so you gotta clear out and give them their shot.
Or is it me that's better for the community? I'll get 100s of shots at decent loot, because I camp. And I'm giving them away like candy at Halloween. If you don't camp AND you're giving the loot away to the noob gamers out there, helping them along, etc - THEN I'll say that you are better than me. But if you're r_ping the other players, you're the one in the wrong, not me.
Symphony
Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:23 am
#34
And you're okay with this? I'm telling you - if the developers nerf camping, you can forget about widespread loot for everyone. If people have to actually sit there and press the buttons to kill all the meatlumps, swoopers, etc it will take much longer to discover the different ways that the loot interacts with the gaming environment. Loot and the products of the combinable loot will be more rare, not less so. The prices will go up for these items as a result - particularly if someone had to sit there at the keyboard and kill meatlumps for 1 or 2 hours at a time to get a decent number of wires, blank canvas, etc. Be careful what you wish for, because it sounds like you're going to get it.
micfiygd
Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:39 am
#35
nice post. as long as ur not one of the campers who only camp at nyax for high end loot.
Alristico
Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:39 am
#36
Symphony wrote:
I should play like you then. We'll pretend that there is no camping for a minute and I'm you.
Oh, sweet - I just looted a +10 WS tape. I'm not a WS, but that's okay, I know there are a hundred weaponsmiths out there I can exploit for about a cool 10 million or better for this.
Which one of us is better for the game and better for the community? You? You're r_ping your fellow players. Don't give me the crap that you earned it, you got lucky, you could have just as easily gotten grenades. If you'd gotten grenades, don't stick around and give it another go, you don't camp so you gotta let someone else in there to give it a shot. If there's no one else at that exact minute, it doesn't matter, they're sure to be around any minute... so you gotta clear out and give them their shot.
Or is it me that's better for the community? I'll get 100s of shots at decent loot, because I camp. And I'm giving them away like candy at Halloween. If you don't camp AND you're giving the loot away to the noob gamers out there, helping them along, etc - THEN I'll say that you are better than me. But if you're r_ping the other players, you're the one in the wrong, not me.
i find it really funny how you're trying to make excuses for getting good player rewards by not playing the game. A player who plays and doesn't exploit or use fowl language and is nice to others even during competition (me) will always be better for the game then a bot taking player rewards away from honest players and supposedly giving them away to others to flood the market and lower prices, which by the way, doesn't work with attachments. Go back to looting locked containers cause nobody cares about making an extra grand on them. They care about making an extra million on attachments.
cpz
Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:56 am
#37
Symphony wrote:
Oh, so it's okay as long as you EARN it.
Yes
So, if I spend months and months building up credits and buy the best weapon in the game, buying the best CAs and AAs in the game until I can kill Nyax in one shot, then I set up my macro to kill him repeatedly, then that would be okay? After all, I'm earning it each and every time, right? You don't have to answer, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't approve of that.
Please stopcreating hypothetical instances as the mainstay of your argument. If your point is would I have a problem with players camping Nynax, then yes I would, if they're doingit afk.
1) Repeatedly killing any static spawn just to get a chance at it's loot. You get bent out of shape if someone does this with Nyax, but no one seems to complain when it's done to the meatlumps, jabba's henchmen, etc. Camping is camping, and it doesn't matter if it's the guy with the uber loot, or the guys with the crappy loot - if you think it's wrong, then it's wrong all the time. How many of those static spawns have you killed trying to get the new Party Poster or Droid in Contrast?
Of course there is an issue with looping macros allowing afk camping. Yes, Meatlump grinding annpys me, but is less of a priority because people killing Meatlumps doesn't affect my game as greatly as Borgle campers.If I clear the Borgle Cave, I should be able to claim the reward. As it stands I can't because exploiters have afk teleport looters. This is the highest priority for me. Address that issue first, then we can do something about the other afk camping.
2) Getting the good stuff in the game without having to earn it. You say that hanging out at the bottom of a POI waiting for the stuff to spawn is camping. How about if your guildmates send you a waypoint to a 90% resource with 999 OQ and you run there as fast as you can and drop 20 BER 13 harvesters on it before anyone else finds out. You didn't earn that - it was given to you.
Do you honestly believe what you're writing? You honestly think the two are comparable? By even starting to address the point you're trying to make I'm giving it a validity it doesn't deserve....but what the hell...the surveyor earned that knowledge. The knowledge is his reward, not the resource. The resource still has to be mined, which costs maintenance and time. Therefore if he passes that information to me, I put a harvestor, I earn the resource by paying for the harvestor. Duh.
If we make it comparable, what you and your sort do is place harvestors that mine all the best resource from a static spawn point, leaving none available for any other players. And you don't pay any kind of maintenence or deposit any power in these harvestors. And theydon't evenexist in the game, so they're not even landscape decoration.
Camping is not wrong.
I beg to differ and yourarguments are so flimsy that you haven't come close to convincing me that you even have a coherent point ot make. I have - camping is unethical because by camping loot drop sites you take the reward meant for players who complete the associated tasks. AFK Camping removes loot meant for real players and as such reduces their gaming experience.
Now argue my points.
It's the campers that get the majority of the items in the game and have them in such quantities that they are able to experiment with them and give you the awesome posts like these two:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Itemsloot&message.id=21
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Itemsloot&message.id=4986
So you're now painting afk campers as saints, who we shoudl cherish? Give it a rest. All I see is information about game loot. You don't need to afk camp to learn that.
these same campers turned around and sold you their goods for 1000 credits each, none of you would be complaining nearly as much about them. If you don't think this is true, then I believe YOU are in denial.
The fact that loot is monopolised is my issue. That I can never loot the Borgle Cave withotu exploiting the game is my issue. And again, you're using hypothetical arguments. The fact is they're not for sale for 1000c so your point is invalid. Duh.
TheWalkinCarpet
Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:18 am
#38
I gave you 4 *s for the well thought out and explained analysis of your situation, and I think you make a very valid argument. However, I'm really against AFK macro looting. I'm tired of going to Lord Nyax to try to kill him to get some loot and find an AFK Master Swordsman/TKM there killing him every time he spawns. And that goes for every camped cave/POI. Lord Nyax, Geo Caves, Borgle Cave, Aukuan Cave, you name it. Although I do salute you for giving many of these valuable attachments away for free, I still don't think it justifies your actions when other people actually put the effort into getting these. But whatever everyone's opinion is I guess it will be changing soon when they get rid of looping macros.
Oh, almost forgot. I have no problem with you AFK killing Meatlumps or other city-based NPCs. They're everywhere, and you can get missions for them, so it's not like you're preventing others from getting loot from them.
Symphony
Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:24 pm
#39
Well, I think this horse has been beaten to death, and I don't see any reason to beat it any more. You're not going to convince me that you're right, and I'm not going to convince you that I'm right - no reason to argue about it any longer. Instead, I'll summarize our respective viewpoints as I see them. If I got them wrong, then please feel free to correct.
Your viewpoint:
1) AFK camping is wrong. ATK camping is okay, as long as it's not at a major POI
2) Charging outrageous amounts of credits for loot is fine since you feel you earned the loot
3) ATK camping POIs and AFK camping in general hurt the game.
My viewpoint:
1) Camping is camping - it doesn't matter if it is at the keyboard, or away from it. It doesn't matter where you do it, whether it's meatlumps or Nyax.
2) Camping in all its various methods contributes more loot to the game, making it more widely available to all who want it
3) It is NEVER okay to exploit your fellow gamers. If you don't need or want a particular item, give it to someone who does need it or want it.
At this point, none of the objections listed under "your viewpoint" are enough to sway me that my viewpoint is wrong. If someone has something new to add to the "your viewpoint" column or if I've gotten it all wrong, please let me know.