Image Designer Archive
Thread: Odim's UI issues
SunsetSam wrote:
Odim wrote:
An image designer is awalking image dispensing machines it just seems that no one can come to terms with that. The customer wouldn't be able to "see" what your doing, he/she would just see all the options available. If you asked any customer thats what they would want.
And I think right here, in this one statement, we have the distilation of Odim's complete argument and position. In the final analysis from everything that has been posted by this person, I draw the conclusion he does not want a human intereactive experience involving personal asthetics. It is my personal opinion that the only reason that he's not advocating the complete removal of the profession and replacing it with static kiosk in the starport or cantina is that he'd actually be forced to pay a set rate everytime for every change. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm going to guess you meant "aesthetics" ? I fail to see how this threatens aesthetics, if anything it adds more to the palette. If a person doesn't know what they're options are, then they are less likely to pick the one best suited for them. Remember this is their avatar NOT yours. As for your personal opinion, Yes you are 100% correct, my multimillion dollar bank account we be surely broken, everytime I had a pay a miniscule fee. Ya know since I ID myself sooo often. Right.
From what I've been able to determine from reading and research is that Image Design was originally part of the Medic profession and sometime between Beta and Live it was moved to Entertainer. There is a reason that ID is part of the entertianment tree. The process, when approached with the right frame of mind, is more than simply clicking buttons and moving sliders. It's a very interactive process with comment, suggestions, feedback, and brainstorming between two people.
Keep telling yourself that, you people thinkyou're somenew age Da Vinci's. News flash::: Anyone can do this profession, ANYONE. In fact there isn't a profession in the game that ANYONE couldn't do. Wow, I know... it baffles the mind. To lay your meager concerns to rest, this doesn't threaten your so called "interactive process". Its like giving a kid a coloring book, but keeping the box of crayons behind your back and only handing them out on request.
The more Odim argues, the more I have to rethink my position on several key points that have been discussed in these forums. I chose the entertianment trees for the very reason that I like that level of social interaction with my fellow players. I made Master Dancer, Master Entertainer, and what skill I'm able to get with Musicianship all live, ATK, and have taken pride that I have never macrotained. I worked my way through the ranks in Coronet Cantina (one of the two macrotainer hell's, Theed being the other one) as one of the handful of live entertainers. Most people loved it. I'd greet and talk to people. Ask how thier day was going, stuff like that. People appreciated it greatly. I still hang out there on occasion to still give that human touch in a sea of robots.
You start this paragraph by enticing the reader, promising that several key points will be covered. It doesn't happen.
My point is, all the entertainment and artisan professions can be replaced quite easily by protocol droids and kiosks. Want a new set of clothes, take the raw materials to a station, deposit them in a hopper, hit a few buttons and there you go. Tired from fighting? Go to a booth and watch some vids "holo-dancers". Hurt, go to the medical center and let the autodoc fix you (don't know if anyone's figured out how to automate that one yet IRL, but I'm sure it's being worked on.) What does that leave for the game? Fighting. Going out and whacking critters and/or other players. Keep the medics around because it's convenient in battle. Do all of that and you ultimatly destroy the game. People play for a variety of reasons. People choose and stick with professions for a variaty of reasons.
Your point is what? That things can be replaced by kiosks and droids? Wow thats quite the revelation. I bet you didn't know you can replace sugar with Sweet nd low, but it tastes worse. This paragraph is fluff, its full of superfluous information,that does nothing but reiterate the obvious. "People choose and stick with professions for a variety of reasons" Thank you Nostradamus. No one would've guess that without you devine powers of intuition.
What I am not, though, is a walking automated walking image dispensing machine. I am not an automated walking clothes dispensor. I am not a walking automated fatigue reducer. You get the idea. The services I offer are secondary to the human element that I bring to these professions. You may not like it, but I'll be damned if I let you trivialize what I do, or who I am.
Unless your avatar has no legs, you can walk and unless you forgot to wear your helmet today, and stumbled into the wrong forum, I'm going to assume you're an Image Designer. If both previous statements are true, then you are a walking image designer. As an image designer you dispense images. If all previous statements are true, you are a walking image dispensing "animal" You wouldn't really be a machine now come on. No one here is threatening your human element. If you don't like changing a chin live, don't do it, play your silly games and waste your own time and that of others. If you ask any customer being ID'd they'd vote in my favor or better yet, ask the ones that refused to get ID'd why they won't . You'll have your answer right there, and you'll have the basis for my request.
I'm sorry I can really see you put forth a lot of effort on this reply. If my replies seem pejorative. Thats because they are. Attacking me presumptiously on a personal scale suggesting I'm only in it to save measly credits, probably brought it on yourself.I appreciate your reply but I can't seem to find one single point in your entire reply.
/rant
Sorry, sort of soapboxy there.
Troll Blood it is that smell I Yes Yes Troll blood is stronge in this one called Odim. "ummm" shacks head
High-jacker/Thread thef not said I, Troll said I.
The customer knows what flourishes he wants to see so he should have control of them?
The customer knows what experimentation he wants on that ____ your making for him so he should have control of them?
NPCs know what traps you should use, so they should control the use of them.
etc etc etc etc
The difference is these don't reflect a change on said persons physical appearence, which if you haven't noticed, is important to each individual.
Sir_Voor wrote:
The customer knows what flourishes he wants to see so he should have control of them?
The customer knows what experimentation he wants on that ____ your making for him so he should have control of them?
NPCs know what traps you should use, so they should control the use of them.
etc etc etc etc
Kwee wrote:
This thread is getting very negative, let's please let it die. There is obviously no way anyone's mind will be changed on the matter...
I agree. Someone please lock this thead or at least no one post in it anymore! Yes, I know I just broke my promise never to post in this thread again. 
Go ahead and post to your hearts content, you're not being silenced. You're being ignored. You've stated your opinion, we've stated ours.
Odim wrote:
Yes lets silence others for expressing their opinions. I pay the same monthly fee you do.
Ok, I'll post here again.
Crying to have this thread locked isn't asking for silence, it's to foster moving on. This topic has been debated ad-nauseum from both sides. Over half of this thread is repeated in various posts over and over. There has been no new insight or debacle after the original post and replies in the other thread. It's the proverbial "beating a dead horse" routine.
As I said several days ago this thread has gotten seemingly personal from both sides, a shouting match really. The attitude you seem to engender here Odim is partly from when you first came here. Making a post to the effect of "I mastered Image Design in 22 minutes" and reiterating that fact whenever someone posts how long it took them comes across as very ostentatious. In addition, correcting people's spellings such as "you mean aesthetics" comes across as grandiose. Read this and see how it can seem: you mean pray tell and not "pretell" right? I know exactly what you ment when you said "pretell." When one corrects another's post in the manner as that there's only two reasons for it that I can think of: to show one the proper spelling, or to try and "boost"oneself over someone trying to make it seemthey aremore intelligible and thus their viewpoint is more correct. Another point to note is that wordplay and one sentence posts are not conducive to discussion, anddiscussion is the reason why we're here.
Now on the other hand, some people have been taking "shots" at Odim. They see themselves in a defensive position and "strike out" at what they see as the source. This leads to focused and personal posts to attempt to reduce that person's argument.
Regarding the point of this post there are a few issues. Many enjoy the Image Design profession how it is, where the player possessing the profession can use a creative eye to attain the client's desire. One can argue that this is the more realistic approach as in real life you can't say "take my cheeks down one notch." There's no unit of measure in life for "one notch" of cheeks. It's ultimately up to the client and professional to decide what the desired amount is. This conundrum was magnified when sliders andselections were assigned numbers. While I am glad there are numbers there it can lead to where a 74 cheek is considered too small and a 75-90 is deemed normal. If you don't think that's the case look at the matter of weight. Being overweight and moreso obesity is frowned upon in the general populace of the world, however many are. Inside the game very very few do have regular characters they play that are overweight/obese. The ones that are generally fit under the "I'm bored so I'm going to go play around a bit" category. In the game you can hold a perfect figure with nearly no hassle that such a state would require in real life. People tend to cling to normalcy.
Changing the current system to one where the Image designer offers a GUI with a selection of changes to the client, where the client selects the changes manually does have advantages. The client can see what they're getting right up front with all their choices and can make an exact selection of what they want. It will likely save the client and the professional time. The benefits of this approach are the client gets what they want and quickly. The downside, the professional spends 92 skill points to attain master to open up a gui for a customer and click on the selection they choose.
Taking into account the history of the game, I doubt there will ever be a change to such a system. SOE has repeatedly worked toward more interraction within the game. Most professions require items and skills from other professions, and even more can utilize them to maximize their profession. Image Design is different in that it doesn't require any other profession to be fruitful. Seeing how the other entertainer professions are similar and are not debated to being changed to a client-powered system, Image Design is not likely to either. Because professions under the entertainer heading aren't too dependent upon other professions (the only case being resources from artisans to make instruments) they have been designed to have heavy professional-client interraction. A customer-oriented system strays from this idea and is why Idon't forseea change like this will happen to either ID, Musician, or Dancer.
The point has been debated here and so far it seems Odim is the only one for a client-powered system. There's really nothing more to be said about it.
Message Edited by Nevs on 03-09-2004 01:17 PM
Nevs wrote:
Changing the current system to one where the Image designer offers a GUI with a selection of changes to the client, where the client selects the changes manually does have advantages. The client can see what they're getting right up front with all their choices and can make an exact selection of what they want. It will likely save the client and the professional time. The benefits of this approach are the client gets what they want and quickly. The downside, the professional spends 92 skill points to attain master to open up a gui for a customer and click on the selection they choose
Message Edited by Odim on 03-09-2004 12:53 PM