Image Designer Archive
Thread: What!! People mastering IM in 3 hours!! This is wrong
Message Edited by ToppDog on 03-28-2005 06:46 PM
Nouva wrote:It was not fun and engaging - is looking at a timer tick down fun? It was boring, pure and simple. At the end of the grind, I did not feel like I had accomplished anything, only relief that the horrid grind was over. If I had been grinding ID for the first time, I would have learned absolutely nothing from the advancement system, particularly since the most efficient method of advancing, stat migration, did not involve learning a dang thing about changing a person's appearance.
Maybe instaed of looking at the timer, a good designer should be looking atthe client's toon and thought of new ways to design them. It is only boring because individuals with a "instant gratification" personality want thier gains fast. There is really nothing wrong with that, it is called power-gaming. Power-gamers whether you like them or not, are vital for detecting bugs before the casual gamer discovers them. If anything, powergamers benefit the casual gamer in that the casual gamer enjoys the higher end content because it is fixed. Back to my point...While the timer ticks down, you could also speak with your client and suggest new approaches most others would not dare attempt. I rememebr this one woman wanted to look "punk" but the mohawk was over used. She also wanted to be "noble." As the timer ticked down I went through various hair designs and coordinated eyebrows and cosmetics. Taking extra time to learn your profession separates the exceptionals from the jobbers.
It's not that most image designers are "doing it wrong" or too socially inept to engage the client. Many clients who want stat migrations do not want their hair messed with. At that point, we are left to watch the timer.
EiYoto wrote:
The quality of my work is decided by my customers and not by myself.
It seems they are going to remove the timers for cosmetical changes soon, so you'll be able to grind to master in a few hours solo.
Please do not encourage that type of behavior. It only leads to yet another master on a server with 0% talent.
...so you'll be able to grind to master in a few hours solo...
That would not encourage him to grind to master in a few hours? I think what would be better to have told him is, "While it will be possible to master ID in under a day, true masters take thier time and explore the class so that they benefit the community as a whole and earn the respect of thier fellow players."
Message Edited by Nouva on 03-29-2005 06:00 PM
Nouva wrote:
I was with this profession before many of you probably knew there was even a forum for this game pre-beta. I was in the first stages of beta when it was closed and many were still reading forums, wondering what the game looked like. I helped shape this profession as well as the other entertainer professions along with the handful of other testers asked to assist in the pre-beta testing. So let's not cross swords on a profession I practically help build, kay?
i was vague the last time i was pointed to your posts as a source of amusement, but this time ill be more direct. nobody cares. you could be an ex dev and that doesnt validate your opinion any more. stop blowing your own horn in every long winded post you make. your entire panty twisted complaint fest should have been cut out and just left to this.
Nouva wrote:
I was with this profession before many of you probably knew there was even a forum for this game pre-beta. I was in the first stages of beta when it was closed and many were still reading forums, wondering what the game looked like. I helped shape this profession as well as the other entertainer professions along with the handful of other testers asked to assist in the pre-beta testing. So let's not cross swords on a profession I practically help build, kay?
But I am not one to complain civily without providing solutions. So here goes. Even Dancer/Musician takes over 1-2 weeks, and that is with 8 hour afk grinds with food/doc buffs.Let's note that this XP is based upon being in a full band of at least 10 groupies, if you are solo, the xp per flourish is considerably less. Why should we be any different? So if we are not to have a timer, I suggest an alternative. Give us XP advancments in our trees similar to the other entertainers. Let the xp given per design be less that it is now so it would be on par with a dancer/musician flourish. I could live with that, if the profession was to be without a timer. This way, the time it takes to become a master isn't much of a joke any longer. I did it in beta and in launch, it certainly would not kill anyone new to the profession to do it as well, if they want it bad enough.
And because I love retorting, I'll humor this inquiry:
Because you do, with your continual implication that we are not 'real' IDs for whatever reason.
I never said you were not a real ID. You assumed to believe that you are not based upon my presentation of teh truth, hence your frustration and anger, and attempt to pin me with alienating you from the community. As if I am some sort of elitist. Let's not cross that line againj, shall we?
nothing to say here but ya you totally come across as an elitist. not like you brag about million credit tips for services you love to provide or anything like that. since that would just me silly and elitist.
Well, I'm sorry. I don't get million credit tips from people who only want a hair color change.
I do...
doh nm!
I don't have people swearing fealty to me for being the server goddess of image design.
I do...
well at least we cleared up the elitism.
Then again, I also don't have to post with my alt character just to have someone agreeing with me.
Nor do I. At least we have something in common...You must be past your bedtime, as am I, because I don't know where this came from out of nowhere...
wow id love to have the folks that post here more dig up the history on that one! sounds fun.
i love the id forums!! this place is fun.
/grouphug
I could care less that you 'practically helped build' anything. I'm sorry that your precious profession has evolved into something you disdain to share with other people. . .
i was vague the last time i was pointed to your posts as a source of amusement, but this time ill be more direct. nobody cares. you could be an ex dev and that doesnt validate your opinion any more.. .
And that is why the profession is where it is at today... because nobody cares. You have accepted what the profession has become and will fight tooth and nail to preserve it. And you should all care that I helped practically build theImage Design Profession, because without my voice, along with a vocal few others,in the early stages of closed beta, this profession would not even exist. So excuse me if I have some sort of attachment to the profession. My opinions, whether you agree or not, should at least hold some water, if not for anything, my experience in it's development.
Call me long-winded. Call me an elitist. Call me what you will, but you can never call me someone that does "not care." 
Rrowann wrote:
ToppDog - Please please consider the potential of requiring people to discover / experiment with all their new options before getting to the next box. That would require things like us trying to find female Trandoshans and Mon Cals or something.
LOL, don't worry... the devs would never put in that kind of effort to make learning a profession meaningful. That's just how I would have done it if I had been the one to design it. I would make leveling every profession entirely mission based (like the Jedi revamp was supposed to be) & each mission would introduce you to a new skill, & after successfully learning that skill, you would move on to the next mission to learn the next skill, etc. This would continue until you had learned every skill that your profession had to offer, & then you would be granted the master title. The problem you mentioned in the case of female Trandoshans & Mon Cals wouldnot really be an issue, because you would bevisiting npc's of those species/gender for thosemissions, etc.
Basically, each profession would have a tutorial or basic training of sorts like you have at the beginning of some FPS games, or like the intro missions by the green helper droids, except they would cover more, etc.
We'll never see anything like this in SWG, but someday MMORPG's will change & be more of an online world where all other game types meet. Then maybe we'll see each profession's training phase play out like complete single player games.
"Game experience may change during play". Game experience changed, more people came into the picture, it's time to adapt to the people who are in the picture now, not to remake what the scene looked like two years ago.
Rrowann, hologrindersand theonslaught of comabt professions trying to grind out thier precious holo-professiondictated the course of our profession. It was not a healthy change for the better. And not something you should adapt to. If the changes were honestly voted on by the community, which they were not, I would accept change. Some of the community accepted, even supported the changes from development because any attention to the profession they believed was better than no attention at all. It was something that I opposed and vocally spoke out against, and was alienated because of it. My opinions have not changed...
My experience as a veteran and a primary feedback/innovater of the profession does put me at an advantage whether you wish to accept that or not. To not acknowledge my wisdom would be acting in haste. I seen many changes done without thought of what would happen in the long term...Take ID tents. I had forsight that they would be a bane upon masters...I was disagreed with countless times, and you know what? They turned out to be a pain in a butt, right? Now we want what I suggested up front, player city tents... guess where that is? On the back burner. And why?
Yea-Sayers: "Oh because Starting City tents would be WAY COOL! YEA! WOOOO!"
Me: "Umm think about it people, they will be bad for both masters and novices. Novices will get no business with a Master ID in a tent. Masters will be pulled form thier activities to run to a starting city."
Yea-Sayers: "Be quite Nouva, you are always so negative, you are always bringing us down. The devs are so cool to give us this awesome content...must follow the carrot...must follow the carrot..."
Me: "Hookay... what do I know? I only been helping develop this profession since it was a blank slate..."
Yea-Sayers: "Yea yea yea... quit being an elitist and ...etc... yaddah yaddah...you stink...how dare you...etc...no one cares..."
Deja Vous...
:a month later:
Yea-Sayers: "This sucks! I have to go ALLL the way to Naboo to do a stat migration and I'm on Lok. We need a alternate solution to this Starting city tent..."
Yea-Sayers: "What the heck?! How is a struggling ID supposed to get business or XP with 3 masters in a tent. No one goes on my line..."
Me: "Why not have the Masters raise prices on ID to like 500k, this way novices will get the xp? It's what I do."
Yea-Sayers: "What? I work off tips, and I work for free and... how can you do that to someone who needs a stat migration?! You stink...elitist... I don't see how clients put up with you..."
:months later:
Yea-Sayers: "Just by raising the price on migrations encourages others to see a novice..."
Priceless... simply priceless...
Message Edited by Nouva on 03-30-2005 01:00 PM