Image Designer Archive
Thread: What!! People mastering IM in 3 hours!! This is wrong
Message Edited by Mystyrys on 04-01-2005 05:55 AM
I'm not an MID yet but was planning to before the new timers hit TC. When they did I was estatic, I did a little bit of grinding but spent my time doing other things because I knew the new timers were coming. Now that they are here my PC has decided to play up and not let my get onto SWG
I suspect there will be alot of people picking up ID just to give it a try because it's so quick but I don't really expect the timers to cause any real change in the number of MIDs about. The SP change will bring more to the proffesion but they will mostly be the pure ents who would have taken the hard road if they'd had enough SP at the time.
Masterim, you are never going to get any sort of 'reward' for grinding out ID the old way. Plenty of folks have done that, some of us more than once (I've mastered it four times total; poor Maisland has mastered ID something like eleven or twelve times). There are a lot of folks who've mastered it the hard way. Just because someone's able to do it a little faster doesn't make them any less deserving of playing an ID than you are. Chill out.
The reward for doing ID the hard way is the feeling of accomplishment and respect from the combat community whereby mastering a profession that is difficult to climb. The timer made ID a worthy profession to master in the age of hologrinding and warrented respect for any with the discipline to master it. People who do not care enough to explore the profession and grind it out in under an hour, certainly do not deserve to be called an Image Designer, they are more like chop shop attendents, sloppy, inexperienced and cheap. I am appauled taht anyone in this community would want to cheapen our profession to the point it has already become, but my words fall upon deaf ears anyway. It is quite obvious many in this game like instant gratification and care little for the impact it has in the long run.
Image Design has always been a side profession where the ID's never truly relied upon it as their only source of income. Most have other masters in other non-combat professions, such as tailor, doctor, dancer, or musician.
This is simply not true. Many ID's became ID's beacause they desired to be one as a primary profession. Secondary professions for ID's only came about out of necessity because macro-masters and hologrinders all but populated the field and killed the id industry economy by offering free, albight horrible, designs to otherwise customers who did not know better to see a talented ID. For many designers, there is no way to advertise thier exceptional talent other than word of mouth. Many players think that we just poin-click, design. This is simply not the case, as artistic talent is indeed involved.
On another hand there is the ID-combat template simply created due to too few ID's on any given server, and the need for interdependancy (for changing stats), spawned this hybrid. Hopefully when stat mitigation is removed from us, we will see this template die off and keep ID in thenon-combat community where it belongs.
I am deeply upset that the timer is leaving. I support ATK playstyle and macroing is on a fine line with it's similar zombie-like style. If they rid of the timer, they need to make the profession impossible to macro with heavy mind WOUNDS given to the ID. This way, an ID would have to take time out, stop, and rest at a cantina after a hard day's work.
DarthVisible wrote:
Masterim, you are never going to get any sort of 'reward' for grinding out ID the old way. Plenty of folks have done that, some of us more than once (I've mastered it four times total; poor Maisland has mastered ID something like eleven or twelve times). There are a lot of folks who've mastered it the hard way. Just because someone's able to do it a little faster doesn't make them any less deserving of playing an ID than you are. Chill out.
The reward for doing ID the hard way is the feeling of accomplishment and respect from the combat community whereby mastering a profession that is difficult to climb. The timer made ID a worthy profession to master in the age of hologrinding and warrented respect for any with the discipline to master it. People who do not care enough to explore the profession and grind it out in under an hour, certainly do not deserve to be called an Image Designer, they are more like chop shop attendents, sloppy, inexperienced and cheap. I am appauled taht anyone in this community would want to cheapen our profession to the point it has already become, but my words fall upon deaf ears anyway. It is quite obvious many in this game like instant gratification and care little for the impact it has in the long run.
Image Design has always been a side profession where the ID's never truly relied upon it as their only source of income. Most have other masters in other non-combat professions, such as tailor, doctor, dancer, or musician.
This is simply not true. Many ID's became ID's beacause they desired to be one as a primary profession. Secondary professions for ID's only came about out of necessity because macro-masters and hologrinders all but populated the field and killed the id industry economy by offering free, albight horrible, designs to otherwise customers who did not know better to see a talented ID. For many designers, there is no way to advertise thier exceptional talent other than word of mouth. Many players think that we just poin-click, design. This is simply not the case, as artistic talent is indeed involved.
On another hand there is the ID-combat template simply created due to too few ID's on any given server, and the need for interdependancy (for changing stats), spawned this hybrid. Hopefully when stat mitigation is removed from us, we will see this template die off and keep ID in thenon-combat community where it belongs.
I am deeply upset that the timer is leaving. I support ATK playstyle and macroing is on a fine line with it's similar zombie-like style. If they rid of the timer, they need to make the profession impossible to macro with heavy mind WOUNDS given to the ID. This way, an ID would have to take time out, stop, and rest at a cantina after a hard day's work.
It was not fun and engaging - is looking at a timer tick down fun? It was boring, pure and simple. At the end of the grind, I did not feel like I had accomplished anything, only relief that the horrid grind was over. If I had been grinding ID for the first time, I would have learned absolutely nothing from the advancement system, particularly since the most efficient method of advancing, stat migration, did not involve learning a dang thing about changing a person's appearance.
It may make our clients sleep well at night knowing that we suffered through the timers to master the profession, but at the end of the day, suffering through the timers doesn't necessarily herald a knowledge about or dedication to the profession. It's simply what a person determines he or she is willing to put up with, or what a person has time to do.
For me, personally, finishing ID the timer way didn't give me a sense of accomplishment. It was a pointless exercise that wasted my time and taught me absolutely nothing. It was an ordeal, not an experience.
It was un-fun, and a game that I pay for should be fun. I didn't say easy, necessarily. Give me something difficult and fun, and I'm there. But difficult and boring - no thanks.
This change makes it less boring, but less difficult. We were hoping for challenging and fun, but that didn't happen. At least it's not so incredibly un-fun. Difficulty should not trump fun. Ever. Not for something we pay for to have fun.
In conclusion, I give the timers a big fat F minus, and emote a /rude in their general direction. May they never plague us again.
It was not fun and engaging - is looking at a timer tick down fun? It was boring, pure and simple. At the end of the grind, I did not feel like I had accomplished anything, only relief that the horrid grind was over. If I had been grinding ID for the first time, I would have learned absolutely nothing from the advancement system, particularly since the most efficient method of advancing, stat migration, did not involve learning a dang thing about changing a person's appearance.
Maybe instaed of looking at the timer, a good designer should be looking atthe client's toon and thought of new ways to design them. It is only boring because individuals with a "instant gratification" personality want thier gains fast. There is really nothing wrong with that, it is called power-gaming. Power-gamers whether you like them or not, are vital for detecting bugs before the casual gamer discovers them. If anything, powergamers benefit the casual gamer in that the casual gamer enjoys the higher end content because it is fixed. Back to my point...While the timer ticks down, you could also speak with your client and suggest new approaches most others would not dare attempt. I rememebr this one woman wanted to look "punk" but the mohawk was over used. She also wanted to be "noble." As the timer ticked down I went through various hair designs and coordinated eyebrows and cosmetics. Taking extra time to learn your profession separates the exceptionals from the jobbers.
Ask yourself this, would you go to a hairstylist the day of your wedding knowing she (your hairstylist)just got out of Design School, albight graduated in 1 hour? Or would you want to trust your hair for that special day to a Hair Stylist who had years of training and expertise under her belt? In my line of work, in real life, image is everything next to talent. You take no chances and go for the best. The best will always be patroned.
Some of you may love the timer, as I do. Many of you may hate the timer. To those I say, look at the big picture before wanting your instant gratification.Some of the outcomes of a timer removal without a definitive way to slow progression would be:
1.) Overpopulation of the profession: One of the many perks many of us ID's like is the fact that we are rarer than jedi, talented Masters even more rare than a GM-run event. Without a way to slow progression, you will have hundreds of ID's to compete with and your profession will seemingly have less value unless you are the TOP on your server. Face facts, the most successful crafters, entertainers and ID's are popular figures that everyone knows. It is difficult to build name recognition on a server without aggressive advertising. It is possible however, to do so. In which case, most of your time to win clients will be advertising.Without clients you will be a master who designs herself for fun. Some of you become ID's just to do that very thing! And that is great!
2.) Bugs will never get hammered out effeciently: If all you do is grind to Master using eye color, how will you ever be useful in detecting bugs all the way up the tree? You want to be a useful member of the community, take the time to design ALL body/face options on ALL species. You cant do that with a macro and it certainly is not possible with a grind in one hour. Test Center is not teh only place where bugs surface. A good member of the community cares enough to learn all aspects of the profession they play. With a timer, you can spend the countdown finding these errors, as the time it takes to pass, it can be easier to backtrack and remember what was done.
3.) Lack of Respect: Reality check, players respect effort. Reality check two; players pay ID's because we argue that you pay us for our time to learn the profession. Now whilemany of you ID for free and for fun, SOME of us ID for a living on our servers. It is all well and good to say you want to be a master now and ID for fun, but masters who charge for service will be hindered as a whole, as the ease of learning to design makes us look a farce. I can see it now, "10k for a skin color change? LOL LOL LOL! I'll master ID in an hour and do it myself, see ya!" Think it wont happen, just wait...
Some of you think a boost in our numbers will garnish us more development attention. Reality check: Numbers do not garnish more attention, strong voices with the courage to not accept what is given, but to ask for what is wanted do...
Message Edited by Nouva on 03-28-2005 07:25 PM
Message Edited by Nouva on 03-28-2005 07:26 PM
Nouva wrote:
It was not fun and engaging - is looking at a timer tick down fun? It was boring, pure and simple. At the end of the grind, I did not feel like I had accomplished anything, only relief that the horrid grind was over. If I had been grinding ID for the first time, I would have learned absolutely nothing from the advancement system, particularly since the most efficient method of advancing, stat migration, did not involve learning a dang thing about changing a person's appearance.
Maybe instaed of looking at the timer, a good designer should be looking atthe client's toon and thought of new ways to design them. It is only boring because individuals with a "instant gratification" personality want thier gains fast. There is really nothing wrong with that, it is called power-gaming. Power-gamers whether you like them or not, are vital for detecting bugs before the casual gamer discovers them. If anything, powergamers benefit the casual gamer in that the casual gamer enjoys the higher end content because it is fixed. Back to my point...While the timer ticks down, you could also speak with your client and suggest new approaches most others would not dare attempt. I rememebr this one woman wanted to look "punk" but the mohawk was over used. She also wanted to be "noble." As the timer ticked down I went through various hair designs and coordinated eyebrows and cosmetics. Taking extra time to learn your profession separates the exceptionals from the jobbers.
Ask yourself this, would you go to a hairstylist the day of your wedding knowing she (your hairstylist)just got out of Design School, albight graduated in 1 hour? Or would you want to trust your hair for that special day to a Hair Stylist who had years of training and expertise under her belt? In my line of work, in real life, image is everything next to talent. You take no chances and go for the best. The best will always be patroned.
Some of you may love the timer, as I do. Many of you may hate the timer. To those I say, look at the big picture before wanting your instant gratification.Some of the outcomes of a timer removal without a definitive way to slow progression would be:
1.) Overpopulation of the profession: One of the many perks many of us ID's like is the fact that we are rarer than jedi, talented Masters even more rare than a GM-run event. Without a way to slow progression, you will have hundreds of ID's to compete with and your profession will seemingly have less value unless you are the TOP on your server. Face facts, the most successful crafters, entertainers and ID's are popular figures that everyone knows. It is difficult to build name recognition on a server without aggressive advertising. It is possible however, to do so. In which case, most of your time to win clients will be advertising.Without clients you will be a master who designs herself for fun. Some of you become ID's just to do that very thing! And that is great!
2.) Bugs will never get hammered out effeciently: If all you do is grind to Master using eye color, how will you ever be useful in detecting bugs all the way up the tree? You want to be a useful member of the community, take the time to design ALL body/face options on ALL species. You cant do that with a macro and it certainly is not possible with a grind in one hour. Test Center is not teh only place where bugs surface. A good member of the community cares enough to learn all aspects of the profession they play. With a timer, you can spend the countdown finding these errors, as the time it takes to pass, it can be easier to backtrack and remember what was done.
3.) Lack of Respect: Reality check, players respect effort. Reality check two; players pay ID's because we argue that you pay us for our time to learn the profession. Now whilemany of you ID for free and for fun, SOME of us ID for a living on our servers. It is all well and good to say you want to be a master now and ID for fun, but masters who charge for service will be hindered as a whole, as the ease of learning to design makes us look a farce. I can see it now, "10k for a skin color change? LOL LOL LOL! I'll master ID in an hour and do it myself, see ya!" Think it wont happen, just wait...
Some of you think a boost in our numbers will garnish us more development attention. Reality check: Numbers do not garnish more attention, strong voices with the courage to not accept what is given, but to ask for what is wanted do...
Message Edited by Nouva on 03-28-2005 07:25 PM
Message Edited by Nouva on 03-28-2005 07:26 PM
ok i got some numbers,
~~Newsflash: Bria image designers are overpopulating. in one salon we had 6 yes 6 count 1 2 3 4 5 6 Master image designers in one salon, 4 novice image designers, and 7 ents working their way to nov im~`!! this is crazy!!