Image Designer Archive

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Nouva wrote:

Tell your daughter that Master ID's will have a decreased timer and not to leave. I SUPPORT the timer. It ensures only the truely dedicated master the profession. Timer or no, I would still master this profession. It is a class I have come to love with you all. The timer only affects the hologrinders which have been killing our economy and instituting unhealthy game play.

My advice to teh hologrinders is this: Do what the devs want you to do. Play normal and wait for the jedi trials.

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That's a load of crap. You would still master ID with the timer. Haha, then surrender it all and do it again if you love it so much ... what's that? Didn't think so. It affects way more then the hologrinders ... it affects every single Image Designer who is not a master. My advice to you ... get your head out of your ass.

And there's nothing wrong with hologrinders anyways. Your chosen profession is ID, theirs is Jedi, what's so wrong about that? While you casually complete a box or two a week, so do they ... only their boxes = entire professions. And as long as the holo system is in place, they should not be penalized. If you want hologrinders to show your profession some respect, then why don't you try showing them some respect, too.

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Vicotnik wrote:

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Nouva wrote:

Many of us veteren designers did not have a timer, very true. But we also did not have:

Macros

Food enhancements

Spice enhancements

Willing Clientele or people interested in the profession to be an apprentice

Large PA's to fund our training

Desire to be a combat profession

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Start out as a new char on a galaxy you have never been before, and limit your online time with said character to just one or two hours per day. Then try to master ID under this current system, and then tell me how fun you'll end up having. That way you have effectively emulated the life of a casual Image Designer.

Anyway, I did a little color coding on your statements up there, and I'd like torespond tothem here:

Blue statements are under the current system not applicable, and does not make much sense to why you'd like to support the timer.

The yellow statement is kinda of odd. As a newbie ID you won't have a willing clientele unless you have a second account or a very, very loyal friend. (Which you most likely not will have as a casual player).

The green statement. What funding?

The red statement is just plain old personal opinion. Just because you have/had no interest in combat profession does not mean that the veterans didn't. Just the fact that you imply that you cannot be a "true" Image Designer and enjoy combat just shows how elitist that statement is.

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Ok - regarding the cash side. ID's generally have to pay for their training (not enough generally around to train you). As for the most part non-MID's don't get much business so can't earn (from their proffession) any cash.

Most (medic is about the only other one ) proffessions pay as they go very well - selling resources for artisan and scout for example. Therefore an ID is going to have to run somethign like delivery missions to slowly pay their way - or get help from a sponsor, or finanace ID off another skill.

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Shivash wrote:


Ok - regarding the cash side. ID's generally have to pay for their training (not enough generally around to train you). As for the most part non-MID's don't get much business so can't earn (from their proffession) any cash.

Most (medic is about the only other one ) proffessions pay as they go very well - selling resources for artisan and scout for example. Therefore an ID is going to have to run somethign like delivery missions to slowly pay their way - or get help from a sponsor, or finanace ID off another skill.

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No offense meant, Odyssey, but are you kidding. You are actually comparing becoming a master ID to mastering Chess or becoming a pro football player? Nothing about becoming a master ID is in the least "Challenging". Now it is just extremely time consuming. Changing from something that could be mastered in a few hours of 'clicking' to mastered in over 120 hours of WAITING and 'clicking' does not make it more challenging.

I was enjoying my ID experience as I made it up the hairstyle tree before the change (<sarcasm on>I apologize for wanting the advanced hairstyles that novice ID does not have <sarcasm off>, but the introduction of the timer and the additional time sink to this game has stopped any fun I derived from ID'ing. There is no sense of your accomplishing anything whild you stare at the screen for 5 minutes, no matter how much you enjoy chatting with people. If I wanted to only stare at a screen for hours and chat, I can do that for free on a number of different web sites with chat rooms.

The Enjoyment from ID is by talking with people "While doing work with them". In the past I could sample a number of different hairstyles for people, get xp for each change while chatting with the client about what they wanted. The new system allows the same choose and interact, but since they get to see all the choices before comminting drastically slowed the accumulation of xp. And that enjoyment goes up with the more options you have to offer, thus the desire for people to want to get to Master, and while I never AFK macroed while someone accepted, I sure did find a willing partner and chat with them while we did 'no change' design work on each other, just like someone may shootcreature aftercreature to advance marksman xp.I may be stupid, but this still took me many hours just to get to hairstyle 4, so was not to fast.

The timer has to go, or me and many other casual players likemewill no longer be image designers in training. But perhaps SOE thinks there are too many as it is and need to slow the supply (like Jedi) And yes I know the timer is to slow the hologrinders, but in reality, if someone hologrinds ID then drops it...so what. The quest system will be in with in a couple of months. The timer was not and is not needed.

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OdysseyArchitect wrote:

I can't pretend to know exactly why it doesn't seem to work that way for Novice ID's nowbecause i'm not a novice. Back when i was an architect, it sucked sometimes, sure, to not be able to make all the master things, but I still made low level things and even sold some and ran missions and hunted and had lots of other fun to break it up and looked forward to being a master FAR into the future. When i got there, it REALLY felt coolbecause it was so long coming.

Maybe ID is different and there just plain is NOT anything fun about getting there?

It's hard to separate the whiners that want master capabilities NOW fromthose whohave good points here about the changes and their functionality (or lack of) to novices. Grinding is NOT fun...it's repetitive and one has to find interesting ways to break it up and make it fun. And, I disagree,that IS similar to other games and sports - HOURS AND HOURSof repetitive and boringpracticepractice practice....(have you ever tried to master the piano? LOL)

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It doesn't work that way for novice ID's because they will not have much to offer to a customer.People looking for a "makeover" will go to the most capable person.The ideal thing would of course be leveling through actual image designing, and not grinding. We obviously agree that grinding is NOT fun, but grinding with a timer is even worse.

As it is now, most ID advancement will be through grinding, no matter what you think of it. Then again, grinding is the norm for most professions nowadays.

I completed this profession for my wife's charactera couple of days before the change (I'm glad I did) She would not want to play a character that would take her over 6months to master when every other character class even when played on a casual basis can be done in a month. At the moment she is 4/4/4/4 and not yet master, she only wants to do this and doesn't want any other profession yet under the new rules she is going to have to wait a very long time before she reaches master as she has no-one to train and I have seen novice ID's come in and bypass her character to get trained by a master. Having said this even with her level of competence she cannot do some ID's because she lacks the skill and she frequently gets ignored by people coming in just because she isn't a master ID (lucky she has her XP huh?)

I am guilty myself of holo grinding my character and yes I did grind my wifes profession for her. She would not stick to it otherwise and I would lose her playing alongside me when we both get time to sit down.

All you people who complain about hologrinders coming in and ruining your professions whether it be ID, architect or even BE just remember most of those players are trying to get Jedi they are not interested about stealing your customers or flooding the market with cheap ass houses they they built whilst grinding(As ALL hologrinders grind with practice mode) and invariably drop said profession when they complete it and move onto the next. I have done this with each of my holo profession and not once have I built a house to sell or ID'd someone for money or even because I wanted to.

Fact of the matter is grinding does little to affect the economy(With the exception of making hunters/resource gatherers richer cos of grinding needs)

The timer needs addressing, simple as. I don't claim to know what to replace it with but it shouldn't be there except IMHO for stat changes. I'm all for giving ID's another string to their bow and adding value to their profession.

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Nouva wrote:

Tell your daughter that Master ID's will have a decreased timer and not to leave. I SUPPORT the timer. It ensures only the truely dedicated master the profession. Timer or no, I would still master this profession. It is a class I have come to love with you all. The timer only affects the hologrinders which have been killing our economy and instituting unhealthy game play.

My advice to teh hologrinders is this: Do what the devs want you to do. Play normal and wait for the jedi trials.

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Err. It effects more than the hologrinders. It affects anyone who wants to level ID, period. Someone's done the math, and it currently takes *50* or so times longer for someone to *continuously* grind ID than it does for any other profession.

Having to wait approximately 120 hours continous is not "healthy gameplay", the way I see it. A casual player would take... 4 months, giving continuous 1 hour grind episodes every day--most of it inactive and stuck watchingthe same interface screen. And assuming he can actually find clients with his or herlack of skill, and with MID's being able to perform the same services much faster.

I find the argument that this ensures "only the dedicated master the profession" a little bit dubious, since the MID's that support the current system as is didn't have to be "dedicated" in remotely the same manner for the mastery. I think any MID who would drop one of his boxes.. or dare say, a whole branch, and re-level it to see what it's really like, would quickly reconsider her stance.

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Nouva wrote:

We had to ID/rest/run delivery missions/low level combat missions/AND post every little bug, exploit etcso the current ID populace has a functioning professionfor 240+ hours. Compared to the paltry 120 hours it takes now, you should all be thankful. Would I do it all over again? Hell yes...I love this profession.

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I have been a master ID since August last year. I worked hard at it... there were no macros then. No spices, no food. I spent weeks clicking every box on myself over and over in between dancing. I begged others to help me, and helped them in turn. I paid for all but about 5 boxes of my learning from dancing tips. In several cases I had to borrow money from friends and pay it back later to train.

So... I know what it means to have it rough tomaster this profession. I've said it before, I am saying it again, the timeris a nuisance for masters, a game-killer for novices andeffectively the death knell of the profession. We all agree with macros, food, spice, music buffs, etc. and a willing clickmonkey it was ridiculously easy to master before. Now it is just ridiculously hard in the other direction. Sony has made a mistake. I only hope they realize it and correct it faster than they have realized and corrected the problems they created for Dancers/Musicianswith holos/AFK macros.

I am sorry it spoiled the game for your daughter

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OdysseyArchitect wrote:

And, I disagree,that IS similar to other games and sports - HOURS AND HOURSof repetitive and boringpracticepractice practice....(have you ever tried to master the piano? LOL)

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