Image Designer Archive
Thread: My daughter stopped playing SWG because of the ID Timer...
These are some good posts. I agree with a lot of points here. But Wow, not this one:
All you people who complain about hologrinders coming in and ruining your professions whether it be ID, architect or even BE just remember most of those players are trying to get Jedi they are not interested about stealing your customers or flooding the market with cheap ass houses they they built whilst grinding(As ALL hologrinders grind with practice mode) and invariably drop said profession when they complete it and move onto the next. I have done this with each of my holo profession and not once have I built a house to sell or ID'd someone for money or even because I wanted to.
Fact of the matter is grinding does little to affect the economy(With the exception of making hunters/resource gatherers richer cos of grinding needs)
Ohhhno way! Sorry, but NOOOO. I don't know what YOU did as far as selling stuff while you grinded, but the architecture market, which unfortunately requires no experimentation on most items,was TOTALLY flooded withdirt cheap itemsfrom grinders and the economy was TOTALLY a mess and still is for architects.
I used tobuy this stuff up everytime I could....and resell it high to try and help make a market that was profitable for houses and such (and the grinders liked me buying their stuff tooheh).There was even a society in-game, maybe still is, that was formed for the sole purpose of trying tohelpthe economy recover from the grinders and make those grinded architecture items have some value.
The priceof a house for heaven's sakeis STILL only about 5-6k. Can you EVEN imagine? Things like weapons and droids and just about every service out there including a 2 hour buff LOL is double to 20 times that of a HOUSE!
It's BECAUSE of 1) Grinding and flooding the market with massive amounts of them selling for next to nothing and2) no experimentation on many arch items so even novices can make the same 'quality' as masters. We won't EVEN talk about the bazaars being flooded with 200 dollar Gungan head statues and dirt cheap uber harvestors that make a player MILLIONS in credits.
Having said that, I certainly don't know how to fix the game for ID novices so I won't try. It DOES seem hard and boring...but all the crafts i mastered without macros were. I said before....I EXPECTED them to take weeks ormonths and they did. Andthe payoff in credits and fun was there when I finally mastered.
I do think this macro grinding was never really intended to be how the game isplayed -It has perhaps made many players think mastering/leveling isa weekend (or one evening) affair.....
OdysseyArchitect wrote:
And, I disagree,that IS similar to other games and sports - HOURS AND HOURSof repetitive and boringpracticepractice practice....(have you ever tried to master the piano? LOL)
OdyssayArchitect:
The use of being blind was merely an expression. I am not angry, I am direct. And forgive me if my language or my choice of words are poor, English is not my native language so I have a slightly different understanding of it. That being said, you are still missing the point I am trying to make, but at least your new response give me hope that we infact can have a civil discussion.
I don't ask for the profession to be made easy. I simply do not like the timer. I very much prefer to have the amount of total xp being doubled or even tripled, if that meant that I don't have to deal with a timer. I am not bothered by slow gain, I am not discouraged by professions that take a long time if I want to do them. I mastered dancer 4 times now, and did so ATK at each attempt. Its not the fast going profession, and I just try to make the best of it. however slow going it is, I can fairly easily interact while working on my skills. This isn't working for me with ID. I am forced to sit in a very ugly and dull looking tent to have the timer halved, and then pray and hope that I can have a client, and then have a client who in fact wishes to chat for the 2.5 min its taking.
Again, the timer is the problem for me. I hate waiting, doing nothing, its pointless. Again, I don't mind something being hard, you keep throwing that at me, but that is simply not the case with me. Even with this horrible timer installed I will still try and master the profession, I already stated elsewhere that I am in no hurry and be quite happy if I have mastered it in two weeks time or maybe even 3. That still doesn't mean I enjoy the timer. I don't. I would love to see it reduced, and that the devs seek other means to make gain difficult but again enjoyable.
I do play the game, but for ID to be fun I have to be highly skilled or people lose interest and find someone else. The only steady requests I get are for Stat Migration, and after having done3 in a row, the timer is becoming more and more of a curse. Yes, I know its there for a reason, but I can imagine that there are far more better ways to make this profession both hard to achieve and still enjoyable.
Right now I do a box each day, socialize in the tent with people that are there (I am not a hologrinding afk zombie), I dance in the cantina (hey its at the back of it, how convenient), or play some music if I feel up to it. I do feel I am playing the game, yet the timer really bothers the hell out of me. I cannot imagine having a stopdance of 2.5min in a cantina. Or a 2.5 delay between each flourish. Wow, I'd go insane for sure.
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
MutantSquirrel wrote:
Nouva wrote:
Tell your daughter that Master ID's will have a decreased timer and not to leave. I SUPPORT the timer. It ensures only the truely dedicated master the profession. Timer or no, I would still master this profession. It is a class I have come to love with you all. The timer only affects the hologrinders which have been killing our economy and instituting unhealthy game play.
My advice to teh hologrinders is this: Do what the devs want you to do. Play normal and wait for the jedi trials.
That's a load of crap. You would still master ID with the timer. Haha, then surrender it all and do it again if you love it so much ... what's that? Didn't think so. It affects way more then the hologrinders ... it affects every single Image Designer who is not a master. My advice to you ... get your head out of your ass.
MutantSquirrel wrote:
*Checks to see if Faife is Master* Yup
You have no clue of what you speak. The whole point is that the timer actually benefits masters ONLY and SEVERELY handicaps anyone else. Give up a box or two of ID and remaster, then you will truly understand why the timer totally sucks.
Message Edited by MutantSquirrel on 05-18-2004 03:55 AM
Before you get so snippy, there are those of us who're masters who are doing it again. I started grinding ID on TestCenter the day the patch was pushed to live to prove a point about skillgain. After about 50 hours (not straight) of grinding I'm up to 4-4-3-0. Yes, the timers are annoying, XP gain is unreasonable…but I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Can you say the same? Or are you just sniping at current masters?
MutantSquirrel wrote:
But there is absolutely no possible way of mastering ID prepatch that even begins to compare with mastering it postpatch. That is why I have been putting forth the challenge for masters to give up a couple of boxes and redo it, so they can actually understand what the real issue is here.
Thank you! That is exactly my point!
The thing is, though. Just giving up a few boxes isn't really enough, as the MID would probably have some spare ID xp. I think everyone who thinks this will be good for the profession should start a character on a server they have never been to, play that char one or two hours a day, trying to "grind" ID. Then, once they have mastered ID under the new system, they should come back and state why the timer is so good. A full report on the minut by minute enjoyment and the total time of the grind would be lovely too.
HOWEVER - I do think it needs the following tweaks.
The ID only has the hassle of the timer (when they start the session a little box pops up with the Time to next ID session) once they complete the session with a user they can't start a fresh session until the timer stops.
IC they have to sort out supplies and equipment between customers ,).
Timer is zero for masters who have maxed out XP.
When an ID session includes stat migration then the stats don't migrate until the end of the 10 mins. They can confirm the change(s) before it runs out though.
Also it should be macroable - as before - just with a timer between changes (which the macro could accomodate with a pause).
Nouva wrote:
Many of us veteren designers did not have a timer, very true. But we also did not have:
Macros
Food enhancements
Spice enhancements
Willing Clientele or people interested in the profession to be an apprentice
Large PA's to fund our training
Desire to be a combat profession
Start out as a new char on a galaxy you have never been before, and limit your online time with said character to just one or two hours per day. Then try to master ID under this current system, and then tell me how fun you'll end up having. That way you have effectively emulated the life of a casual Image Designer.
Anyway, I did a little color coding on your statements up there, and I'd like torespond tothem here:
Blue statements are under the current system not applicable, and does not make much sense to why you'd like to support the timer.
The yellow statement is kinda of odd. As a newbie ID you won't have a willing clientele unless you have a second account or a very, very loyal friend. (Which you most likely not will have as a casual player).
The green statement. What funding?
The red statement is just plain old personal opinion. Just because you have/had no interest in combat profession does not mean that the veterans didn't. Just the fact that you imply that you cannot be a "true" Image Designer and enjoy combat just shows how elitist that statement is.
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I don't ask for the profession to be made easy. I simply do not like the timer. I very much prefer to have the amount of total xp being doubled or even tripled, if that meant that I don't have to deal with a timer. I am not bothered by slow gain, I am not discouraged by professions that take a long time if I want to do them. I mastered dancer 4 times now, and did so ATK at each attempt. Its not the fast going profession, and I just try to make the best of it. however slow going it is, I can fairly easily interact while working on my skills. This isn't working for me with ID. I am forced to sit in a very ugly and dull looking tent to have the timer halved, and then pray and hope that I can have a client, and then have a client who in fact wishes to chat for the 2.5 min its taking.
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AyeLunah, I'm understandingyounow and what you (and others) are sayingmakes sense. It's about theWAITING eh?
No one wants to be forced to sit and do nothing but wait.So that feature in the ID timerDOES make this different than grinding other skills where onetypically hasSOMETHING to do, albeit repetitively, most of the time.
It would be goodfor a thread to be started askingeach player who has an opinion to offer their one-paragraphbestidea to fix the ID skilling to where it still accomplishes what the devs intended, while not forcingmindless waiting on players.
Of course one doesn't always have to 'grind'. There still is the option of working on players for fun and a lil profit on the way up, as the opportunities arise. IMO, a combination of both, and lots of other game play in between, makes a big difference in the fun level. And I still maintain that with the misguided Jedi program causing the heavy use of macro-grinding, we have been 'trained' to believe thata few hours or a day of grinding to master is how the game should be played.
It should never have been that way. And going back now, to weeks or months of actually playing the game and mastering/leveling slowly over time by practicing one's craft isnot setting well with those who "want it all now".
Yes exactly, the waiting. I do interact while waiting *if* someone is around, but by being European and playing on a US server (I played before it was released in Europe), there aren't always many people around. I had the same problem being a dancer/musician, but like you said, you can keep on going, however repetitive it is you can keep going working your skill and socialize at the same time.
Like I said before, I am still taking a slow pace with ID only doing a box a day, spread over my game time. Except for box IV which will be devided over two days. I will do stat migrations and hairjobs in between, and that's how I usualy play.
A seperate thread is a great idea to post ideas and perhaps come up with a possible solution or two.
I took up ID with my Entertainer toon so I could change her appearance based upon what she was doing - i.e. playing a "rock-y" tune would merit a suitable hairstyle, dancing would entail a change to another one and so on (yes, I have a short attention span when it comes to her appearance!)
Now if I want to change her hair colour, I have to wait 2 minutes to do it. It's ridiculous and, for the first time, I'm giving serious consideration to dropping Master Image Designer all together.
I appreciate that SOE want to limit people grinding to Master too quickly, but four minutes for an eye colour change (even at Master level!) slows the pace down way too much. A more suitable method would be a stacking system, whereby each change takes, say 10 seconds upwards. A change of hair colour plus a change of, say, eye colour would take, maybe 30 seconds to implement. Although that doesn't sound very long, when you're sitting watching a timer tick down, it is!
Image Designer has been seriously screwed with the addition of the timer and I can see no reason for it. Unless it's a patch to cover some shoddy updating code...
I think I will stop playing with stat migration being done by an ID
Logged on a character on a server that I dont play on as much.
STOOD AT THE TENT FOR 2 HOURS NOT ONE SINGLE IMAGE DESIGNER OF ANY LEVEL.
I CANNOT PLAY THIS CHARACTER UNTIL A MASTER IMAGE DESIGNER APPEARS!
WHAT WILL IT TAKE A WEEK?