Image Designer Archive

1. you must see a doctor to remove the implant AND a Image Designer to remove the Tattoo


2. The Implant are made from a rare crystaland if killed by anenemy faction NPC the NPC will remove it. Thus you loss your Tattoo when kill by the enemy faction. (can you say repeat bussness)

Good Questions

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Syzygy-Gorath wrote:

A few more questions:

You mentioned in your first post a factional bonus; do you mean a percentage increase in faction gained? A percentage decrease in cost of factional requisitions?

At first I was looking at it as something to counter the race penalty, outside thatI would prefer it giving a reward credit increase for doing faction missions. But the devs have more facts and figures and will have better ideas on what and how much to give.

How would this affect sub-faction tattoos? (I.e. either way, what's the point in me getting a Jabba tattoo? I've already got 5000 Jabba faction, and it's not like I can requisition anything from him…)

AgainI would prefer it giving a reward credit increase for doing faction missions, and maybe a new theme park reward.

You mentioned tattoos without implants leading to being marked as a spy. By whom? Factional NPCs? (Yes) This seems to me to be a pretty harsh reprisal for something that would only be aesthetic. Without the implant there would be no faction bonus, thus no positive, so why levy a negative? (Maybe with a fake tattoo your -5000 faction standing would become-1000 faction standing, your right there needsto be a pro and con to having one)

You suggested more recently having factional NPCs remove the implant after deathblowing. If this implant were to cost 1000 faction and run the risk of being destroyed in a single death I highly doubt anyone would want it. Perhaps, instead, have it decay on factional death by some fixed percentage—between 1 and 5 percent—so you have 20-100 deaths before you have to spend another 1000 faction points. (Yeah, I know, death decay—I hate it for clothing and armor, but it actually seems logica in this case) Good thinking! decay on factional deathis much better

Who would spend the faction points? Yes The Image Designer

The image designer (I have 303 Rebel faction right now, and no real interest in grinding any more just so I can give tattoos)? The client (would they have to go overt to delegate or something or the like)? I could be wrong (I have not done it yet) but I'm fairly sure player can transfer FPs to each other, so after you get your first implant you can charge your customer FPs for doing a tattoo, thus you never need to grin for FPs in fact you can even gain FPs by charging more then 1k to do tattoos. You can even buy FPs with credits from some players

Would applying a factional tattoo incur a TEF? (I would hope not, but the devs can decide that)It seems it should, since it provides a factional advantage….

Would applying a sub-faction tattoo affect the image designer's standing with factions opposed to the one being tattoo'd? (I.e. I give Hutt Dood a Jabba tattoo. Will Borvo and Valarian look less kindly upon me for supporting their adversary?) By them costing the IDer 1k sub-faction points it would keep them hard to get and rare ($)_($)

Would the tattoos disappear like factional perks when resigning? What if I have a Jabba tattoo and start hunting his swoopers and drop below 0 faction? Hmmm? I'm not sure I need to think about that

One last what-if:

What if these tattoos were only visible, and the perks only in place, when the bearer was overt? Something like the new theme park reward uniforms. I'm not sure my gut says that there would be coding issues with that, but I really don't know.

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Message Edited by Sir_Voor on 02-27-2004 09:42 AM

I'm hoping that if we get any GCW'ish perks there won't be any dying involved. That certainly seems to be a requisite of most ID"ers that bring the topic up. Dancers for example don't get any ill effects from buffing or healing Imps/Rebels.

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Sir_Voor wrote:

Good Questions

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Syzygy-Gorath wrote:

A few more questions:

You mentioned in your first post a factional bonus; do you mean a percentage increase in faction gained? A percentage decrease in cost of factional requisitions?

At first I was looking at it as something to counter the race penalty, outside thatI would prefer it giving a reward credit increase for doing faction missions. But the devs have more facts and figures and will have better ideas on what and how much to give.

Racial penalty, as far as I know of, only applies to imperials. To be honest, I've never played a human, and I've never played an imperial, so I don't know for sure…but it sounds like this would be more beneficial to imps than rebs as stated. (And to a degree us rebs are already feeling overlooked for various reasons which aren't apropriate for this discussion)

How would this affect sub-faction tattoos? (I.e. either way, what's the point in me getting a Jabba tattoo? I've already got 5000 Jabba faction, and it's not like I can requisition anything from him…)

AgainI would prefer it giving a reward credit increase for doing faction missions, and maybe a new theme park reward.

And what about those of us that have already completed the theme parks? Can't reset, can't get the new rewards…the scythe quest is bad enough, I don't want to add more unbalanced quest rewards. (Yes, I did manage to get the schematic, but I had to reset to do it…I really dislike quests where you may not get the reward, and adding something that would "gate" the better rewards even further doesn't sit well with me.)

You mentioned tattoos without implants leading to being marked as a spy. By whom? Factional NPCs? (Yes) This seems to me to be a pretty harsh reprisal for something that would only be aesthetic. Without the implant there would be no faction bonus, thus no positive, so why levy a negative? (Maybe with a fake tattoo your -5000 faction standing would become-1000 faction standing, your right there needsto be a pro and con to having one)

Hm…so an alternative to the disguise kit idea. I like this one—it merits further discussion. Let's talt about… thread time?

You suggested more recently having factional NPCs remove the implant after deathblowing. If this implant were to cost 1000 faction and run the risk of being destroyed in a single death I highly doubt anyone would want it. Perhaps, instead, have it decay on factional death by some fixed percentage—between 1 and 5 percent—so you have 20-100 deaths before you have to spend another 1000 faction points. (Yeah, I know, death decay—I hate it for clothing and armor, but it actually seems logica in this case) Good thinking! decay on factional deathis much better

I particularly like this because of the recent removal of item decay on PvP death. I've always felt death should have a sting, and I think this may be one that would be acceptable. It's an optional item, unlike armor and enhanced clothing which are "musts" in PvP, so those who really support their cause and want to show it would suffer it, but I think those are the type of people that would be willing to shoulder this sort of burden.

Who would spend the faction points? Yes The Image Designer

The image designer (I have 303 Rebel faction right now, and no real interest in grinding any more just so I can give tattoos)? The client (would they have to go overt to delegate or something or the like)? I could be wrong (I have not done it yet) but I'm fairly sure player can transfer FPs to each other, so after you get your first implant you can charge your customer FPs for doing a tattoo, thus you never need to grin for FPs in fact you can even gain FPs by charging more then 1k to do tattoos. You can even buy FPs with credits from some players

On delegation: I've done this numerous times, both to give people the faction they need to join a side, and to give them the faction they need to requisition items. Here's the danger:

1. In order to delegate faction you must be overt


2. You do not delegate at a 1:1 ratio (I believe I delegate at a 1:2.5 ratio as a staff sergeant, but it's been a while, so I forget exactly)

So here's what we're talking about for a factional tattoo: privates can't get one, and I'm okay with that. The people who can get one have to go overt to do it…that could cause problems—group TEF, TEF incurred by IDing an overt, et cetera. Using the smuggler model, assuming the client is a colonel, we're talking an equivalency of at least 110 credits to the faction point—so that 1000FP tattoo is roughly equivalent to 110000 credits and that's at minimal profit to the ID. That's some serious change to be dropping on a tat…we need to balance that somehow. And that's assuming it's a colonel wanting the tattoo; if a staff sergeant like me wanted one we're talking the equivalent of about a quarter million credit tattoo. There has to be some sort of return on investment that makes it worth it. (Or a lessened cost to match the benefit gained—two sides of the same coin, really)

Would applying a factional tattoo incur a TEF? (I would hope not, but the devs can decide that)It seems it should, since it provides a factional advantage….

See above explanation of /delegateFaction on why I think we would be TEF'd (they'd almost have to be overt.)

Would applying a sub-faction tattoo affect the image designer's standing with factions opposed to the one being tattoo'd? (I.e. I give Hutt Dood a Jabba tattoo. Will Borvo and Valarian look less kindly upon me for supporting their adversary?) By them costing the IDer 1k sub-faction points it would keep them hard to get and rare ($)_($)

Subfaction cannot be bought, so what we're talking about is forcing IDs to go out and hunt subfactional NPCs to get to this content. Granted, I can go out and kill Valarian's thugs for an hour and make back that faction…I can go to the singing mountain stronghold and fanshot the crap out of the 3-sentry spawn point and make back that nightsister faction…but not all—and I would even say not many—IDs can…just seems like "gated" content again.

Would the tattoos disappear like factional perks when resigning? What if I have a Jabba tattoo and start hunting his swoopers and drop below 0 faction? Hmmm? I'm not sure I need to think about that

Sure you do. The best way to get something implemented, in my opinion, is to present a fully reasoned account of what we want, and how it would work. The less skullsweat they have to expend on the specifics, the more likely they are to spend it on actually coding it. But like I said, that's just my perception.

One last what-if:

What if these tattoos were only visible, and the perks only in place, when the bearer was overt? Something like the new theme park reward uniforms. I'm not sure my gut says that there would be coding issues with that, but I really don't know.

Maybe, maybe not. If you've ever seen someone go covert while wearing a faction reward uniform you'll notice it gets automatically unequipped. It's pretty funny, actually. So obviously there's a mechanism for altering equipment on covert/overt changeover…just a matter of extending it. Now, that could be a lot harder than I think it is…but at worst we ask and they say it can't be done.

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Message Edited by Sir_Voor on 02-27-2004 09:42 AM

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Syzygy-Gorath wrote:

Syzygy-Gorathcomments in red.

Sir_Voor comments in Gold

A few more questions:

How would this affect sub-faction tattoos? (I.e. either way, what's the point in me getting a Jabba tattoo? I've already got 5000 Jabba faction, and it's not like I can requisition anything from him…)

AgainI would prefer it giving a reward credit increase for doing faction missions, and maybe a new theme park reward.

And what about those of us that have already completed the theme parks? Can't reset, can't get the new rewards…the scythe quest is bad enough, I don't want to add more unbalanced quest rewards. (Yes, I did manage to get the schematic, but I had to reset to do it…I really dislike quests where you may not get the reward, and adding something that would "gate" the better rewards even further doesn't sit well with me.)

I would suggestthat any new theme park rewards be for doing new theme park missions - or that sub-faction tattoos have no function and just be something cool to have.

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Who would spend the faction points? Yes The Image Designer

The image designer (I have 303 Rebel faction right now, and no real interest in grinding any more just so I can give tattoos)? The client (would they have to go overt to delegate or something or the like)? I could be wrong (I have not done it yet) but I'm fairly sure player can transfer FPs to each other, so after you get your first implant you can charge your customer FPs for doing a tattoo, thus you never need to grin for FPs in fact you can even gain FPs by charging more then 1k to do tattoos. You can even buy FPs with credits from some players

On delegation: I've done this numerous times, both to give people the faction they need to join a side, and to give them the faction they need to requisition items. Here's the danger:

1. In order to delegate faction you must be overt


2. You do not delegate at a 1:1 ratio (I believe I delegate at a 1:2.5 ratio as a staff sergeant, but it's been a while, so I forget exactly)

So here's what we're talking about for a factional tattoo: privates can't get one, and I'm okay with that. The people who can get one have to go overt to do it…that could cause problems—group TEF, TEF incurred by IDing an overt, et cetera. Using the smuggler model, assuming the client is a colonel, we're talking an equivalency of at least 110 credits to the faction point—so that 1000FP tattoo is roughly equivalent to 110000 credits and that's at minimal profit to the ID. That's some serious change to be dropping on a tat…we need to balance that somehow. And that's assuming it's a colonel wanting the tattoo; if a staff sergeant like me wanted one we're talking the equivalent of about a quarter million credit tattoo. There has to be some sort of return on investment that makes it worth it. (Or a lessened cost to match the benefit gained—two sides of the same coin, really)

Delegate faction does seem to be a problem, I guess the simplest way around delegate faction is to have it so any faction member could buythe implant, then take it to a IDer

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Sir_Voor wrote:

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Syzygy-Gorath wrote:

Syzygy-Gorathcomments in red.

Sir_Voor comments in Gold

A few more questions:

Who would spend the faction points? Yes The Image Designer

The image designer (I have 303 Rebel faction right now, and no real interest in grinding any more just so I can give tattoos)? The client (would they have to go overt to delegate or something or the like)? I could be wrong (I have not done it yet) but I'm fairly sure player can transfer FPs to each other, so after you get your first implant you can charge your customer FPs for doing a tattoo, thus you never need to grin for FPs in fact you can even gain FPs by charging more then 1k to do tattoos. You can even buy FPs with credits from some players

On delegation: I've done this numerous times, both to give people the faction they need to join a side, and to give them the faction they need to requisition items. Here's the danger:

1. In order to delegate faction you must be overt


2. You do not delegate at a 1:1 ratio (I believe I delegate at a 1:2.5 ratio as a staff sergeant, but it's been a while, so I forget exactly)

So here's what we're talking about for a factional tattoo: privates can't get one, and I'm okay with that. The people who can get one have to go overt to do it…that could cause problems—group TEF, TEF incurred by IDing an overt, et cetera. Using the smuggler model, assuming the client is a colonel, we're talking an equivalency of at least 110 credits to the faction point—so that 1000FP tattoo is roughly equivalent to 110000 credits and that's at minimal profit to the ID. That's some serious change to be dropping on a tat…we need to balance that somehow. And that's assuming it's a colonel wanting the tattoo; if a staff sergeant like me wanted one we're talking the equivalent of about a quarter million credit tattoo. There has to be some sort of return on investment that makes it worth it. (Or a lessened cost to match the benefit gained—two sides of the same coin, really)

Delegate faction does seem to be a problem, I guess the simplest way around delegate faction is to have it so any faction member could buythe implant, then take it to a IDer

As a tailor, I kinda hate the resource-in-hand customers…they have this "only paying for your time, and it only takes you X seconds…" mentality that pisses me off. Buuut, I'd have to see how it works to really comment.

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Hmmm.. I like the idea about factional tatoos but why not keep it simple? Let tatoos be a faction specific perk that comes with every promotion, but wearing them does nothing for your overt/covert status and does not fool any NPCs. Let them simply be ornaments that do the wearer proud. For roleplaying reasons they should only be visible when the wearer is overt, but that should be about the only functionality they would ever have.

Us IDs could get a new tatoo slider that showed more options the higher the rank of the person you ID:ed.
Privates would have a selection of 3-4 basic tatoos, officers could have dozens of basic and intricate tatoos to choose from.

It would add some fun new content as well as repeat business. What more could you really ask for?

And...in a way it would "help the war effort" since it would provide people with an incentive to get faction points. Boost the morale so to speak...

Mittandra / Evelina

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Finduilas wrote:
Hmmm.. I like the idea about factional tatoos but why not keep it simple? Let tatoos be a faction specific perk that comes with every promotion, but wearing them does nothing for your overt/covert status and does not fool any NPCs. Let them simply be ornaments that do the wearer proud. For roleplaying reasons they should only be visible when the wearer is overt, but that should be about the only functionality they would ever have.

Us IDs could get a new tatoo slider that showed more options the higher the rank of the person you ID:ed.
Privates would have a selection of 3-4 basic tatoos, officers could have dozens of basic and intricate tatoos to choose from.

It would add some fun new content as well as repeat business. What more could you really ask for?

And...in a way it would "help the war effort" since it would provide people with an incentive to get faction points. Boost the morale so to speak...

Mittandra / Evelina

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I like your ideas Where would be best for factional tattoos to show up? There really aren't that many clothes for men that even show part of the arm, though they could of course run around topless

A topless admiral? He would be courtmartialed I think...

Seriously I am not sure where they should be placed. You are right about the clothes problem, alas. I would suggest arms and face. I wonder if it's possible to have a tatoo on just one cheek? Or is that impossible? I don't know how the models are textured.

Mittandra / Evelina