Image Designer Archive
Thread: Odim's UI issues
Message Edited by Odim on 03-03-2004 12:51 PM
She did. Given the option, people will want to do everything themselves, whether they're equipped to do it or not. Allowing this sort of interface will encourage—almost demand—that people use IDs as a proxy chargen system. In other words, I'll be handling the mouse, but I might as well not exist, because my judgement won't come into play at all. At that point you may as well replace me with a terminal, because I won't be doing anything it can't do.
Message Edited by Odim on 03-03-2004 01:04 PM
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
Yes…but I left it pretty open ended on purpose. Some people are better than others, some are worse. And it really is a matter of personal preference. But there are certain accepted universals regarding ratio ranges—for instance, nose_protrusion 255 and chin 0 is not a good combination. As an image designer it's my job to know and look out for these things, not my client's.
Actually, a lot of my clients are people master image design to open their jedi slot and decided to play with how they look before they gave it up. I am sure that quite a few people have done excellent jobs doing this, but quite a lot of them just don't have the knack, get confused with all the options and come to me to fix them up. By the way, aside from people having no chin and zero nose width (the Michael Jackson nose) have you noticed how many people have noses that seem to be either sitting on their upper lip or practically between their eyes?
Well, to use the phrase that came up before, it would turn my ID into a clickbot. it wouldn't be harder to play the way I enjoy, it would be virtually impossible to play the way I enjoy. My ID would be converted into an expanded version of the character creation screens. Am I being selfish putting my desires above the convenience of my customers? Of course! I'm the one paying the subscription fees for my accounts, not them.
Odim wrote:
Thats odd i usually tell my armorsmiths what kind of armor I want, if i wanted it expieremented for encumb, resistance, special protection don't you?
"Anyway, I would not like anyone to change the game so that it is harder for me to play it in the way tha I enjoy"
Could you tell me 1 way that it would make it harder?
Message Edited by Odim on 03-03-2004 12:51 PM
Odim wrote:
She did. Given the option, people will want to do everything themselves, whether they're equipped to do it or not. Allowing this sort of interface will encourage—almost demand—that people use IDs as a proxy chargen system. In other words, I'll be handling the mouse, but I might as well not exist, because my judgement won't come into play at all. At that point you may as well replace me with a terminal, because I won't be doing anything it can't do.
I think your failing to understand what i'm asking for here.
If you need to change a hairstyle, and you want to do it fast and they want to see it all, it changes live. If you have the time and feel like RP'ing. Then don't cycle thru them.Its as simple as that. That in no way could inhibit your ability to have fun.
Ok, here we go! My thoughts on this were a bit mixed but I did finally come to a decision. I don't see any reason why the customer needs to see images of all the changes, we already have that with the accept/refuse dialogue.
But it makes it harder to get what they want!
That's true, but that's how it goes in the real world. It's rather infrequent for a client to be shown photos of varying hairstyles for them to make a decision. The only time this really happens is for special events like weddings, proms, holidays, etc... Most of it is from the client themselves, they generally know how they want their hair done or at least what general type. At times they will mention something like "I saw someone with this one style, short on the sides, bit long on top with curly bangs and the hair draped over the ear." If the customer needs to actually see the styles we can do that via the refuse/accept dialogue. (Pardon me for this next line but as it's been brought up I will use it as well.) The only reason I can think of not wanting to go through all the hairstyles with the customer is selfish. Now let me justify all the mentioning of selfishness with this next bit..
It's Selfish!
So what!? We play this game to have fun, that's selfish. I can only think of a very limited number of reasons someone plays this game for entirely selfless reasons. Anyone is going to be a bit defensive about a profession/style they enjoy, because changes can make it less enjoyable for them. Some people enjoy helping others aesthetically and that's what this profession is all about.
Clicky clicky!
I get these customers from time to time: "I want hairstyle #14, torso size -150, eyebrow #4, etc..." While I do perform the changes I generally feel unsatisfied with the entire transaction, the person thinks little of my time to chase them down, group with them, do the clicking for them, then being patted on the head and sent on my way for 1k credits. If I have a lot of requests by # I take off the title because I'm really just clicking for them, and that's not what I consider fun. If customers get a GUI to select their own changes then I think the Image Designer Profession should be removed. Make a terminal that lets the person make all their own changes, sees the total cost somewhere on the GUI, then accept/refuse the changes they made. The game Earth and Beyond has this exact system. This will also save dev time for something else. Think about it in terms of money here: Why create a nearly entirely client side GUI leaving the Professional doing the actual confirmation and sumission? The people who practice that profession will tend to leave because there's less for them to do and they'll likely repeatedly ask for more things for their profession because of that lack. It's really a waste of time and labor if you ask me.
Speed it up already!
Time time time, time is a commodity and something precious. It took me a bit of practice but I can go from "I have no idea what hair I want" to a satisfied customer in under 2 minutes for most instances. I ask aline of questions that the customer can decide what look they want and it always limits it down to at most 5 styles. What do I ask? "Short or long, ponytail or no, combed or frazzled, more formal or casual." When I show them a selection I'll tell them what it is: "this is the shorter of the bunch, the other two are a bit longer in the back, one shows more face while the bangs of the other hang down about the eyes."
Input! Inpuuuuuut!
During my session I offer feedback to the customer. I give them what I think it is what they want and show them, then if they want to I show them a selection I think works better and why. An excerpt from a recent session I had: "this is the lightest red I have, but let me show you this (lip color 4.) This is a subtle pink and it goes with the soft color of your outfit very well, and it adds a very sensual and casual look to your face. It's rather alluring if you ask me." I'm not an ID bot, I talk with my customers, give them exactly what they ask for, and then offer my input. If they take it or not is up to them.
Floor Models Please.
Every time I go to a beauty salon (yes I go to a salon to have my hair done!) with each new customer they have a little meeting first. They ask the person what it is they are looking to change in general. Yes they sometimes do go through books butless frequentlyfor exact styles. They look for how something "feels." "This looks neat, but maybe a little shorter on the sides and with some highlights, and straight bangs, not the curly." That's about how it goes. They use the books to get ideas and then chat it out with the beautician to get exactly what they want. Vehicles are much the same way, if you deal with a factory dealer. You sit down and decide what base type of vehicle you want then work out all the options, when it's all finished they send the order to the factory. Second-hand dealerships are more like a bazaar, you go to browse pre-made products. (Yes, a lot of factory-direct dealers have standing orders for so many of each model of car, but the factory decides what exactly they get...pre-manufactured product.) The only pre-made product the Image Designer has is the people around them, and sometimes they can change themselves to show another option for the client if the choice is close.
Give me that Austin Powers style please!
I look at some people and say "wha...???" Everyone has a different idea of style. One person happened to think I looked ugly with black comfortable slacks and a pink dress shirt. She gave me a yellow and black suit shirt and a black pilots jacket. I scrunched my nose at all the black. Personally I think I look fine in pink. There's another person who thinks I look adorable in pink. Even if I think what the person wants looks like total entropy I'll do it. It is their body afterall so who am I to give them what they don't want. I will offer my input though and tell them I think it would look a bit more "striking" or whatever with more cheek or chin,etc..
In short summary here, I'm here to perform a service to others, but if it's not fun for me I'm not going to be doing it. Some days I don't quite feel like IDing people so I take off the title and only tend to repeat customers or those who were specifically referred to me. I have my own life and am a bit selfish and would like to keep some of it for me =)
Odim wrote:
"Anyway, I would not like anyone to change the game so that it is harder for me to play it in the way tha I enjoy"
Could you tell me 1 way that it would make it harder?
Message Edited by Odim on 03-03-2004 12:51 PM
It makes it harder because I would not enjoy just clicking until someone says stop and I think this is what would happen in the majority of cases if it was something that was really easy to do. Yes, I would have a choice, but if someone said, "show me all the hairstyles" and all had to do is bring up an interface so they could see exactly what I was doing I could not say no to them. That *would* be bad customer service and I can't imagine how quickly people would stop coming to me. What you are proposing would completely change the playstyle of image designers and it is currently a playstyle that I really enjoy.
Odim wrote:
you: I think this hair style looks best on you
me: I don't like it
you: Too bad its my profession and i'll do what i think is best. it doesn't matter its just YOUR avatar its silly to think that you should have the ability to decide what you want.
It sound like the way you want it you might as well remove the reject button, maybe if i suggest that you'll all like it?
Message Edited by Odim on 03-03-2004 01:03 PM
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
Odim wrote:
you: I think this hair style looks best on you
me: I don't like it
you: Too bad its my profession and i'll do what i think is best. it doesn't matter its just YOUR avatar its silly to think that you should have the ability to decide what you want.
It sound like the way you want it you might as well remove the reject button, maybe if i suggest that you'll all like it?
Message Edited by Odim on 03-03-2004 01:03 PM
Whoa there! I have never done anything like that and I never will. That exchange would be conducted more like:
Me: I think this hairstyle is the closest to what you're after.
Client: I'm not too sure, can I see some others?
Me: Sure, but if you can tell me what it is about this one that you don't like it'll help me narrow the choices.
Client: It's too long, or it's parted on the wrong side, or…
Me: Okay, try this one…
I'll say it one more time: I am not trying to force my will on my clients. I am however trying to maintain the interactive and creative part of the process. I do not want to have people request that I sit there and click on each style in turn so they can see them. That is not a worthwhile interaction to me, and from the responses, nor is it to a number of other IDs. Tell you what. Try a little experiment: write a macro to offer each hairstyle in turn to your clients. Sit outside Coronet or Theed starports and shout that you're offering this service. See if it's more fun to wait for them to say "stop" or less. Sure, you'll need to write 16 macros…but it'll be easier for the client, right?
If the customer wants to see all the hairstyles why shouldn't we be able to cycle thru them? If you don't want to do it that way then do it your way. But why not have the option?
Odim wrote:
If the customer wants to see all the hairstyles why shouldn't we be able to cycle thru them? If you don't want to do it that way then do it your way. But why not have the option?
Odim wrote:
If the customer wants to see all the hairstyles why shouldn't we be able to cycle thru them? If you don't want to do it that way then do it your way. But why not have the option?
I think we have a complete failure to communicate.... This question and a response to the idea that you don't have to do things a certain way has been answered by several people with almost exactly the same answer several times now and yet we still keep coming back to this. The answer is that if the option is available and painless to the customer, almost all customers are going to ask for it. Refusing to let the customer use this option if it is available would be very bad customer service and would ruin our businesses.
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
Odim wrote:
If the customer wants to see all the hairstyles why shouldn't we be able to cycle thru them? If you don't want to do it that way then do it your way. But why not have the option?
We can cycle through them. Like I said, write a macro:
/image;
/imagedesignSetValue frills 0;
/pause 30;
/image;
/imagedesignSetValue frills 1;
et cetera.
But that's not the point. The point is that having the option would almost necessitate its use, and its use would destroy the profession for many of us. Is that selfish? Yes. But for my $30.00 per month (yeah, yeah, two accounts) I feel I deserve to be a little selfish about what I consider fun in my professions.
And why do you feel it would nessessitate its use? Possibly because its better, more effecient, easier for the customer, less time consuming for you,give them an option they might not have known existed or even thought would look good?