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TH, thanks for your response and committment to look at this in more detail. I would point out that the jedi saber armor break appears to suffer from the exact same bug. When I only had saber armor break, I could do approximately 450 damage with saber hit. When I got improved saber armor break my damage from saber hit dropped to425. Thesenumbers are for illustration purposes only as I cannot remember the exact numbers now. I would be willing to help test with you. Thanks.

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Thunderheart wrote:

(Sorry, but I haven't played a melee character since the CU yet)

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Slacker!!!

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Hactar wrote:

Thunderheart: have you checked the numbers when both "normal" armor break and the "jedi version" of armor break are applied to the same npc?

The npc starts taking less damage

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Yes - we did check the numbers. It should be an even higher percentage than even the advanced armor break for swordsman.

Do you know what buffs you have, what you were fighting, etc?

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From my own experience:

Level 80, Lightsabers 0204. No buffs except inspiration buffs. Two handed Generation 4 lightsaber.

Used standard Jedi armor break. Level 82 banthas were dropping like flies - people hitting for quite a bit of damage (i am the "armor breaker"). With our group of folks, that bantha's Health dropped in big chunks.

I then trained up to 0404 Lightsaber.

Improved Armor break vs. a level 82 bantha with the same group of people didn't seem as effective. Took longer to kill the banthas. Their Health wasn't dropping in big chunks anymore - it was noticeable. Smaller slivers of Health were dropping.

I, of course, was not surprised that this happened, as I read it all in the Jedi forums. But, I wanted improved head hit and power hit. So, meh. I trained to 0404.

Now, it was my understanding that rather than reducing armor BY 25%, regular armor break dropped it TO 25%. Improved armor break, instead of dropping armor effectiveness BY 45%, it was dropping the armor level TO 45%. Hence, improved isn't as good as the regular. This was always my impression of what happened, and the banthas seemed to show a decent difference in damage taken with the regular vs. improved armor break.

Maybe your numbers are just fine, but the code isn't behaving properly at all.

I hope that helps test some of this for you, because I most definitely saw a "backwards" progression from gaining the better armor break skill.

Message Edited by gera on 05-31-2005 01:55 PM

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Boatsheets wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Shaggscoob wrote:

NOT FIRST

isn't this broken if you have the higher levels of it?

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No, this ability is working properly. It is a straight number that has been checked.

If I had an idea of what your template was, what weapon you were using, which follow up attacks you used and what your were fighting, I would be happy to look into it further.

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TH - What we are saying is if you have Armor Break you get like a 45% reduction in your target's defense.

However, once you get Improved Armor Break that percentage drops to like 25 or 30%. It should be either the other way around or the Improved Armor Break should be higher than 45%.

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I gotcha and I'm hearing you. I've spoken with the developer and looked at the code with him. The code does indeed show a higher percentage than 45%.

I'd like to work with you folks to understand how you are seeing this number so we can duplicate it internally.

(Sorry, but I haven't played a melee character since the CU yet).

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But the number in the variablemight be ok, but the use of the variablenot !

I guess the damage reduction apply in a equation were this has to be check.

What I m affraid tho, is that in the end, we will see less damage reduction after the fix (for example if the value is mirrored, then we get a 75% armor reduction for single and 55% for improved, instead of 25% and 45%...lol)

The information is much appreciated

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager

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gera wrote:

Here is hard data you looking for Thunderheart. Thanks to Respec period, we could able to test his on VERY SAME creature even while fighting (Repeating, same lightsaber, very same creature, no buffs, no modifiers etc. used):

Test On Armor Break 1 & 2 with Saber Strike attack:

Current Template: LS 0 2 0 4

Clicky For Combat Log For this

Default Saber Strike attack: 216/580 ( Huurton howler absorbed )

Default Saber Strike After "Armor Break 1": 97/580 (Huurton howler absorbed)

Respec'd: LS 0 4 0 4

Clicky for Combat Log of this

Default Saber Strike attack: 224/602 (Huurton Howler absorbed) (due to accuracy, my attack has moved 602 from 580)

Default Saber Strike After "Improved Armor Break": 145/602 (Huurton howler absorbed)

As you can see, with same attack, tests repeated with same attack, Armor Break is sure better than Improved Armor break. After Improved Armor Break (creature Absorbs more damage of me compared to basic Armor Break.) Problem is NUMBERS ARE CORRECT IN TRE FILES. Just mathematics wrong in combat applied.

It has to be (1-number you have written), not (number you have written) there. Improved Saber Armor Break is shown as reducing 60% of armor, but it just reduces armor to 60%, not 40%. Same as Basic Saber Armor Break is shown as redcuing 40% but it REDUCES armor to 40%, not 60%.

PS: Forgot to add, my Level is CL65, Huurton was CL39 and tested on VERY SAME Huurton Howler, I respec'd while in combat.

Message Edited by gera on 05-31-2005 01:55 PM

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Here's what the problem seems to be:

Saber_Armor_Break [return target_resist = target_resist * .45] example 500 energy resist becomes 225 energy resist

Improved_Saber_Armor_Break [return target_resist = target_resist * .65] example 500 energy resist becomes 325 energy resist

Simply put, a multiplier of 45%results ina smaller number than a multiplier of 65%. 45% of 100 is 45. 65% of 100 is 65.

Assuming that Saber Armor Break is supposed to reduce resistances by 45%, the multiplier in the above example has to be .55 (1.00 - .45 = .55).

If Improved Saber Armor Break is supposed to reduce resistances by 65%, then the multiplier in the second example needs to be .35 (1.00 - .65 = .35).

This isa case where, due to simple math, the *smaller* multiplier is the *better* multiplier...

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Hactar wrote:

Thunderheart: have you checked the numbers when both "normal" armor break and the "jedi version" of armor break are applied to the same npc?

The npc starts taking less damage

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Yes - we did check the numbers. It should be an even higher percentage than even the advanced armor break for swordsman.

Do you know what buffs you have, what you were fighting, etc?

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Thunderheart wrote:

The information is much appreciated

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Can we a Tuesday tip thread everyday of the week so we can enlighten you on more broken features/specials/quests/loots/weapons/ect,ect,ectthen just on a weekly basis

This is a basic problem with just checking the code rather than testing. It is clear from testing that armor is being reduced improperly because of an incorrectly coded mathematical equation.

It is disheartening to hear all you do is ask the Dev "does the code look right?" rather than saying "we've received hundreds of bug reports on this - I know the code looks right but let's run a quick test anyway to be 100% sure." If you had spent even 10 minutes doing this, you would have discovered what all of your playerbase - that you are choosing to ignore - already discovered.

This issue highlights how you are treating bugs TH. It just isn't right - *WE* are doing your jobs for you, testing software that obviously no one tested internally - and you still choose to ignore us. For shame, for shame.

Message Edited by GangaWolf on 05-31-2005 05:09 PM