Game Guides Archive

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LienDanone wrote:

DWB works fine for me. Leave it as it is I say

We have had to re-learn it comletely since the CU so it is possible you just need to put some effort in.

T.

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Well on an individual basis, I do not need to put any more effort into it, I already know how to get pretty much anywhere that you could want to go within the DWB, how to slay both overlords, how to craft a jetpack or Mando armor, how to do the foreman's quest, etc.

And guess what? I still stand by what I said... the place ought to be turned down a notch and drop rates of Mando components slightly increased (but remain at no more than 1%). Yes, I want Mando armor to be rare, and I believe with drop rates of 1% it would still be quite rare.

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Icicleman wrote:
On my server there is one full suit, at least 3 half-suits and various helms. How is that non-existant?

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Only one full suit for a server population which I assume is of several thousand players? It's pretty much non-existant as far as I'm concerned. Besides, not all servers are as large as yours probably is. I believe it has been shown that there is a positive correlation in most cases between the size of the population and the number of Mando pieces that have been crafted.

While I want Mando armor to remain rare, I also wish there were more things in the game that remind you of Star Wars. So yes, even though every nit-picker will insist that it is inconsistant (even tho it really isn't), I would like Mando armor to remain relatively rare, but not quite as rare as it has been up to now. If, for example, there are only 3-4 Mando helmets and no complete suits in my home server, than I think it would be cool if there were as many as 12-15 Mando helmets altogether and maybe 2-3 complete suits. Given the size of the population of even a small server, it's still pretty darn rare, you're not going to be looking at a bunch of players in Mando suits every time you get off the spaceport.

But it's pretty obvious from this thread that those lucky enough to be in larger servers where Mando components (and jetpacks) flow more easily than in the smaller servers are just going to defend the status quo, out of selfishness if nothing else. It's the old "I have it and don't want others to have it so I can feel superior to them" mentality.

It's not my fault people on other servers don't put forth the effort as much as those on mine.

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Icicleman wrote:
It's not my fault people on other servers don't put forth the effort as much as those on mine.

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Nobody has ever said anything is *your* fault. Why do you want to make this about YOU? Are you really that self-centered? The nature of the server sizes makes this an easier dungeon (relatively speaking) for players in larger servers. Now, as for yourself, it's quite obvious you are simply speaking out of selfishness, which is sad, really, because the game ought to be about cooperation, not about selfishness like the one you so proudly display here. You keep using that tone as if to say you are beyond *all reproach* and anything that is poorly designed in the game is the players's fault. Well it isn't, and you aren't. You could stop taking that holier-than-thou attitude and just admit that the way it's set up right now is unfair to some players, especially in smaller servers, and that many players' efforts are necessary for just ONE player to enjoy a piece of Mando armor or a jetpack.

Message Edited by pussycat on 08-14-2005 06:12 PM

Stop trying to twist my words into an arrogant attitude to make yourself feel better. I don't see how server sizes matter, when the group size is at 8. I'm pretty sure every server has 8 people willing to do the bunker. The way you're complaining about the group getting nothing sounds like you want it to give you 8 schematics for each team member.

Go whine somewhere else if you can't make as much Mando as your heart desires, because I see no one else with a problem.

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Icicleman wrote:
Stop trying to twist my words into an arrogant attitude to make yourself feel better. I don't see how server sizes matter, when the group size is at 8. I'm pretty sure every server has 8 people willing to do the bunker. The way you're complaining about the group getting nothing sounds like you want it to give you 8 schematics for each team member.

Go whine somewhere else if you can't make as much Mando as your heart desires, because I see no one else with a problem.

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I have no need to make myself feel better, I feel just fine, thank you very much. If you cannot comprehend why the server size would matter for getting groups going on a regular basis, over a long period of time, then you are beyond any help. Many, many players are just not as dedicated as I or other DWB aficionados, and cannot stand to go there on a daily basis for several hours at a time. I am not complaining about the group getting nothing, I am simply pointing out (and that is not a complaint per se) that for ONE PLAYER to be successful at getting a jetpack or Mando piece, MANY OTHERS have to contribute a significant effort, often getting nothing at all for it except armor decay. That is not a complaint, it is simply a fact, why you cannot come to understand this is beyond me. Nor is this a whine in any way whatsoever, it's simply pointing out the game mechanics, you need 8 or more people to have a group that can have success in the DWB, and most of them will get nothing at all except perhaps rebreathers or datapads for their efforts. If you do not see others who are unable to get as much out of the DWB as the more fortunate players, then you are truly blind and I feel very sorry for you.

They accept that when they join the team, or they are idiots and shouldn't be there. What is with you and trying to belittle people? You feel sorry for me? For what? You just want to appear above everyone by stating how much they can't read and how you feel sorry for everyone. I feel sorry for you for your pessimistic arrogant attitude.

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Icicleman wrote:
They accept that when they join the team, or they are idiots and shouldn't be there. What is with you and trying to belittle people? You feel sorry for me? For what? You just want to appear above everyone by stating how much they can't read and how you feel sorry for everyone. I feel sorry for you for your pessimistic arrogant attitude.

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Players who come to the DWB for the first time generally do not realize what the drop rates are, what the levels of the mobs are, etc. Many players find their first DWB experience to be somewhat overwhelming. Even I have to admit that I have grown much more comfortable with it after 3 months of frequent visits... I do not mean to belittle anybody; in fact, just the opposite. I wish everyone stood to benefit equally from going to the DWB, but right now, only one person out of every 10-15 who go there will get a jetpack or Mando armor. The rest will probably be stuck with little to show for it, unless they stick with it for many months. So what I am trying to do, really, is the opposite of what you claim: to empower the players, to make it a bit easier to get something out of the DWB for *everyone* (not just me) and to make it generally a more egalitarian experience, rather than one which only benefits a handful of those who go there. Yet you still do not appear to grasp this little point. What else can I do? Obviously nothing anybody says will help you to have an open mind.

Considering how 95% of my team has jetpacks, I doubt people who go have nothing. It is NOT the type of dungeon where you go 4 times and have the loot of your dreams. It takes effort. That effort has given over 30 team members jetpacks, and some mando. It is a hardcore dungeon, and is not meant for everyone. Again, the way you're describing it, you sound like you want everyone who goes to come out with a jetpack or mando piece of some sort. It is NOT meant to be that way.

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Icicleman wrote:
Considering how 95% of my team has jetpacks, I doubt people who go have nothing. It is NOT the type of dungeon where you go 4 times and have the loot of your dreams. It takes effort. That effort has given over 30 team members jetpacks, and some mando. It is a hardcore dungeon, and is not meant for everyone. Again, the way you're describing it, you sound like you want everyone who goes to come out with a jetpack or mando piece of some sort. It is NOT meant to be that way.

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Wrong again!

First of all, the jetpack is very easy compared to the Mando armor. You simply cannot compare drop rates for jetpack parts to the drop rate for PLC and binary liquid. You just can't. Nor have I ever said you should be able to go there 4 times and have everything you have. In my case, it probably took more than 50 times before I had my jetpack, mostly because I was more concerned about helping others than helping myself. Nor have I ever said the DWB could ever be meant for everyone. I have never said any of those things, you are making up stuff because your arguments are not compelling enough on their own. No, I do not want everyone who goes in to come out with a crafted piece, although a bit more loot for non-components would be nice... but that, again, is the perspective of a person who is less selfish and self-centered than yourself.

Message Edited by pussycat on 08-14-2005 08:24 PM

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Qui-Rae wrote:

If these players that you keep talking about arent dedicated enough to keep trying to succeed in the dwb then the dwb truly isnt for them. Bringing down the difficulty level of it brings down the satisfaction, for everyone.

And about non-component loot, go kill nightsisters, aakuans, do npc bh missions if you have a bh, krayts etc, etc.

The DWB is there for 2 things;

• The challange

• The satisfaction of succeeding in it

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You just *don't* get it... you don't get it at all. In my server there may be a handful of truly dedicated DWB veterans... We could (and probly would) be down there every night... but there just isn't enough interest from enough people to truly do it on a regular basis -- which is what you need ultimately to get the most out of the DWB. You keep insisting that it's the players that have to be BLAMED for faulty game design. If at least the drop rates for components were slightly higher, then it probably wouldn't be such a big deal even in smaller servers. But the fact remains, that in a server the size of my home server, there just aren't enough people willing to go there on a daily basis for several months... at least so far there haven't been. Heck, I could easily spend 40 hours a week in there, and enjoy every single minute of it. (And it wouldn't even be about getting something for myself - I already have a jetpack and I don't want Mando armor because it doesn't work with my toons. I would, however, love to see someone craft a full set of Mando armor for themselves).

And this is the part where you somehow will try to make it look like I'm at fault for that. And I'm not -- nobody is. The only culprit is the faulty game design. That is why the difficulty level should be brought down, at least when it comes to the drop rates for Mando components -- the drop rates for jetpack parts are somewhat higher, yet the server is not swamped with newbies in jetpacks. But that's not enough for you and Icicleman -- NOOOOOOOOOOOO, you have to immediately resort to a catastrophic doomsday scenario, a figment of your imagination where Mos Eisley noobies will step off starport wearing a full suit of Mando armor. *sigh*

The drop of non-component loot also should be increased, because a lot of the people who could potential going there either are not interested or don't care for jetpacks or Mando armor, yet it's at their expense that folks who *do* want jetpacks or Mando armor end up getting it... and you are proposing that the people who end up getting crafted items from the DWB continue riding on the backs of those who end up with nothing but useless datapads or rebreathers... where does this selfishness come from?

The bottom line is, the drop rates for Mando components could be *slightly* increased and it wouldn't take away the challenge of the DWB, it would make it accessible to a greater number of players, and would result in greater customer satisfaction with SWG.

Lastly, neither you nor Icecleman can tell me that I do not enjoy a challenge... I have been to the DWB several dozen times in the last few months, I have killed both Overlords in a single trip, I know the foreman's quest by heart, I have been in the crafting room for both jetpacks and Mando armor parts (both succesful crafting sessions). I even have done the Rebel factional quest -- and gotten the measly 487 credits for it . So don't come in here and say I don't enjoy a challenge, because in reality it is the other way around... but the DWB is a group effort, you cannot deny it because it's true.

Danone, Icicleman and Qui-Rae -- the conditions that exist in Corbantis are not the same in all of the servers... I challenge any one of you to come to a smaller server and get some Mando armor crafted. If things are as easy as you claim, then you shouldn't have any problems, right?

Message Edited by pussycat on 08-15-2005 04:23 AM

I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying it's balanced. For 3 days after the CU, the DWB was insanely easy and I saw groups with CL 35s go into the mines. It should not be that way. That's why the Devs came to Corbantis and ran through it with 4 seperate groups, each with devs in it. That is why they rebalanced it. If it was unbalanced, or not how they intended it, it was changed to how it was intended then.