Game Guides Archive
Thread: Friday Feature January 21st – Combat Upgrade New Faction Armor
DirkTheDaring wrote:
Isn't anyone upset that composite armor isn't Star Warsy? Where have you all been for the last year and a half? Why not complain about it too?
They could have steel plating (or some other high tech material) surgically implanted under their skin too, but that's just silly. I think the idea of bullet proof vests under the Rebel Trooper uniforms is just as silly. Why should the armor look just like the 'flight deck' uniforms?
Um... where were YOU when all the complaining about composite was happening. There was a LOT.
And the idea of armor under uniforms is no sillier than the look of the Rebel armor we're being asked to accept.
The reason Rebel armor should look like what was seen in the original trilogy is that the original trilogy timeframe is what the game is SUPPOSED to be based on. The masses of Jedi running around has taken us away from that, granted, but that's no reason to keep piling on more stuff that takes us even further away from the source material.
Message Edited by RontoMike on 01-24-2005 05:33 AM
RougeSmuggler wrote:I didn't see this response from TH, thanks for reposting it silversaber...But I think its important to notice TH's last sentence: "Now we just have to enable all the folks that don't want to wear armor but participate in heavy combat get the protection they need. It's too early to talk about, but that is a consideration in play and one that I know is important to the community."This is really key I think to our complaints If we can wear the uniforms that are seen in the movies, but not be punished because it's not the armor thats been designed, then I think this issue can be avoided. It's easy to say "If you don't like it, don't wear it." But the problem really is that we're forced to wear such armor because of the Combat System that SWG is designed with...I think that if wearing the uniforms seen from the movies can give you its own set of advantages(and disadvantages) then players will have a reason to retain the look of the Hoth Soldier, or Tantive IV escort. And in the end, something new is contributed(these new armor designs) and something old is affirmed,(classic uniniforms we all know and love).-redMessage Edited by RougeSmuggler on 01-24-2005 12:59 AM
Yes, thanks silversaber, I didn't catch that post until you re-posted it here as well.
And I absolutely agree, RougeSmuggler. That comment by TH is enormous.
If they can manage to impliment a combat system that can give armorerd and non-armored players equal advatages and disadvantages, then that would be fantastic.
To be honest though, I really don't see how that's going to happen (I can come up with some theories, but each one would hurt some other facet of the game).
* If they make it so that un-armored is a "defense mode" in and of itself then perhaps it can be done.
The question then becomes, will armor be needed at all? If it is equal or better than the other defense modes supplied by armor, then there would be no need for people to buy armor (Thus killing an entire profession, armorsmiths).
* If they solve it with PSG's, and the PSG's are not visable when equipped, that removes the visable/recognition element they plan to incorporate with the new combat system.
Just from considering it quickly while I type this... if it is a balanced defense mode with it's own advantages and disadvantages it could work. Either that or make PSG's a visible item when equipped (Which I always thought it should be anyway).
If they do this... I hope they make it something that looks straight out of this era... a little box with a couple of glowing LEDs strapped on to the player some how (belt?). Something similar to Vader's belt boxes, but OF COURSE different enough to not look like it's his.
Bottom lines: If they can pull off what TH mentioned, that would be great.
The New Rebel armor does nothing to make Rebel Players look any more Star Warsy than Composite Armor has ever done.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
Not bad...
Jovalaar wrote:
I think the armor should be more like this (altered picture of original to make a point)
Battle Armor
Bottom line more face.
DeQuosaek wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
Yes, but they could have taken the basic look of that outfit, slapped a few armor plates on the chest, legs and arms, and presto: Instant Star Warsyrebel armor.
Besides, one could argue that the Corvette outfit is just as much armor as the current rebel Marine Armor. That's basically just a greenish jumpsuit with a few pieces of metal here and there...
They also could have taken the Imperial uniforms and slapped on armor plating, but you know what? That would just look dumb. The same goes for doing that for the Rebels.
(in my opinion)
Message Edited by Surseance on 01-24-2005 08:39 PM
silversaber wrote:
Repost of a responce I made to TH in another thread:
Thunderheart wrote:
Silver - Im glad you posted in a way that would make it easy for me to respond =P
Im glad you think it is an improvement and I know that the new Rebel armor won't be for everyone. It certainly is for me. Back when I was a kid and fell in love with Star Wars, I fell for it because it had that gritty sci-fi feel to it. The new armor (again, I am speaking just personally) really brings that feel back for me.
From another standpoint, where I can certainly empathize with the look and feel of the Rebels in the movies, we never saw battlefield armor outside of Hoth. What we did see though was that Rebels had gear for different types of situations. The new Faction Rebel armor is for heavy battle action.
And like I said, when we did all the research on Rebel Armor (which is not gray khakis and a black vest), what was available just didn't have the grit and oomph that the Imperial Faction armor had.
There is another aspect to consider. For every piece of armor that is out there, there has to be a special helmet to accommodatethe heads, etc. By covering the face and head, we can make one helmet for the majority of the species (sans Wookiees and Ithorians). By making those choices, we were able to get four newtypes of armor included into the CU and I like that.
But speaking directly to your concerns, there is two things to consider. The first is that this new armor system makes adding different types of armor in the future much easier (relatively). The other is that those familiar gray khakis and black vest with the clamshell helmet is Star Wars and something the team is keeping in mind.
I'm working with the loot team to get that clamshell helmet into the game as a loot drop. That gets most of the key wearables for that "look" in the game. Now we just have to enable all the folks that don't want to wear armor but participate in heavy combat get the protection they need. It's too early to talk about, but that is a consideration in play and one that I know is important to the community.
I had not realized that the passion of my posts keep you from responding.
Anyhoo, TH its important for you to realize that many, MANY concessions towards playability has been made at the sacrafice of Starwarsyness in this game. Its almost becomeing a game that has a somewhat starwars flavor, instead of a Starwars game. These new armor suits im afraid does not help any. In fact it makes it way worse.
While the grey khakies and black vests may not have to "oomph" as the Imp armor, they have a HUGE advantage of being familiar and Starwars.
Like others have pointed out, a really big thing in the movies was the Imp Solders were always the faceless, evil, unstoppable force, while the Rebel solders alwayswore Helms that had open faces to show thier humanity, and no obvious armor so as tolook like they were always at the disadvantage. This is Starwars. Please, please lets try to preserve this.
Maybe, as a compromise, we can keep our khakies and black vests with clam shell Hems, and make the major diferences with Personal Shield Generators.
More specifically, make the Scout Armor just like the uniforms and helms as the same as those that landed with Luke, Lea, Han and Chewy on Endor to disable the shield generators. Then the khakies and black vests with clam shell Hems for the intermediate armor.Then a more fancier version of the khakies and black vests with clam shell Hems for the assault armor.
All of these uniforms and helms would have separate PSG's made specifically for these uniforms that made them equal to the Imp armor.
While this isnt as flashy and nasty looking as the current armor, its Starwars!
And right now, thats VERY important.
Anyone agree? disagree?
Message Edited by RougeSmuggler on 01-24-2005 12:59 AM
RontoMike wrote:
DirkTheDaring wrote:
RontoMike wrote:
Ok. Valid points. But... there was no Rebel armor in the original trilogy and most times when confronted by armored Storm Troopers the unarmored Rebels were overwhelmed and massacred. Would you rather the game be unfairly slanted that way? Simply put, no armor exists to base this on. And basing it on their uniforms - to me - is just silly.
I think they did a fine job with the exception of there seems to be no visible eye slots in some of the helms too see out of and to me it gives them a funny look - almost like a droid. I imagine this is to compensate for species whose eyes are in different places, but couldn't there be a variant or two made?
Again, no VISIBLE armor was seen on Rebels. If you're going into battle against opponents that you KNOWwill bearmored, you're an idiot if you don't wear some form of armoryourself.. and the guard troops on Leia's ship would have donned it the second the chase started, just on the chance they might have to repel boarders. Rebels also have another reason for wearing concealed armor protection... the "stealth" factor. If you see someone walking around in full armor, that just advertises that they're expecting trouble. A Rebel would want to be more low-key than that, but at the same time be prepared if things DID go down. And again, I cannot understand how you feel that basing Rebel faction gear on what was seen on-screen is silly. If anything, it should be mandatory.
Ok, I guessRebels should get a protective vest, protective shirt and protective khaki pants along with their clam shell hardhat. Maybe using that as one set of armor would make you happy. Now what about the other sets? Did the rebels wear anything else that we can just say they had armor on underneath? Well, they wore flightsuits from time to time. Let's put flak jackets under those for their battle armor, shall we? That looks Star Warsy and look like something they would wear when preparing for heavy combat. Sure. 
Wait, Leia wore a little white robe, maybe that should be armor too. 
You have to take into account that there is a Galactic Civil War spanning many worlds and hundreds of thousands of people. You saw the story of maybe a few hundred people in the movies. The Star Wars universe in which we play is much bigger than only the movies that have taken place up until this point. I'm sure there were other troops and battles that weren't shown on screen. We only saw a portion of the GCW. Maybe there were other troops and cells elsewhere that were heavily armoredand doing assaults.
DirkTheDaring wrote:
Ok, I guessRebels should get a protective vest, protective shirt and protective khaki pants along with their clam shell hardhat. Maybe using that as one set of armor would make you happy. Now what about the other sets? Did the rebels wear anything else that we can just say they had armor on underneath? Well, they wore flightsuits from time to time. Let's put flak jackets under those for their battle armor, shall we? That looks Star Warsy and look like something they would wear when preparing for heavy combat. Sure.
You have to take into account that there is a Galactic Civil War spanning many worlds and hundreds of thousands of people. You saw the story of maybe a few hundred people in the movies. The Star Wars universe in which we play is much bigger than only the movies that have taken place up until this point. I'm sure there were other troops and battles that weren't shown on screen. We only saw a portion of the GCW. Maybe there were other troops and cells elsewhere that were heavily armoredand doing assaults.
Flight suits don't need armor... those guys are already in armored vehicles. As far as the second part of your argument... ALL we have to go on for the "look" of Star Wars is the films. Even the EU stuff shouldn't be relied on much, as Lucas can (and has) contradict it at any time. And the "look" of this game is ALL that makes it Star Wars. What they're proposing for Rebel armor looks more like something out of the Star Trek franchise with a Rebel crest slapped on. In a word... ick. )
RontoMike wrote:
"Leia's robe" indeed... I'm afraid 100% of the silliness is on your side of this discussion...
3 basic uniforms would suffice... ANH trooper, Hoth snow gear & Endor camos. That's it. (I don't know WHY you cling to the medieval notion of armor plates that must be worn over clothing. Too much Everquest, perhaps?
The Leia's robe analogy was only used to point out how - to me - the whole armor in clothes' clothing seems silly to me. The same goes for flight suits. But there's no real consistency in the 'look' of the Rebels in the films. So there's not really anything to base the armor on. You might be able to ask your friendly neighborhood armorsmith to color your helmwhite to emulate the clam shell helmet, the chestplate black to emulate the vest, the arm pieces sky blue to emulate the shirt, and the leggings khakito emulate the pants of the beloved Rebel troopson the ill-fated Blockade Runner. Ta-da. A simple solution that works for everyone.
Speaking of midieval notions... this was a long time ago. (in a galaxy far, far away)And wealready have access to the 3 basic uniforms. Tailors can work wonders with the resources they've given us. There's no need to makeallRebel armorlook like what a select few troops wore in a select few battles.
(I only played Ever Quest for about 30 minutes on someone else's unused freetrial and I didn't like the primitive graphics or the vague gameplay at the time )
*edit* Almost forgot toreply to your EU comment... This game is part of the EU. And it has many things from the EU already incoporated. It makes sense to rely on some things from the EU.
Message Edited by DirkTheDaring on 01-24-2005 04:14 PM
- just like alot of other SWG players 
Surseance wrote:
DeQuosaek wrote:
They also could have taken the Imperial uniforms and slapped on armor plating, but you know what? That would just look dumb. The same goes for doing that for the Rebels.
(in my opinion)
I don't think General Veers looks dumb.
I'm pretty sure the rebels used technology similar to that of the Empire as well - just look at ensign Chad Hilse's helmet compared to an imperial navy trooper's helmet, for instance. Yep, they look similar but are variations over the same theme.
And hey, we all know Luke and Han "borrowed" stormtrooper armor.
I don't think that General Veers looks dumb either, but then again, I don't think his Imperial uniform had any armor. I don't think he needed any armor in the heavily armored All Terrain Armored Transport. /shrug
DirkTheDaring wrote:
I don't think that General Veers looks dumb either, but then again, I don't think his Imperial uniform had any armor. I don't think he needed any armor in the heavily armored All Terrain Armored Transport. /shrug
Probably had a use, don't you think?Message Edited by Surseance on 01-25-2005 01:29 AM
Surseance wrote:
DirkTheDaring wrote:
I don't think that General Veers looks dumb either, but then again, I don't think his Imperial uniform had any armor. I don't think he needed any armor in the heavily armored All Terrain Armored Transport. /shrug
Can't deny he still used it though, while still inside the AT-AT
D'oh! I didn't click the picture to see the full view. Now I see what you meant. I guess it does look a little like the Imperial uniform because it's the same color, but otherwise it looks like big bulky armor.
I dunno. I personally don't mind the new Rebel armor. I think it could use a little visual tweaking here and there, but all things considered... good job devs and artists!