Game Guides Archive

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EEMAN wrote:
Thunderheart it is clear by this and many other threads just how deep this jedi vs non-jedi animosity runs. The jedi OFTEN refer to non jedi as 'laymen', 'laypersons', 'mundanes', 'interactive NPC' and so on and so forth. They somehow have arrived at this sense of self entitlement that is evident in EVERYTHING they do and post. Everyhing should be given to them because they spent 6 months grinding. Wow, I have been playing this game since early beta. I have ground professions when some of these new players were still potty training. Every day I spend on average 30-60 minutes just filling out bug reports. I have been accepted to every Beta test and during those phases commited 3-4 hours a day finding and reporting bugs comming up with every way to break something I can think of. That kind of 'work' clearly is much much MUCH greater than the kind of 'work' some jedi spends playing a game and yet I have no special 'I win' button that makes these jedi fall over dead when they come within 30m of me. I dont fill the forums with page after page requesting you elevate everything specific to me and all the while bring down everyone around me.

This arguement of work involved shouldnt get even a minuscule bit of consideration. The hard grind is there to make them rare, not make them elite. It could take 2 years and they be no more powerful than a regular player and the long grind is STILL justified becaues it exists for the sole purpose of making jedi rare. Now previously I explained that better ways exist to make jedi rare, but currently this is the only one and you keep reducing this 'penalty' which makes jedi less and less rare. First there was a hard grind, an unknown way to become jedi, and permadeath. Then it was a known way to grind, permadeath and a long grind. Then its a known system and a long grind but 3 deaths within 2 weeks for permadeath to take affect. Then its a known long grind and you lose a skill box every time you die. Then its an XP loss on death and a known grind. Then its revamped so they get their own nondefendable damage type by the majority of us 'mundane' not to mention the entire PVE arena, a quest and a long grind with XP loss. Then we get a CU which brings them from 8x more powerful than any other profession in the game to just 1.5x more powerful (if you cant do the math dont bother replying). Then they removed XP loss on PVE death. Then they removed XP loss on PVP death that isnt from a bounty hunter.

They fear NOTHING and flaunt their robes and their sabers everywhere. They force meditate and channel force in cantinas. They pvp in front of starports. Now they are actively campaigning to systematically get every SINGLE special nerfed that has a chance of taking them down because 'afterall I'm a Jedi and mundanes shouldnt be able to kill me because they are just stupid mundanes'. I even had a Jedi on Chilastra named -Ultra send a email to a guildie once about how he owned the geo cave and it was his right to prevent anyone else from grinding there because SOE has elevated him to the status of GOD and GOD has decree'd that noone else is allowed in there. They pick and they pick and they chisel and they weasel every SINGLE change one at a time. They will never be happy until you finally change it to a ingame form that one submits requesting jedi and upon aproval (which is mandated all forms are automatically approved) they get to type /firstspec on their next login and just choose the boxes in jedi they would like to have. Mark my words, next they will start demanding the XP requirements of each box be lowered if they havent already.

Nearly all of the rest of us 'peons/laypeople/mundanes' are so sick of the jedi and their Holier than Thou attitude, you can almost feel the hate dripping off the walls. If you run astromech stats on the respec I bet will find an overwhelming amout of players that took up BH just because they are so sick of Jedi. They give nothing to the community, they have been made entirely self sufficent. They need no clothing. They need no weapons. They need no armor. They usually dont even need docs to heal their wounds. I and many others in my guild and on servers across all galaxy want to know one simple thing, we have one meager request:

Can you PLEASE create a galaxy cluster for us and make it a NO JEDI galaxy?!

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Palath wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:

TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.

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No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvPshould be working correctly (and fairly).

The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.

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TH... the answer is so plainly simple, I can't see the necessity to draw it out for so long. CU has been live for a month, now. That's a long time for something like this to go on, when the solution is so simple:

Abilities/Skills with similar effects should all have a timer on the TARGET (completely separarate from the "re-use" timer of the attacker). Within a set period of time, certain abilities/skills should only work ONCE. Do you remember the old system, where you could only KD your opponent once every 30 seconds? That was a great idea. Just put it into the game now, and everyone's happy. No need to nerf a good skill. PvE should not be affected. But for PvP, the person who is being rooted should have a period of time AFTER the root where he/she is IMMUNE to further ROOT. SNARE would be a separate timer, but it would work the same way.

And this is NOT how it currently is in the game. Right now, the timer is based ONLY on the attacker. Example: As a Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, you get quite an arsenal of "crowd control" abilities. These can be CHAIN FIRED on a single target, and they even stack! So if you time them all right, you can seriously keep someone PERMENANTLY rooted.

As much as I enjoy using this ability myself... it poses a major issue for ALL melee characters (including melee Jedi, which is most of us). We can potentially become rooted and shot at without being able to defend at all. Hence, the need for change.Rapid change.

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I am really new to the game but I seen this post and thought i should post. I want to become a Jedi some day. PvE stopping shot is a great tool. In PvP its suck to be stoped in your tracks and not be able to do any thing. OR can you? If it is 1 BH and 1 jedi they cant keep them rooted all the time.

The problem is not the stoping shot. the PROBLEMS ARE

1}...1level 80, MBH/MP going after a level 30 Jedi.( the fix dont let MBH get a lower level lission)

2}... 5 level 80 master BH going afterOne level 80 Jedi. ( the fix make it only 3 max that can get mission)

OR

Make is so you dont get on terms unless you go overt as a jedi. There is alot of master PvPers that like BH attacks. Then there is me. I PAY to have fun. If i want to group with 7 guildmates and go hunting then i should be able to with out having to have everyone help me watch for a BH to jump me when I'm mid fight. To me the GAME is about grouping with friends and having fun. How can you do this when you have BH sitting at the starports just waiting on you to load in so the can have you half dead before you get logged in? There is no way to balance a game like this.There will be people that use anything they can to make the game work like they want it to. This week its stopping shot.I think we as players need to think of way to make the game better with out taking away skills we have all learned how to use.

Just some thoughtI had in my head.

Scrapie

Personally, this seems like a pretty good publish.

As a role-play advocate, I think that the two seater vehicle thing is very good. Anything that makes the game more realistic is good if you ask me.

Those of you whom are saying, "fix the major bugs and the professions before you make the vehicles two seaters" do not understand that there are groups that work on different things. I'm sure that the two seater situation is something that someone has been working on for a while, and just got done when it was time for the new publish. Other people are working on those other problems, and maybe the ones whom were doing the two seat vehicles now that they are done.

To me it seems like I level 80 jedi vs. like 4 level 80 bounty hunters should be about a fair fight. Oh, maybe not. I'm sure that Jenga, or Boba for that matter on a normal day was a match for most "normal" jedi.

It would be nice to see the "only bug fixes" publish that many are calling for, but it seems pretty far fetched. Besides, as soon as another publish or expansion came out, there would be a whole new slew of bugs, plus a bunch of the old ones will stop working again.

Now, as for all the complainers. I think you have a right to complain, as you are paying for this game. However, the pure childishness of many of you and your constant whining is enough to drive someone crazy. What you should do is post what you have a problem with and if you can, a logical suggestion for a fix. Just saying that you don't know how these people keep their jobs is rediculous.

May the force be with you.

Message Edited by Graxul on 05-26-2005 09:57 PM

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Graxul wrote:

I just wish the jedi would get it through their tiny little brains that they aren't invincible. They shouldn't be able to own everything that comes against them. The devs said many times before that jedi are supposed to be 1.5X stronger than any other profession. To me this means if a jedi meets 2 bounty hunters that are level 80(bounty hunter + a different profession each) the jedi is going to die. They should realize this by now and stop their incessant whining. And if I'm not mistaken don't jedi have a root of their own that they can use? I mention this because I have been rooted by a jedi before in a friendly duel. But maybe thats just my imagination...if it isn't they have no room to whine. If they need to whine about something then maybe they should ask for a way of reducing visibility.

I know I would much prefer jedi fighting other jedi rather than all the crap thats going on now. But I'm not a completely heartless sob. How about this jedi can group with other jedi or fight other jedi without gaining visibility. If they group with non jedi or are seen fighting or showing off their powers to non jedi then the entire bounty hunter population of the server should consider them fair game to hunt till a bounty hunter kills them...then back to 0 visibility. Death by Bounty hunter(s) should also effect their FRS or Jedi council standing as a punishment to rogue Jedi knights that feel they must reveal themselves to non jedi and impact the lives of non jedi. And in so doing this would be a just way to enforce jedi not revealing themselves and to keep them hidden from the non jedi public. Jedi are overpowered against non jedi....so keep them out of non jedi affairs. I'm really tired of this incessant whining and nerf crying from the jedi/bounty hunter populace. Or we could ask that if anyone sees a jedi or padawan with their lightsaber out or even their tags showing that everyone can join in and blast them all to oblivion. Something needs to be done i'm tired of being nerfed because of jedi whines because they failed to keep themselves off the terms. You want to be overpowered one on one against non jedi fine....but don't whine cause you die to multiple bounty hunters...because of your own stupidity or arrogance. Padawans aren't jedi yet and because of this they should fear even solo level 80 bounty hunters...because only jedi knights are 1.5x stronger than a single non jedi profession so therefore they should expect to die....over and over and over until they learn how to stay off the terms. Padawans aren't a Jedi...yet and Bounty Hunters are supposed to keep the numbers of jedi down...that is their job and from what I have seen they are doing it well. 1 BH vs 1 Padawan should equal 1 dead Padawan. 2 or more BHs vs 1 Jedi should equal 1 dead Jedi. If that is not the case then by the 1.5x stronger than a non jedi profession standard JEDI SHOULD BE NERFED.

If you can't tell I'm really annoyed by the nerf cries of Jedi thinking they should be GODS. They aren't and they shouldn't even consider the notion. Bring back Permadeath. You want nerf cries I'll give you nerf cries. You let me play my game without fearing a nerf because an already overpowered profession thinks they shouldn't be able to die, then I won't ask for you and your kind to be removed totally from the game via permadeath. SOE are already bending themnselves over backwards to even allow jedi in the current timeline...where even Luke isn't even a jedi yet. Personally I feel that we should only at most have force sensitives...but thats just me. You want to cry nerf...well the nerf bat swings both ways.

Message Edited by Graxul on 05-26-2005 09:57 PM

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EEMAN wrote:
Thunderheart it is clear by this and many other threads just how deep this jedi vs non-jedi animosity runs. The jedi OFTEN refer to non jedi as 'laymen', 'laypersons', 'mundanes', 'interactive NPC' and so on and so forth. They somehow have arrived at this sense of self entitlement that is evident in EVERYTHING they do and post. Everyhing should be given to them because they spent 6 months grinding. Wow, I have been playing this game since early beta. I have ground professions when some of these new players were still potty training. Every day I spend on average 30-60 minutes just filling out bug reports. I have been accepted to every Beta test and during those phases commited 3-4 hours a day finding and reporting bugs comming up with every way to break something I can think of. That kind of 'work' clearly is much much MUCH greater than the kind of 'work' some jedi spends playing a game and yet I have no special 'I win' button that makes these jedi fall over dead when they come within 30m of me. I dont fill the forums with page after page requesting you elevate everything specific to me and all the while bring down everyone around me.

This arguement of work involved shouldnt get even a minuscule bit of consideration. The hard grind is there to make them rare, not make them elite. It could take 2 years and they be no more powerful than a regular player and the long grind is STILL justified becaues it exists for the sole purpose of making jedi rare. Now previously I explained that better ways exist to make jedi rare, but currently this is the only one and you keep reducing this 'penalty' which makes jedi less and less rare. First there was a hard grind, an unknown way to become jedi, and permadeath. Then it was a known way to grind, permadeath and a long grind. Then its a known system and a long grind but 3 deaths within 2 weeks for permadeath to take affect. Then its a known long grind and you lose a skill box every time you die. Then its an XP loss on death and a known grind. Then its revamped so they get their own nondefendable damage type by the majority of us 'mundane' not to mention the entire PVE arena, a quest and a long grind with XP loss. Then we get a CU which brings them from 8x more powerful than any other profession in the game to just 1.5x more powerful (if you cant do the math dont bother replying). Then they removed XP loss on PVE death. Then they removed XP loss on PVP death that isnt from a bounty hunter.

They fear NOTHING and flaunt their robes and their sabers everywhere. They force meditate and channel force in cantinas. They pvp in front of starports. Now they are actively campaigning to systematically get every SINGLE special nerfed that has a chance of taking them down because 'afterall I'm a Jedi and mundanes shouldnt be able to kill me because they are just stupid mundanes'. I even had a Jedi on Chilastra named -Ultra send a email to a guildie once about how he owned the geo cave and it was his right to prevent anyone else from grinding there because SOE has elevated him to the status of GOD and GOD has decree'd that noone else is allowed in there. They pick and they pick and they chisel and they weasel every SINGLE change one at a time. They will never be happy until you finally change it to a ingame form that one submits requesting jedi and upon aproval (which is mandated all forms are automatically approved) they get to type /firstspec on their next login and just choose the boxes in jedi they would like to have. Mark my words, next they will start demanding the XP requirements of each box be lowered if they havent already.

Nearly all of the rest of us 'peons/laypeople/mundanes' are so sick of the jedi and their Holier than Thou attitude, you can almost feel the hate dripping off the walls. If you run astromech stats on the respec I bet will find an overwhelming amout of players that took up BH just because they are so sick of Jedi. They give nothing to the community, they have been made entirely self sufficent. They need no clothing. They need no weapons. They need no armor. They usually dont even need docs to heal their wounds. I and many others in my guild and on servers across all galaxy want to know one simple thing, we have one meager request:

Can you PLEASE create a galaxy cluster for us and make it a NO JEDI galaxy?!

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/QFE

Both me and my wife have played since launch... or rather the day after launch for those of you that now what I am talking about... anyway I am a 12 point MWS/MDE/M Merchant, She is a 12 point MAS/M architect/M Artisanshe is almost about to unlock her jedi 2 more FS skill boxes... I am getting close to unlocking with our combat alt about 6 FS skill boxes left. between all our toons we have about 8k items, 50-100 million resoruces, about 80 million credits,500 million+ creditsin loot/rewarditems. We would give it all up tomorrow if they created a no jedi server.

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Jediforcefighter wrote:

The jedi are not angry because we should be gods, we are angry because we are far too weak to survive the basics a jedi was supposed to be able to handle. As you can see, jedi have the lowest damage damage on most servers as well as the many bugs, and constant problems with bounty hunters trying to grief a jedi. Read the Jedi forums for once and you'll see the hundreds of bugs and flaws that have been made and keeping jedi from being able to co-op with the game. Jedi don't care if they're gods or not, if they did the same damage as the toughest professions they'd even be happier, but for the most of us, we're doing 5 times less than the strongest profession making us the weakest profession in the game, inwhich most ofthe people that have jedi earned the right to be called jedi.

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you have never played a jedi in PvP if you think Jedi is the weakest profession

Jedi own non-jedi in PvP. My guild mate has a LS that is 400+ bDPS.... that is better than any weapon I have seen... how can't you say jedi dont do much damage. when I go hunting with other jedi they are consistantly out damaging me doing 1k+ per hit. On top of that they can heal faster than me, they can make weapons better than me, and they dont need armor. and I couold really careless about all that if jedi werent crying that they are too weak.

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Jediforcefighter wrote:

The jedi are not angry because we should be gods, we are angry because we are far too weak to survive the basics a jedi was supposed to be able to handle. As you can see, jedi have the lowest damage damage on most servers as well as the many bugs, and constant problems with bounty hunters trying to grief a jedi. Read the Jedi forums for once and you'll see the hundreds of bugs and flaws that have been made and keeping jedi from being able to co-op with the game. Jedi don't care if they're gods or not, if they did the same damage as the toughest professions they'd even be happier, but for the most of us, we're doing 5 times less than the strongest profession making us the weakest profession in the game, inwhich most ofthe people that have jedi earned the right to be called jedi.

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HAHA

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Jediforcefighter wrote:

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Graxul wrote:

I just wish the jedi would get it through their tiny little brains that they aren't invincible. They shouldn't be able to own everything that comes against them. The devs said many times before that jedi are supposed to be 1.5X stronger than any other profession. To me this means if a jedi meets 2 bounty hunters that are level 80(bounty hunter + a different profession each) the jedi is going to die. They should realize this by now and stop their incessant whining. And if I'm not mistaken don't jedi have a root of their own that they can use? I mention this because I have been rooted by a jedi before in a friendly duel. But maybe thats just my imagination...if it isn't they have no room to whine. If they need to whine about something then maybe they should ask for a way of reducing visibility.

I know I would much prefer jedi fighting other jedi rather than all the crap thats going on now. But I'm not a completely heartless sob. How about this jedi can group with other jedi or fight other jedi without gaining visibility. If they group with non jedi or are seen fighting or showing off their powers to non jedi then the entire bounty hunter population of the server should consider them fair game to hunt till a bounty hunter kills them...then back to 0 visibility. Death by Bounty hunter(s) should also effect their FRS or Jedi council standing as a punishment to rogue Jedi knights that feel they must reveal themselves to non jedi and impact the lives of non jedi. And in so doing this would be a just way to enforce jedi not revealing themselves and to keep them hidden from the non jedi public. Jedi are overpowered against non jedi....so keep them out of non jedi affairs. I'm really tired of this incessant whining and nerf crying from the jedi/bounty hunter populace. Or we could ask that if anyone sees a jedi or padawan with their lightsaber out or even their tags showing that everyone can join in and blast them all to oblivion. Something needs to be done i'm tired of being nerfed because of jedi whines because they failed to keep themselves off the terms. You want to be overpowered one on one against non jedi fine....but don't whine cause you die to multiple bounty hunters...because of your own stupidity or arrogance. Padawans aren't jedi yet and because of this they should fear even solo level 80 bounty hunters...because only jedi knights are 1.5x stronger than a single non jedi profession so therefore they should expect to die....over and over and over until they learn how to stay off the terms. Padawans aren't a Jedi...yet and Bounty Hunters are supposed to keep the numbers of jedi down...that is their job and from what I have seen they are doing it well. 1 BH vs 1 Padawan should equal 1 dead Padawan. 2 or more BHs vs 1 Jedi should equal 1 dead Jedi. If that is not the case then by the 1.5x stronger than a non jedi profession standard JEDI SHOULD BE NERFED.

If you can't tell I'm really annoyed by the nerf cries of Jedi thinking they should be GODS. They aren't and they shouldn't even consider the notion. Bring back Permadeath. You want nerf cries I'll give you nerf cries. You let me play my game without fearing a nerf because an already overpowered profession thinks they shouldn't be able to die, then I won't ask for you and your kind to be removed totally from the game via permadeath. SOE are already bending themnselves over backwards to even allow jedi in the current timeline...where even Luke isn't even a jedi yet. Personally I feel that we should only at most have force sensitives...but thats just me. You want to cry nerf...well the nerf bat swings both ways.

Message Edited by Graxul on 05-26-2005 09:57 PM

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The jedi are not angry because we should be gods, we are angry because we are far too weak to survive the basics a jedi was supposed to be able to handle. As you can see, jedi have the lowest damage damage on most servers as well as the many bugs, and constant problems with bounty hunters trying to grief a jedi. Read the Jedi forums for once and you'll see the hundreds of bugs and flaws that have been made and keeping jedi from being able to co-op with the game. Jedi don't care if they're gods or not, if they did the same damage as the toughest professions they'd even be happier, but for the most of us, we're doing 5 times less than the strongest profession making us the weakest profession in the game, inwhich most ofthe people that have jedi earned the right to be called jedi.

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