Game Guides Archive
Thread: Tuesday Tips May 24th Stopping Shot
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvPshould be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvP should be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
See my above post
Thunderheart wrote:
Giftmacher wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Did these discussions include giving ranged professions another tactical advantage instead of the root in case something like that gets implemented? Because, well, that's pretty much the only thing making melee and ranged equal (balanced) but still different (meant for a different use and to be played with different tactics) right now. Taking it away and not replacing it with something else would greatly disturb the whole melee/ranged playstyle difference vision and once again lead to a completely melee-centric game.
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Yes, looking at as many tactical situations as possible is always the goal (but players will always find new and interesting ways to use their character's abilities).Going forward, the first and most important thing to consider is the timer associated with the root.Wouldn't the simplest thing be to associate the timer with the target and not the targeter? That way you couldn't perma root anything, and you could even reduce the stopping shot timer to allow pistoleers to really fufil the crowd control role they are meant to; instead of perma rooting one mob/player pistoleers could temporarily root a handful of targets. That way everyone wins, no perma rooting, and groups become less pistoleer-centric as one pistoleer should be enough to help create breathing room when a score of mobs attack, or more resposively act to limit kiteing when melee players need to go after a new target..There is a timer that is should act as a limiter. It is being looked at now, before any other alternative.Glad to hear it, right now the timer just seems to be applied at the wrong end and in doing so not only does it leave the door open for an unintended permaroot it also limits the pistoleer prof to a single target control rather than a crowd control role.Gift.
As I understand it, the target is what the timer is associated with (and also being looked at to make sure the duration is correct).
There's something else to consider with root. It doesnt always appear to function completely.
I'll try other creatures, but at least on dewbacks, sometimes if we lead root them (via stopping shot, or concussion shot), the root will still appear on the modifiers bar, but the animal will charge and hit someone in the group, and can moveat least 50m while rooted. It will start hitting someone before it actually appears to be next to them. (I use the combat damage notices and my character making noises of getting hit to tellthat I have to start moving.)
Once I move out of the way, it usually stays put for the remaining duration of its life.
So it already seems as though root is not 100% effective in PvE.
Clearly some changes should be made to PvP, but this is the only way normal people can work on high level content without the help of jedi.
TH, while investigating this, you should also look into the KD timer on the target as well. Removing the ability to perma root is one step, but then you have to remember that once that goes away, then the BH's will just go and perma KD, if you have a group of 3 bh's its not hard to do...
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvPshould be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvPshould be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
The simple way to do it?
Institute a timer on after root breaks, before it can be successfully applied again (a la the old KD timer)
BTW....Any fixes for Commando coming soon?
MrWizzard wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Giftmacher wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Did these discussions include giving ranged professions another tactical advantage instead of the root in case something like that gets implemented? Because, well, that's pretty much the only thing making melee and ranged equal (balanced) but still different (meant for a different use and to be played with different tactics) right now. Taking it away and not replacing it with something else would greatly disturb the whole melee/ranged playstyle difference vision and once again lead to a completely melee-centric game.
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Yes, looking at as many tactical situations as possible is always the goal (but players will always find new and interesting ways to use their character's abilities).
Going forward, the first and most important thing to consider is the timer associated with the root.
Wouldn't the simplest thing be to associate the timer with the target and not the targeter? That way you couldn't perma root anything, and you could even reduce the stopping shot timer to allow pistoleers to really fufil the crowd control role they are meant to; instead of perma rooting one mob/player pistoleers could temporarily root a handful of targets. That way everyone wins, no perma rooting, and groups become less pistoleer-centric as one pistoleer should be enough to help create breathing room when a score of mobs attack, or more resposively act to limit kiteing when melee players need to go after a new target..
There is a timer that is should act as a limiter. It is being looked at now, before any other alternative.
Glad to hear it, right now the timer just seems to be applied at the wrong end and in doing so not only does it leave the door open for an unintended permaroot it also limits the pistoleer prof to a single target control rather than a crowd control role.
Gift.
As I understand it, the target is what the timer is associated with (and also being looked at to make sure the duration is correct).
There's something else to consider with root. It doesnt always appear to function completely.
I'll try other creatures, but at least on dewbacks, sometimes if we lead root them (via stopping shot, or concussion shot), the root will still appear on the modifiers bar, but the animal will charge and hit someone in the group, and can moveat least 50m while rooted. It will start hitting someone before it actually appears to be next to them. (I use the combat damage notices and my character making noises of getting hit to tellthat I have to start moving.)
Once I move out of the way, it usually stays put for the remaining duration of its life.
So it already seems as though root is not 100% effective in PvE.
Clearly some changes should be made to PvP, but this is the only way normal people can work on high level content without the help of jedi.
This is very true, because last night me and a friend took on Mellachai? and he's a level 85 with a bad temper. Without root and snared, there is no way that we would have beat him without a Jedi and we did not want a Jedi, because we felt theywere not needed. Felt really good to beat him too, using the skills we had and a little patience.
Message Edited by IkarusSunblaster on 05-26-2005 09:26 AM
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvP should be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
Thunderheart...
You used to play this game. You should know how things are. Is it or isn't it meant to be hard to be Jedi? Should Jedi or should they not have to deal with a really tough situation secure in the knowledge they already have their reward. They're Jedi. They don't fear permadeath anymore, they don't fear PvE deaths anymore, they don't fear triple-incaps anymore, they don't fear nonBH PvP death anymore.
This is why they spawn like cockroaches all over every server, have big saber-fights between groups (not game mechanic groups, just groups) of 30/side in Theed and Coronet, couldn't care less about visiblity and totally ruin the GCW for every single last non-Jedi profession.
Not to mention continually cry about other professions standing some kind of vague nebulous chance at occassionally getting a shot to hit them and demand nerfs on those said professions. Such as this very thread. Don't like being hunted by BHs using Stopping Shot? Don't be a Jedi.It's meant to be HARD.
My only regret is that not enough of them will die anywhere near often enough to bring some kind of balance to the game, which currently contains a deliberately overpowered profession achievable by any mindless monkey with nothing better to do than grind. What other game designer ever even dreamed of such a situation?
TH, i remember you from the Beta forum days. You loved this game. Bring back permadeath and the Jedi TEF and restore it to what it should be.
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvPshould be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
which too bad you brilliant SOE guys wont be able to figure out how to do it.
RichardBryant wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvP should be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
Thunderheart...
You used to play this game. You should know how things are. Is it or isn't it meant to be hard to be Jedi? Should Jedi or should they not have to deal with a really tough situation secure in the knowledge they already have their reward. They're Jedi. They don't fear permadeath anymore, they don't fear PvE deaths anymore, they don't fear triple-incaps anymore, they don't fear nonBH PvP death anymore.
This is why they spawn like cockroaches all over every server, have big saber-fights between groups (not game mechanic groups, just groups) of 30/side in Theed and Coronet, couldn't care less about visiblity and totally ruin the GCW for every single last non-Jedi profession.
Not to mention continually cry about other professions standing some kind of vague nebulous chance at occassionally getting a shot to hit them and demand nerfs on those said professions. Such as this very thread. Don't like being hunted by BHs using Stopping Shot? Don't be a Jedi.It's meant to be HARD.
My only regret is that not enough of them will die anywhere near often enough to bring some kind of balance to the game, which currently contains a deliberately overpowered profession achievable by any mindless monkey with nothing better to do than grind. What other game designer ever even dreamed of such a situation?
TH, i remember you from the Beta forum days. You loved this game. Bring back permadeath and the Jedi TEF and restore it to what it should be.
/QFE!
No offense to those that are jedi..I know you worked hard for it. But this is getting silly now. You cant go ANYWHERE in the game and not run into a jedi. Nightly I am seeing any area of the game filled with Jedi running around..healing folks who need it (since there are no more doctors)...constantly being used to fill up groups to complete some of the new quests. It is getting sickning reading over and over how certain quests can easily be completed with 2 jedi in your group with defender and lightsaber. Things need to come back down to earth in terms of making it a hard life for a jedi. To keep seeing the constant catering to this profession...it is getting me more and more frustrated every day.
Again...no offense to you all that are jedi...I know you spent alot of time doing it. But even you have to admit it is getting out of hand.
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvPshould be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
I know it's a little cheesy, but what about throwing in a root recovery like the KD recovery? Make it not a sure thing, but maybe 25% chance for non-jedi and 35% for jedi of working. Or even making it 25% across the board.
Maxanto wrote:
Kurt,
Any word about the +ROOT+ that are being exploited? Or is it working as intended that players can use them to keep others perma rooted? I was also reading that damage should break a root? Is this true?
Stopping Shot does not break when damage is done.
Although you shouldn't be able to "perma-root" someone one on one. There is a timer to prevent that, though there are combinations that can makerecovering from the rootdifficult.
Now in a multi-player PvP situation, it is entirely possible for four pistoleers to "chain-root" a single opponent in combat, but hopefully that person brought along friends
Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
Thunderheart wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter.
No, not at all. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure the timer on the target is working correctly. Roots in PvE are a great tool, a necessary tool, and roots in PvPshould be working correctly (and fairly).
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
Thunderheart wrote:
The BH/Jedi situation is something altogether different. It really is a tough situation to be chased by three Bounty Hunters with this and similar abilities and will need a different kind of solution that is fair and fun for both parties.
Message Edited by Animi on 05-26-2005 11:48 AM