Game Guides Archive
Thread: Tuesday Tips May 24th Stopping Shot
EEMAN wrote:
this is an interesting point TH.. shouldnt we make sure that there is a cap of just 3 bounties on a specific jedi at any given time then? A BH/jedi situation has the potential to be 5 on 1 right now, and I am definitely seeing that since all of us ranged people picked up MBH because the melee/ranged def mods and weapon speed mods were significantly higher than any other combination.
Thunderheart wrote:
Maxanto wrote:
Kurt,
Any word about the +ROOT+ that are being exploited? Or is it working as intended that players can use them to keep others perma rooted? I was also reading that damage should break a root? Is this true?
Stopping Shot does not break when damage is done.
Although you shouldn't be able to "perma-root" someone one on one. There is a timer to prevent that, though there are combinations that can make recovering from the root difficult.
Now in a multi-player PvP situation, it is entirely possible for four pistoleers to "chain-root" a single opponent in combat, but hopefully that person brought along friends
Thunderheart wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Did these discussions include giving ranged professions another tactical advantage instead of the root in case something like that gets implemented? Because, well, that's pretty much the only thing making melee and ranged equal (balanced) but still different (meant for a different use and to be played with different tactics) right now. Taking it away and not replacing it with something else would greatly disturb the whole melee/ranged playstyle difference vision and once again lead to a completely melee-centric game.
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Yes, looking at as many tactical situations as possible is always the goal (but players will always find new and interesting ways to use their character's abilities).
Going forward, the first and most important thing to consider is the timer associated with the root. There is a timer that is should act as a limiter. It is being looked at now, before any other alternative.
I am the last person to gripe about LORE here but I swear i missed the Episode that had TK, Swordsman, or Fencers running around. Today, I am reading the paper and theres Conflict going on everywhere. What I am not seeing is a large story article on the long term effects of a Sword being drawn. I see guns, I see guns, and I see guns.
Really, if you want SWORDS, stick to PvE and leave it the way it is. If you want STAR WARS stick with your BLASTER PISTOL, BLASTER RIFLE, and CARBINE.
if the above is not good enough start grinding a Jedi and hurry up. That is the MELEE PROFESSION shown to me in movies.
Jaster_M wrote:
. How bout the whole force cloak issue also?
Got another one for you : How about removing Avoid Incap for PvP ?. Nice, finally killing off the Jedi's HAM completely, only to see him just walk away, taking no additional damage.
HAM gone = you lose. Not: HAM gone = bye, im leaving.
Why do Jedi whine about anything that might be touching them, when they themselves areso insanely overpowerd (and if power is not enough, they got the whole arsenal of escape skills : FR / Avoid Incap / Cloak etc etc...) . And dont gimme that "I should be powerfull crap" cause you already are.
Best thing for SWG: Remove all whiney Jedi and let Jedi be NPC's only. No more stupid Alpha class in this game please...
Message Edited by Efix_Lordana on 05-26-2005 02:20 PM
Message Edited by Efix_Lordana on 05-26-2005 02:23 PM
Your first answer here was : "Now in a multi-player PvP situation, it is entirely possible for four pistoleers to "chain-root" a single opponent in combat, but hopefully that person brought along friends"
Argument for a change : a jedi versus 5 bh that have pistoleer skills can be perma rooted
My argument : right now, it's a real pain for only 2 bh to take the same mission and coordinate action to attack a jedi together
The more BH that wants to go against a jedi, the more time you need for all BH to be ready. And the time needed is exponential for each BH in the group.
BTW, when a BH takes a mission, he never knows how much BH are already on the mission.
A jedi has an alt character that may be Bounty hunter (all jedis i know have a BH alt) and most of them take mission on themselves -> 1 less possible BH on the head.
Another argument : BH have to use high range weapons in order to be out of range from jedis. So maybe only pistoleer 0003 dabblers.... Using carabins or rifles.
So don't please don't nerf guys that went pistoleer because jedis are perma rooted on the exceptionnal case of 5 BH versus them at the same time...
And please go and fix what is NOT working.... Like for example scouting exp needed to train master ranger box..... Missions that give no rewards where they should... The ranger rescue skill that doesn't do anything. The commando attacks that is not working as intended. The smuggler revamp promissed almost 2 years ago. The SL revamp so that all bonus applies correctly and appears in char sheet...
Ooooo... and a last thing.... A root recovery at healer XXX4.... Yeah.... because, let me guess... I guess you are Mls, Mdefender, Healer 4004... the FOTM... How strange...
Message Edited by Eulbobo on 05-26-2005 04:15 AM
Thunderheart wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Did these discussions include giving ranged professions another tactical advantage instead of the root in case something like that gets implemented? Because, well, that's pretty much the only thing making melee and ranged equal (balanced) but still different (meant for a different use and to be played with different tactics) right now. Taking it away and not replacing it with something else would greatly disturb the whole melee/ranged playstyle difference vision and once again lead to a completely melee-centric game.
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Yes, looking at as many tactical situations as possible is always the goal (but players will always find new and interesting ways to use their character's abilities).
Going forward, the first and most important thing to consider is the timer associated with the root.
Wouldn't the simplest thing be to associate the timer with the target and not the targeter? That way you couldn't perma root anything, and you could even reduce the stopping shot timer to allow pistoleers to really fufil the crowd control role they are meant to; instead of perma rooting one mob/player pistoleers could temporarily root a handful of targets. That way everyone wins, no perma rooting, and groups become less pistoleer-centric as one pistoleer should be enough to help create breathing room when a score of mobs attack, or more resposively act to limit kiteing when melee players need to go after a new target..
There is a timer that is should act as a limiter. It is being looked at now, before any other alternative.
Glad to hear it, right now the timer just seems to be applied at the wrong end and in doing so not only does it leave the door open for an unintended permaroot it also limits the pistoleer prof to a single target control rather than a crowd control role.
Gift.
EEMAN wrote:
None of the pistoleer specials squeeze nicely into a single tree for ease of dabbling I see no reason why it should be in either 4xxx or xxx4 healer. Having something as powerful as root breaking should come at a cost, either make it a x4xx or master healer skill. The xxx4 tree is already overcrowded with very useful stuff.
That's exactly what i wanted to say.
IF, and only if dev decide to make a root recovery, it should be at master lvl and usable on self only.
But it would be a bad idea to make a root recovery.
Auraveda wrote:
Bastilaa wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
frightwig wrote:
Shouldn't there be a timer on this to prevent repeat/chain attempts?
Thunderheart wrote:
Now in a multi-player PvP situation, it is entirely possible for four pistoleers to "chain-root" a single opponent in combat, but hopefully that person brought along friends
This is the case for knockdown (a timer), and that's a state that can at least be recovered from.
Once rooted, we should be immune from +root+ a for a certain amount of time.
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Discussions are not a enough! you have Jedi dieing taking xp loss because of crap unbalanced programming
FYI: I'm full templated so xp loss means jack to me - Unlike you idiots I care about the other players here
If the padawan is careful and secretive, as they should be, then they won't end up on the terminals, and they won't have 5 mean old bounty hunters firing their mean old guns with their mean old root and snare shotsat them.
If the padawan is careless or reckless and reveals their powers in front of another, then they will pay for it by getting a bounty on their head.That's how the system works, this is not new. Every other combat profession that can possibly be paired with Bounty Hunter should not be nerfed becausesome Padawansdon't want to accept that there areconsequencesfor letting others see their powers.
Yes and in fact I ahave stayed off the boards. THe problem has been that the post-cu grinding world is a different story. It will take 2 years to template a jedi.
That is why so many paddy's are grouping and getting vis but finding out its a double edged sword. Desparate for xp.
When at MLS solo grinding yields you 50k an hour (I am mls 4000 heal and thats what I can get solo) and we have 15.3 mil xp per tree to get as opposed to 5.2 for an elite. Now consider Jedi get 1/5 the xp an elite does that is 15 times the grind. We are now 1.5 times stronger than a full elite temilate..so 15 times the grind for 1.5 and add to the fact that they removed the pve damage bonus. All this shows that soething needs to be done about the grinding area.
Giftmacher wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Did these discussions include giving ranged professions another tactical advantage instead of the root in case something like that gets implemented? Because, well, that's pretty much the only thing making melee and ranged equal (balanced) but still different (meant for a different use and to be played with different tactics) right now. Taking it away and not replacing it with something else would greatly disturb the whole melee/ranged playstyle difference vision and once again lead to a completely melee-centric game.
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Yes, looking at as many tactical situations as possible is always the goal (but players will always find new and interesting ways to use their character's abilities).
Going forward, the first and most important thing to consider is the timer associated with the root.
Wouldn't the simplest thing be to associate the timer with the target and not the targeter? That way you couldn't perma root anything, and you could even reduce the stopping shot timer to allow pistoleers to really fufil the crowd control role they are meant to; instead of perma rooting one mob/player pistoleers could temporarily root a handful of targets. That way everyone wins, no perma rooting, and groups become less pistoleer-centric as one pistoleer should be enough to help create breathing room when a score of mobs attack, or more resposively act to limit kiteing when melee players need to go after a new target..
There is a timer that is should act as a limiter. It is being looked at now, before any other alternative.
Glad to hear it, right now the timer just seems to be applied at the wrong end and in doing so not only does it leave the door open for an unintended permaroot it also limits the pistoleer prof to a single target control rather than a crowd control role.
Gift.
As I understand it, the target is what the timer is associated with (and also being looked at to make sure the duration is correct).
Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
TH, the way I see it is you are pondering nerfing a useful skill because of it's use and abuse in one aspect of the game...Jedi v Bounty Hunter. Do you think that in group PvP a player who was rooted will be left to die by their group mates? Personally, I don't think so. I wouldn't to one of my group mates for sure.
I am not a pistoleer because I hated it. I am not a Bounty Hunter any longer either, but I do have a Padawan and STILL do not want to see this skill, stopping shot, nerfed to useless just because there is no counter for it. Wouldn't a better solution just be an action draining move that counters the root and leaves you with default attacks until you regen? If you start focusing on this one aspect of SWG, Jedi v BH, then that is what you whittle the game down to, Jedi v BH.
A root counter for melee/Jedi professions is a far better solution than focusing on the PvP players and what they break. It may be a bit hard to code, it may not be, but the fact that it is better in the long run to wait for a solution like this than to add yet another in a long list of band-aid repairs which do more harm than good. I for one would much rather see the counter than a move which breaks on damage.
You would ignore the entire PvE base of SWG nerfing this. There are already too many issues with damage multipliers and such as it is. If the players do not have at least a small advantage on the environment, you will see more departures, more closed accounts and more bad press.
Thunderheart wrote:
Folks, please lets discuss the issues and not attack each other.
Thank you.
Then how about we just attack you Kurt?
After you specifically stated that Combat [Balance] Upgrade (read your old messages, we’ll wait for you) will not be released based on the calendar but when it is complete, you and your team forced a broken system on your players without proper testing.
Are you going to say that CU was not forced out? If you are, then please offer us the same drugs you're taking! Or, provide us the same Rose Colored Glasses!
There were pages upon pages of bug reports, every profession (except Jedi) was able to test their abilities on the Test Servers, and even those few Jedi that had characters on the “clone” servers (Servers that were direct copies of LIVE servers in order for existing players to test their with their existing characters) reported massive problems that were never addressed, and are still problems.
Now your team is wasting valuable time on multi-passenger vehicles?
Fix the bugs first, add fluff and garbage later!
At least we know now why it was renamed “Combat Upgrade” because there is little “Balance” in this new system (unless you’re a hard-core PvPer! And, going back on topic, even THAT is not balanced!).