Game Guides Archive
Thread: Tuesday Tips May 24th Stopping Shot
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Don't do it! The pistoleer stopping shot is NOT supposed to break on damage. Concussion shot IS and needs to be fixed. How else are BH/Pistoleer supposed to fight a jedi who has cloak or FR2/3 ?????!?!??!
If stopping shot changes to getting broke on damage you have just nerfed my entire template and made all the skill points I've sunk into pistoleer useless.
johnautry613 wrote:
Unless they are a jedi and another friend is not allowed to attack, but five bounty hunters is just fine ....You see the problem?
When was the last time you saw a group of 5 Bounty Hunters working as a team in the same group attack a Jedi at the same time? NEVER. I've been a BH for quite sometime, and I have never seen this happen. Do you have any idea how hard is it to get a group together to take on 1 Jedi at the same time? We've managed a group of 3 1 time to fight a master and that is the largest group ever. Mostly it will be 1 on 1 or 2 on 1, very rarely 3 on 1. I know, as we have tried so many times to get a large group together to fight Jedi masters only to give up.
JustAClown wrote:
Ive had several groups of 2, one group of 3 and one group of 4 come afterme since the CU respec. BH grouping is very very common.
When was the last time you saw a group of 5 Bounty Hunters working as a team in the same group attack a Jedi at the same time? NEVER. I've been a BH for quite sometime, and I have never seen this happen. Do you have any idea how hard is it to get a group together to take on 1 Jedi at the same time? We've managed a group of 3 1 time to fight a master and that is the largest group ever. Mostly it will be 1 on 1 or 2 on 1, very rarely 3 on 1. I know, as we have tried so many times to get a large group together to fight Jedi masters only to give up.
How about they bring master level jedi's combat abilities in line with a full combat non-jedi template and then only allow one bounty to be taken at a time.
Oh wait, that would take away the "I win" button so many think they deserve after "grinding" for so long.
JustAClown wrote:
Concussion shot sahould not break as you are still allowed to attack. Base damage for a smuggler is far below any other "combat" profession because of the lack of speed.
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Don't do it! The pistoleer stopping shot is NOT supposed to break on damage. Concussion shot IS and needs to be fixed. How else are BH/Pistoleer supposed to fight a jedi who has cloak or FR2/3 ?????!?!??!
If stopping shot changes to getting broke on damage you have just nerfed my entire template and made all the skill points I've sunk into pistoleer useless.
QFE
Auraveda wrote:
Bastilaa wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
frightwig wrote:
Shouldn't there be a timer on this to prevent repeat/chain attempts?
Thunderheart wrote:
Now in a multi-player PvP situation, it is entirely possible for four pistoleers to "chain-root" a single opponent in combat, but hopefully that person brought along friends
This is the case for knockdown (a timer), and that's a state that can at least be recovered from.
Once rooted, we should be immune from +root+ a for a certain amount of time.
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Discussions are not a enough! you have Jedi dieing taking xp loss because of crap unbalanced programming
FYI: I'm full templated so xp loss means jack to me - Unlike you idiots I care about the other players here
If the padawan is careful and secretive, as they should be, then they won't end up on the terminals, and they won't have 5 mean old bounty hunters firing their mean old guns with their mean old root and snare shotsat them.
If the padawan is careless or reckless and reveals their powers in front of another, then they will pay for it by getting a bounty on their head.That's how the system works, this is not new. Every other combat profession that can possibly be paired with Bounty Hunter should not be nerfed becausesome Padawansdon't want to accept that there areconsequencesfor letting others see their powers.
Meplorium wrote:
Root is the new dizzy/knockdown. My advice is to give melee exclusively a root recovery skill much like knockdown recovery. Also add root recovery as a state heal in jedi healer xxx4.
Thunderheart wrote:
Yes, looking at as many tactical situations as possible is always the goal (but players will always find new and interesting ways to use their character's abilities).Going forward, the first and most important thing to consider is the timer associated with the root. There is a timer that is should act as a limiter. It is being looked at now, before any other alternative.
OMG if you think root is the same as dizzy/KD where you cannot attack back your tactics need serious help. The only thing you cannot do while rooted is walk. Maybe you should focus this attack on the CM's paralyze or even worse jedi stasis. Now THAT prevents you from doing _anything_ and stasis can be used from 32m. Paralyze atleast requires you to be within 5m. If you want to compare it to a previous tactic where you could do nothing then those should be your focus. Root recovery to all melee would make it as pointless as the new KD where you just get right back up. Incase you dont know ranged people move much slower than melee because of weapon hinderances as a 'balance' but its puposefully overdone in order to require us to root you for 20sec with a 40 sec cooldown. The result is we hit you 20 seconds and then you pound us for 20 sec etc. Its only out of balance when it is done in a chain and that only happens w/ bh/jedi as every other multi player pvp event is many vs many which prevents this from working beyond a 1 on 1 encounter within the many vs many pvp. If you scream for it to go, then they have to replace it with another melee/ranged balance and you may like that one even less (like reversing the hinderances so we get to perma-kite). Your best option is to ask for the cooldown timer to be removed and in its place put a timer on the victim so that they cant use it on them for 30sec. This gives the root user the ability to crowd control with it (use it on more than one player w/o that crazy cooldown) and prevents you from being victim to the chain-root problem.
I swear...if you read the description of concussion shot you can clearly see that the description of concussion shot refers to it being an ability similar to paralyze...stopping the target from moving, attacking or healing for the duration of the effect...or until someone or something attacks the target. If you are going to keep throwing out the fact you read somewhere that roots are supposed to break when hit...read the whole description. Currently yes concussion shot acts like a root in game...but it is supposed to be a mez/daze ability that should work exactly like paralyze from combat medic. The devs have a long history of messing up the descriptions of smuggler abilities and because of this not many of the smuggler abilities actually work as they are described. Case in point read the description of reckless shot...only the original version states that it puts the smuggler in a vulnerable position but it gives a defensive penalty to the attacker. Then in the improved and advanced versions the target is supposed to get an increased defensive penalty. But in implementation only the smuggler gets a defensive penalty. Panic shot is supposed to delay the target for a short period of time. This should be implemented similarly to either disarming shot or advanced startleshot. But instead it is a attack speed debuff for a measly -10 and -15 when improved. That by the way has no effect on players or npcs/creatures whatsoever.
So please if you decide to start running off at the mouth get your facts straight. Ask for fixes according to how the special abilities are supposed to act by their descriptions...not asking for nerfs based on what combinations of profession abilities can do. I'm certain if we all did that every profession could be nerfed to oblivion including jedi and nobody would have fun.
Thunderheart wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Did these discussions include giving ranged professions another tactical advantage instead of the root in case something like that gets implemented? Because, well, that's pretty much the only thing making melee and ranged equal (balanced) but still different (meant for a different use and to be played with different tactics) right now. Taking it away and not replacing it with something else would greatly disturb the whole melee/ranged playstyle difference vision and once again lead to a completely melee-centric game.
Thunderheart wrote:
There have been discussions about giving the root a chance to break on damage, but nothing definitive yet.
Yes, looking at as many tactical situations as possible is always the goal (but players will always find new and interesting ways to use their character's abilities).Going forward, the first and most important thing to consider is the timer associated with the root. There is a timer that is should act as a limiter. It is being looked at now, before any other alternative.
These types of disscusions were what started the downfall of the old system not long after the initial launch of the game. This time instead of Knock down/Dizzy, it's root. A profession with working specials(BH) were the target of every non-BH because they were effective most of the time. In general ranged was better than melee, and BH was the best of the ranged.
Rather than improving and fixing the non-BH ranged proffs like Pistoleer and especially Carbineer they nerfed BH. In a pathetic attempt to balance melee vs range they vastly improved melee professions beyond ranged combat professions, while leaving most of the ranged combat proffs broken and BH nerfed to nothing. We had to live with that for more than a year. In a Star Wars game people with sticks, hammers, and swords were the high end fighting classes while ranged took a back seat(not Star Wars).
It all originated with a few people crying nerf on a couple of specials that Bounty Hunters used. If the devs go back down that road and don't learn from the history of what went wrong with this game in the past we will all be damned to repeat it......
Message Edited by iakoi on 05-25-2005 11:37 PM
Personally I liked this and everyone involved was having a great time. It was a continual 50+ person battle that lasted for days.
As for the jedi debate, they need to work on visibility so they can group and play with friends with out getting themselves on the terms. Because one good thing about root is it fixed all the problems with running into safe houses and LD'ing, running into water and LD'ing. If your a jedi and want root nerfed you should be offering up ideas on how to nerf those tactics as well because according to original deal you were supposed to fear getting on the terminals. Well now you do but you’re in an unfair situation of being unable to avoid terminals and play the game.
That's what really needs to be fixed.
Edit:
Note about the thread right above this:
It’s not that the devs went down the nerfing road that caused the problems. It’s that once they finally decide something needs to be nerfed they usually don’t balance it, they nuke it out of extinction. In unreal 2 the rocket launcher was too powerful initially, every one was calling for nerf range, nerf damage, nerf reload time. What the devs did was reduce the ammo capacity and that brought it into balance while keeping it useful. But quickly realizing imbalances and deftly coming up with good solutions like the one above isn’t something I’ve seen in this game.
It’s massive imbalances ignored for a long time followed by equally massive nerfs.
Message Edited by ObiQuixote on 05-25-2005 10:05 PM
Well...I can tell you a little story of the 4 bounty hunters who decided to try and jump me in Theed.
After getting around the stopping shot, the concussion shot and every other state shot they put on me, I got them into a NPC building. Made them come after me and then systematically killed all 4 of them. It's not the skills, it's the tactics and using your surroundings to get away from the 'chain-rooter' clones that like to run around and bust on half-templated Padawans. It makes my day to watch them scream when their well-laid plan of playing "Root-The-Jedi" goes wrong and they all end up in the cloner.