Game Guides Archive
Thread: It is possible to experience the greatest saga ever told REALLY!
Alysie wrote:
First of all, I would just like to say this is a wonderful post.
Second, I would like to point out that I am a new player. I have only been playing for a little over a month now and have become quite addicted to the game. I am normally a FPS player......this is my first time playing a MMORPG and I have been having a wonderful time with it. The one thing I have noticed though, after reading these forums, is the amount of complaining that goes on around here and the bashing that is done to the devs. Personally I think that is pathetic. I give the devs enormous credit for creating such an incredible game. Granted, there are bugs still, as I'm sure they are aware, but does bashing them really solve anything?? Do you people who are complaining really know what kind of time and effort is involved in creating a game of this magnitude?? A lot of people in here sound like selfish, spoiled brats. It is quite sad really.
OK, for only having played for one month, I can forgive your ignorance. However, in the same breath, I feel you need to just keep your mouth shut. Sure, there are people who come on these boards just to piss and moan, no doubt about that. However, many of us have been playing since day 1, or even beta. WE have seen the ups and downs, and the consistent lack of developer communication, the many game breaking bugs, the bugs that continually resurface or have never been fixed, the many promises for changes and revamps that never come. These are ALL valid complaints, and as such we DESERVE to be irrate and angry about them. We've been told that the combat revamp and GCW revamp were coming since late last year (Nov or Dec 2003). Now, we've been told that we can expect this as late as Mar of 2005, nearly TWO YEARS after the release of this game.
Play this game a few months more, and even YOU will be on these boards acting like a "selfish, spoiled brat". What's sad is that people like you come on here and talk out of your @$$, without really knowing what it is you're talking about.
For all you noobs (to the game, not necessarily these boards)in general: Don't come on here and complain about all the complaining that's done. Unless you've been here for some time, you really can't say sh1t about the rest of us who have been here for the long haul.
Mox ShehalisThe problem is players pretty much have to plan everything themselves, where the battle will take place who will come you know. Now there is no problem with that, it's just the only way to fight any kind of battle in game, most of the time. The game needs fixin there's no doubt about that. But it is also up to the players to help the game too, instead of acting like everything should be done for them. There's is also the problem with players ignoring the content in the game. All people think about is gaining experience and badges few people actually do quests unless they get some rare special item. You'll see people go to dungeons not for adventure but to grind xp and get special loot. People get way to absorbed with this. However a lot of people end up doing this though is because a lot of the quests and other stuff in the game are bugged to the point to where players can't complete it anymore.
This game has potential, but it is up to us, and the Devs to make it so.
HashiEno wrote:
ive been playing for a year and a month now, and i agree with most everything alysie wrote. i have also started threads about how the forum attitude can be a considerable negative in the swg experience. ive been through everything that the whiners have been through, yet i somehow manage to avoid incessant whining and threats of quitting the game unless the devs do what i want them to immediately.
so basically, i have been here for a lot more than afew months, and i somehow avoid acting like a "selfish, spoiled brat". sure ive been upset a time or two at the dev team, and ive contributed to petition threads, etc... but there is a crucial difference between participating in the forums and acting like a disappointed child.
valid or not, no complaint entitles one to the sorts of bullying attitudes that get thrown toward the dev team on a regular basis. its just not constructive.
this thread, on the other hand, has been mostly very constructive. yet someone still came through and one-starred every post (of course without stating why). oh, and someone told another player to keep their mouth shut. constructive indeed.
You're right that nothing justifies the bullying attitudes that SOME people take. However, Alysie came off like (s)he was saying that ANYONE who has complaints about this game is acting like a spoiled, selfish brat. If that's not the case, then I apologize. However, if that's what that person meant, then I take offense at that, and have every right to. I don't make any posts that say "teh devs suXors" or crap like that. I try to make sure that my posts are either relevant, or just there to provide some laughs (hopefully), or just stimulate discussions. It does nothing to castrate the devs over every little thing for no reason at all. We all post in the hopes the devs will finally get it through their seeming thick heads and fix this game and make it what we ALL know it can be. So, to that end, I have EVERY right to complain about things that are broken and are not working right. Because I (or anyone else, for that matter) voice that, it doesn't mean that we're acting like spoiled, selfish brats.
And SWG is not just ANY MMORPG, it's based on STAR WARS, and as such, people are going to be MUCH MORE vocal about the things that are going wrong, and they will voice their opinions and suggestions (no matter how wrong headed they may be). I paid for a year of this game, and when my renewal date came up, I paid for another year in advance, because I have fun, despite the problems. Yet, you cannot say that professions are working properly, that combat is balanced, or even that there is an actual GCW! So, to have some noob come on here and chastise the rest of us, I'm sorry, but I don't feel they have the right to do so. And EVERY noob who starts off singing the praises of this game eventually starts to raise hell about the problems this game suffers from. So I'm simply saying that a noob needs to play this game for at LEAST six months, before coming on here and calling names. If in six months, you don't find a single problem with this game, then God Bless you, and I won't even bother to dispute it.
And for the record, I'm not the one that one starred any of these posts. I've only one starred two posts, and it was because they were spewing venomous hate about someone in game, which I felt was unappropriate for the forums.
AngryHoopJumper wrote:
GotEgg wrote:This is a truly excellent post! 5 stars for you.Roleplaying even a little bit can increase immersion immensely. If you can get yourself into the mindset of 'being inside' your character, it changes the whole dynamic of the game. All of a sudden you really want to read all the information that NPCs give out, you want to see the places you visit, not just get the badge and run, you want to experience the world you live in.I urge any player that hasn't ever really tried the roleplay aspect of this game to step up to it - You may find that it becomes a whole new game for you.
xxxxxx: can u giv me credits?
Impyyy: No, Citizen, but I can direct you to where you can earn them. Try the Emperor's Retreat on Naboo. Or if you're feeling like a traitor, the Rebel Base on Corellia."
xxxxxx: y r u talking so proper?
Impyyy: The Empire demands much of its Citizens.
xxxxxx: how mane credits did u tip?
Impyyy: ...but it does not believe in charity.
xxxxxx: u sound like ur brainwashed u know that dont u?
Impyyy: /addignore, /sigh
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!111111111ONE!!1!1!1
Thats exactly what will happen if you realy try to R/P with some people...
This is what I've found myself doing. I've done all the content I can find, completed my template, every dungeon, explored everything, become a millionaire, have some of the best equipment on the server. So now what? My Quest Guide, and Badge Guide helped me stave off boredom, but, there's precious little now.
I've actually found myself writing stories. I have a few jumbled ones laying about, just detailing some of my character's more memorable experiences. An awkward encounter in the Warren, an underworld dealing in the Coronet Commercial Starport, etcetera. I've been enjoying it. It's odd, having fun in this game.
Rishathra wrote:
This is a very well written post, and I agree with it for the most part in its ideal. However, the reality is a bit different. Old forum goers will remember Khaldun and his Seven Deadly Sins, which are quite frankly a must read for anyone who peruses these boards with any frequency. He also wrote a great essay - The Mystery of SWG - from which I will quote from as a counterpoint to your argument, Baelin. Please do not take this as a flame. Your post is a wonderful one, I just feel that I need to play a little Devil's Advocate on this one.
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/tburke1/swgmystery.html
One thing I’ve learned about Koster’s work through playing SWG is that some of the problems he is inclined to attribute to player behavior and player sociology, or to the effects of systemic complexity or emergent dynamics, are also attributable to his particular design fixations. His lack of interest in content and in narrative in general, and in the mythos or setting of a game in specific, are probably one of the reasons why SWG so thoroughly fails to invoke Star Wars. Ever since his work on UO, Koster’s prevailing assumption has been that players make content, not designers, which is only half true in general. Players make content but they make it persistent in a MMOG world only with the help of tools provided by developers—tools that SWG does not provide in sufficient profusion and flexibility. Moreover, in this specific MMOG, this may have been exactly the opposite of the working philosophy required, precisely because the appeal of SWG lay in part on its relationship to an established fictional universe. It’s fine to say that players have to make their own content in a game that is more or less a generic mish-mash of sword-and-sorcery cliches like Ultima Online or Everquest are, but Star Wars is another matter: at least some of your player base comes to you quite legitimately with a very specific mental model of the narratives and experiences they would like to have within that gameworld.
You offered a detailed reply, so I'll offer a detailed (somewhat) response. I'll be honest in that I am not familiar with the writings you cited. I'll have to check that out. Beforehand, I'll reply to you. It sounds as if Koster is an extremist with the concept of role playing. He probably tips on the scales far over to the D&D mind set, versus the equally extreme complete FPS type of thinking.
I'm not suggesting that players have no motivating stimuli. While I didn't go into high detail, I stated that the game does need to offer missions, quests, and theme parks that are intertwined with Star Wars lore to "ignite" aspects of role playing. I also stated the there needs to be elements "plausible story evolution" which is where events such as "The Cries of Alderaan" come into play (which I'll admit, SOE has been negligent in keeping up on). I completely agree that it can't be "only" left up to players, but I do believe that at least 75% of the burden is with the players.
Role playing does not need to involve a specific mission. For example, in an old post I mentioned a group of 5 players that were roleplaying. They were in a personal camp northwest from Mos Espa. They were talking among themselves about the perils of life on Tattooine. No sooner did this discussion begin, than a group of Tuskens appeared near the camp. Before this group could decide a course of action, the Tuskens attacked. The group fought off the Tuskens and, though battered and bruised, emerged victorious. They then elected to take down the camp and move on to avoid any possible confrontations from more Tuskens.Now.. ..to the outside observer, this group got jumped, killed a spawn, then moved to avoid the respawn. To this group, however, they experienced an adventure in a world filled with danger and excitement. Who has it right and who is fooling themselves? I'll leave that for you to decide.
As stated, SOE does need to keep elements such as the Cries of Alderaan event in the game. These monthly events are catalysts that promote much needed role playing. However, again, it still rests with the players to do more than just follow steps A, B, and C to complete a set of tasks. They must turn that effort into an adventure with the power of creative thinking.
Important to note is that your response listed the game type as MMOG, and not MMORPG. The RP (role playing) aspect was removed. This "is" a RP game, not just an online game.
Many times the roleplayers have suggested the means to encourage roleplaying and suggested tools to allow people to roleplay (such as player created data disks) but the devs do not listen nor care for that sorta thing...probably because it requires effort on thier part.
When D&Ding the GM presents to you the conflict and storyline and helps encourage the PC's to interact with an enviroment that interacts with them.
This is completely different because things are geared more to the powergaming, loot-whores who find dupes and work arounds and ways to make things easier.
The roleplayers? We are left with relying on our imagination to immerse ourselves because the devs provide little incentive or means to roleplay...
SharkBoy007 wrote:
Alysie wrote:
First of all, I would just like to say this is a wonderful post.
Second, I would like to point out that I am a new player. I have only been playing for a little over a month now and have become quite addicted to the game. I am normally a FPS player......this is my first time playing a MMORPG and I have been having a wonderful time with it. The one thing I have noticed though, after reading these forums, is the amount of complaining that goes on around here and the bashing that is done to the devs. Personally I think that is pathetic. I give the devs enormous credit for creating such an incredible game. Granted, there are bugs still, as I'm sure they are aware, but does bashing them really solve anything?? Do you people who are complaining really know what kind of time and effort is involved in creating a game of this magnitude?? A lot of people in here sound like selfish, spoiled brats. It is quite sad really.
OK, for only having played for one month, I can forgive your ignorance. However, in the same breath, I feel you need to just keep your mouth shut. Sure, there are people who come on these boards just to piss and moan, no doubt about that. However, many of us have been playing since day 1, or even beta. WE have seen the ups and downs, and the consistent lack of developer communication, the many game breaking bugs, the bugs that continually resurface or have never been fixed, the many promises for changes and revamps that never come. These are ALL valid complaints, and as such we DESERVE to be irrate and angry about them. We've been told that the combat revamp and GCW revamp were coming since late last year (Nov or Dec 2003). Now, we've been told that we can expect this as late as Mar of 2005, nearly TWO YEARS after the release of this game.
Play this game a few months more, and even YOU will be on these boards acting like a "selfish, spoiled brat". What's sad is that people like you come on here and talk out of your @$$, without really knowing what it is you're talking about.
For all you noobs (to the game, not necessarily these boards)in general: Don't come on here and complain about all the complaining that's done. Unless you've been here for some time, you really can't say sh1t about the rest of us who have been here for the long haul.
ive been playing for a year and a month now, and i agree with most everything alysie wrote. i have also started threads about how the forum attitude can be a considerable negative in the swg experience. ive been through everything that the whiners have been through, yet i somehow manage to avoid incessant whining and threats of quitting the game unless the devs do what i want them to immediately.
so basically, i have been here for a lot more than afew months, and i somehow avoid acting like a "selfish, spoiled brat". sure ive been upset a time or two at the dev team, and ive contributed to petition threads, etc... but there is a crucial difference between participating in the forums and acting like a disappointed child.
valid or not, no complaint entitles one to the sorts of bullying attitudes that get thrown toward the dev team on a regular basis. its just not constructive.
this thread, on the other hand, has been mostly very constructive. yet someone still came through and one-starred every post (of course without stating why). oh, and someone told another player to keep their mouth shut. constructive indeed.