Game Guides Archive
Thread: It is possible to experience the greatest saga ever told REALLY!
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Baelin_Radiant
Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:27 am
#1
Many of the players that came to SWG did so because they are fans of the movies or the fictional history of Star Wars. When logging in for the first time,players try to adjust to the learning curve and get their bearings. Over time, every player adjusts to the game dynamics and begins evolving through the game. Whether building up skills, performing NPC missions, quests, and theme parks, or just hanging around with friends, the game serves as a backdrop for our activities. Of the many areas existing in this game is the chance to role play. However, I wonder if people really know how to do that any more.
A familiarphrase associated with SWG is, "Experience the greatest saga ever told-Yours." People view that and may see that as meaning that playing this game is going to instantly throw them into the Millennium Falcon and have them rubbing elbows with Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewy. Truth is, that phrase is true, but it requires more effort on the players than is probably understood. Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided is a tremendously robust stage. It gives players familiar landscapes and locations from the movies. It offers apparel, armor, weapons, mounts, vehicles, and many familiar elements from the movies. It offers quests that are intertwined with the history of Star Wars. However, the game is different from the movie in many ways.
A movie requires no effort from the viewer other than to pay attention. The movie goer only has to watch the screen and hopefully get immersed into the story and develop a desire to see the story develop. A movie tells a story; nothing more. A game allows players to "exist" within a story, which can be far more rewarding. With this potential for added reward comes the requirement for effort on the part of the player. The player can't just sit there and expect something to develop by itself. They have to take action. They have to seek out opportunity. They.. ..have to make the story progress.
That's where role playing comes into place. Many players don't know how to role play. They exist between the movie goer mind set and the game player mode of thinking. They are willing to put effort into playing their character, but expect the game to continuously feed themplots and twists from a story. While it is important for a game to offer quests and plausible story evolution, there is much more responsibility being put on the players than I think they realize.
For example, two people can sit at a kitchen table and role play. They could weave a story and carry it through countless turns and twists without the need for any external stimulus. They could evolve the story into unimaginable depths of complexity with just the power of creative thinking and motivation driving it forward. This is role playing. Now.. ..take these two people and place them into a game such as SWG. Now they have pixilated personas. They have props and tools. They have locations and backdrops. The story gains an order of magnitude byadding graphical and audio representation, thus providing genuine visual and aural stimuli. However, the bulk of the role playing is still dependant on the players. The game will only provide so much. The rest isup tothe players.
The players, by playing SWG, now have familiar environments and landscapes. They can dress and equip themselves with relevant props and tools. They can undertake quests and activities which bolster the environment further. However, the game will only provide so much. As this point, the players need to provide the story. They need to remember the purpose behind playing the game. SWG is a MMORPG which stands for Massive Multi-player Online Role Playing Game. It is not a MMOM (Massive Multi-player Online Movie). The game is clearly defined as belonging to the "role playing" genre. When you elect to play it, you elect to role play. In order to role play, you need to understand that the task of providing the personal story elements and individual episodes of personal excitement depend on your willingness to pretend and be creative.
I read many posts from players that claim they are bored. For them, the game is not feeding them enjoyment. I understand what these players are saying. SWG is a game, first and foremost. A game is suppose to be fun. However, let's really look at what a game is suppose to provide. What about chess, checkers, or backgammon? These are games, but they don't actually "do" anything, do they? What makes them fun is the players that make the moves and pose the challenges. As games become more involved, such as Monopoly, Life, and Risk, then the game creates a wider berth for variation and immersion. Take it further into the world of the MMORPG, and the game becomes incredibly diverse and complex. However, the main premise still holds true that the bulk of effort is "still" on the players.
Many people play solitaire, but that can get boring. Many game players will seek out the greatest opportunity for rewarding individual and solitary game play and end up playing first person shooters (FPS). Thepurpose of a first person shooter is to take the place of an opponent. Here, the player is often in a closed environment. The path forward is often fixed and rigid. Even if a non-linear option is available, it usually still has many limitations which ultimately lead to an established outcome. The player is placed in a "rats maze" and expected to use skills and reasoning to find the cheese. A first person shooter has "nothing" in common with a MMORPG other than it is a game. That is where many players of SWG get confused.
SWG affords players a deep and lavish playing field. Instead of sitting at a kitchen table and having to imagine an environment, this game actually drops you in the middle of one. Where you go from there, and whether that journey is full of wonder and excitement or just a walk in the park is up to you, the player. Don't expect the game to be like solitaire. It may afford the ability to play solo, but it is still two things that must never be forgotten. First, it is a MMO which means that playingwith othersis part of its core function. Second, it is a RPG which means that everyone playing must be willing to be the creator and follower of their own story. The ability for each player to fuse and intermingle their story with others is challenging, but it is possible if you try. This "really" can be the greatest saga ever told if players are just willing to write it. Instead, many players are complaining that the story isn't writing itself. That's not how it works.
Edit: ..spelling corrections...
Message Edited by Baelin_Radiant on 08-30-2004 12:44 PM
GotEgg
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:03 am
#3
This is a truly excellent post! 5 stars for you.
Roleplaying even a little bit can increase immersion immensely. If you can get yourself into the mindset of 'being inside' your character, it changes the whole dynamic of the game. All of a sudden you really want to read all the information that NPCs give out, you want to see the places you visit, not just get the badge and run, you want to experience the world you live in.
I urge any player that hasn't ever really tried the roleplay aspect of this game to step up to it - You may find that it becomes a whole new game for you.
Rishathra
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:06 am
#4
This is a very well written post, and I agree with it for the most part in its ideal. However, the reality is a bit different. Old forum goers will remember Khaldun and his Seven Deadly Sins, which are quite frankly a must read for anyone who peruses these boards with any frequency. He also wrote a great essay - The Mystery of SWG - from which I will quote from as a counterpoint to your argument, Baelin. Please do not take this as a flame. Your post is a wonderful one, I just feel that I need to play a little Devil's Advocate on this one.
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/tburke1/swgmystery.html
One thing I’ve learned about Koster’s work through playing SWG is that some of the problems he is inclined to attribute to player behavior and player sociology, or to the effects of systemic complexity or emergent dynamics, are also attributable to his particular design fixations. His lack of interest in content and in narrative in general, and in the mythos or setting of a game in specific, are probably one of the reasons why SWG so thoroughly fails to invoke Star Wars. Ever since his work on UO, Koster’s prevailing assumption has been that players make content, not designers, which is only half true in general. Players make content but they make it persistent in a MMOG world only with the help of tools provided by developers—tools that SWG does not provide in sufficient profusion and flexibility. Moreover, in this specific MMOG, this may have been exactly the opposite of the working philosophy required, precisely because the appeal of SWG lay in part on its relationship to an established fictional universe. It’s fine to say that players have to make their own content in a game that is more or less a generic mish-mash of sword-and-sorcery cliches like Ultima Online or Everquest are, but Star Wars is another matter: at least some of your player base comes to you quite legitimately with a very specific mental model of the narratives and experiences they would like to have within that gameworld.
RogueKairi
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:09 am
#5
Did you know you typed in 1,152 words? Im not reading 1,152 words. I'll just feel the "essence" of your post and /applaud you for the effort.
Btw, I did get the jist of it. I just hate reading essays. No offense against you mate.
Message Edited by RogueKairi on 08-30-2004 10:12 AM
HashiEno
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:23 am
#6
i agree wholeheartedly.
i play on bloodfin... home of the unrepentant powergamer. i have seenhow those who refuse to role play, viewing it as "carebear" or "stupid" have gradually lost interest in the game, citing it to be too boring or lacking in content. these are the same characters who view anything that stands in the way of their relentless pursuit of xp/levels as a nuisance to be worked around. they end up stripping the game of any meaning themselves by constantly finding shortcuts and ways around meaningful interaction. then, somewhere along the way they find themselves wondering why they are even playing the game. hmmm.... doesnt seem too mysterious to me.
TwiZzoT
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:27 am
#7
The whole problem as I can see it with people complaining about being bored in SWG is that they have the mindset that this is a "console" game where you go from the beginning to the end and the ultimate goal is to beat the game. The sooner people understand and realize that MMORPGs cannot be beaten, and by their very nature should not be, these people will enjoy the game again. Just my feelings on the subject.
Alysie
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:37 am
#8
First of all, I would just like to say this is a wonderful post.
Second, I would like to point out that I am a new player. I have only been playing for a little over a month now and have become quite addicted to the game. I am normally a FPS player......this is my first time playing a MMORPG and I have been having a wonderful time with it. The one thing I have noticed though, after reading these forums, is the amount of complaining that goes on around here and the bashing that is done to the devs. Personally I think that is pathetic. I give the devs enormous credit for creating such an incredible game. Granted, there are bugs still, as I'm sure they are aware, but does bashing them really solve anything?? Do you people who are complaining really know what kind of time and effort is involved in creating a game of this magnitude?? A lot of people in here sound like selfish, spoiled brats. It is quite sad really.
If you are unhappy with the game....move on. There are plenty of other games out there. As far as EQ goes (since so many people bring up the EQ comparison), if it is so much better go play it instead. Is that really that hard? Or do you just need something to complain about?
My hat goes off to the devs of the game. I do not believe that you get the respect that you deserve and I would just like to let you know that I appreciate everything you do. I have definitely found a game that I will be playing for a long time and I look forward to growing with the community and seeing all the new developments that come around. Keep up the good work!!
And to those of you that post in these forums that I have had the pleasure of meeting online.....you guys make this game worthwhile.... :-)
Alysie Srikega
Apprentice Swordsman/Novice Creature Handler
Lowca
OberSenf
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:43 am
#9
Excellent post!
Another 5 stars for you.
I'll simply add a great place to begin your role-playing adventure is your characters own biography (accessed by cntr-p). Make up a story of your toons background and add to it as he/she evolves. Many fellow RP'ers read bios and react accordingly when they see you've spent some time on a story.
Another 5 stars for you.
I'll simply add a great place to begin your role-playing adventure is your characters own biography (accessed by cntr-p). Make up a story of your toons background and add to it as he/she evolves. Many fellow RP'ers read bios and react accordingly when they see you've spent some time on a story.
KiajaSlade
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:50 am
#10
Not to sound sarcastic...but maybe I'll try that. Make my own game. Basically, it's like playing war in your backyard when you were a kid (or when I was a kid that is) against imaginary people, with sticks in hand, with a bunch of friends...
Maybe that's what I've been missing...so used to playing FPSrs or Pure strategy games.
Slade
PyscoJuggalo
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:53 am
#11
I rather roleplay on the kitchen table and use my imagination with 10 other people, then play this cruddy arse Jedi Online
This game just stinks
This game just stinksOh and....................
FREE QUEBEC!!!!!!!!!!!
AngryHoopJumper
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:54 am
#12
GotEgg wrote:This is a truly excellent post! 5 stars for you.Roleplaying even a little bit can increase immersion immensely. If you can get yourself into the mindset of 'being inside' your character, it changes the whole dynamic of the game. All of a sudden you really want to read all the information that NPCs give out, you want to see the places you visit, not just get the badge and run, you want to experience the world you live in.I urge any player that hasn't ever really tried the roleplay aspect of this game to step up to it - You may find that it becomes a whole new game for you.
xxxxxx: can u giv me credits?
Impyyy: No, Citizen, but I can direct you to where you can earn them. Try the Emperor's Retreat on Naboo. Or if you're feeling like a traitor, the Rebel Base on Corellia."
xxxxxx: y r u talking so proper?
Impyyy: The Empire demands much of its Citizens.
xxxxxx: how mane credits did u tip?
Impyyy: ...but it does not believe in charity.
xxxxxx: u sound like ur brainwashed u know that dont u?
Impyyy: /addignore, /sigh
CubaLibre
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:57 am
#13
I gave you five stars, but I have to agree with Rithastra (is that right?) on this one.
It is true that almost no one roleplays, or FEELS the universe they are in. They don't suck in the environment and let it take them places; they see it as pleasant window-dressing on top of their XP machine. I feel sorry for whoever created all the dialogue for the Warren, which I'm sure is hardly ever read these days.
So, for endorsing this kind of activity, I applaud you. But there is another side to this: player-created content cannot be wholly depended upon for entertainment, as in the quote in Rithastra's post.
It's true that chess and backgammon give you rules and a situation and provide none of their own input, but SWG isn't chess or backgammon. It is not a board game; it's "interactive entertainment", as the artsy types like to call it, and interactive it should be. There should be more INTERACTIVE content, i.e., content that reacts to you and your subsequent reactions, in more than just a "this mob shoots at me when I shoot at him" way.
The reason people aren't immersing themselves in the environment and letting it take them places is that the environment sucks. It has all the trappings of Star Wars, but none of its core attributes. (Note that this is the same problem with Episodes 1 and 2.) Star Wars was entertaining because it was mythical and archetypical, with an overlay of grunge and realism. The battles between Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were like the battles between Beowulf and Grendel: epic, heartfelt, and completely without irony.
The battles between players of SWG are nothing of the sort. Star Wars... tailors? Chefs? Who made this game. It's a viable MMOG, but it's not Star Wars. And if it's not Star Wars, people are not going to roleplay. If the devs want to make the game systematic and technical, than the players are going to play it systematically and technically, and pay more attention to the numbers than the quest.
In other words, the devs have to meet us halfway on this. If the environment was compelling, people would be compelled. But it just isn't. It has its moments of synergy, yes - when you're camping after a long hunt, and the sun breaks over the mountains - but they almost feel accidental, as if they exist in spite of the developers' best efforts.
There's potential, but it's not just in the players. It's also in the devs. And they both have to blossom for the other to shine.
It is true that almost no one roleplays, or FEELS the universe they are in. They don't suck in the environment and let it take them places; they see it as pleasant window-dressing on top of their XP machine. I feel sorry for whoever created all the dialogue for the Warren, which I'm sure is hardly ever read these days.
So, for endorsing this kind of activity, I applaud you. But there is another side to this: player-created content cannot be wholly depended upon for entertainment, as in the quote in Rithastra's post.
It's true that chess and backgammon give you rules and a situation and provide none of their own input, but SWG isn't chess or backgammon. It is not a board game; it's "interactive entertainment", as the artsy types like to call it, and interactive it should be. There should be more INTERACTIVE content, i.e., content that reacts to you and your subsequent reactions, in more than just a "this mob shoots at me when I shoot at him" way.
The reason people aren't immersing themselves in the environment and letting it take them places is that the environment sucks. It has all the trappings of Star Wars, but none of its core attributes. (Note that this is the same problem with Episodes 1 and 2.) Star Wars was entertaining because it was mythical and archetypical, with an overlay of grunge and realism. The battles between Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were like the battles between Beowulf and Grendel: epic, heartfelt, and completely without irony.
The battles between players of SWG are nothing of the sort. Star Wars... tailors? Chefs? Who made this game. It's a viable MMOG, but it's not Star Wars. And if it's not Star Wars, people are not going to roleplay. If the devs want to make the game systematic and technical, than the players are going to play it systematically and technically, and pay more attention to the numbers than the quest.
In other words, the devs have to meet us halfway on this. If the environment was compelling, people would be compelled. But it just isn't. It has its moments of synergy, yes - when you're camping after a long hunt, and the sun breaks over the mountains - but they almost feel accidental, as if they exist in spite of the developers' best efforts.
There's potential, but it's not just in the players. It's also in the devs. And they both have to blossom for the other to shine.
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