Game Guides Archive

The cloakers/ninja looters thing isn't such a problem for us, because the thing is that they keep looting the 3rd room (with a chest).

It's not that difficult to pull the SBDs from it one by one and get ur group to tke them down. I do it all the time.

On top of that, if yo uhave some dead members, the doc (who waited outside on purpose) have just to get in and he can rez the guys immediately. Anyone who was stupid enough to clone can come back easily.

So, that cloaker/ninaj looter problem is just annoying, at worse.

The real thing that need some love is the loot, period =)

Message Edited by Alternativ on 08-29-2005 01:38 PM

Alternative, if that is the situation in your server you must consider yourself lucky... We have run into cloakers well past the room with the chest, in the rooms for the 2nd or 3rd key, and I tell ya, it's not pretty.

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Dackrendarck wrote:

loot does not need to be changed at all, its easier to get it now post-CU, it seems the drops are more frequent and mobs are easier to kill... loot is good, in the past 2 weeks my team has gotten 3 PLCs and 2 BLs

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Dack, just because you guys have been lucky doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody across all servers... I have been doing daily runs in a Euro server the last week. We spent about 18 hours in the DWB over the weekend alone. So far we have only seen one PLC...

So let's see... well over 40 hours spent inside the DWB in the last week ... and the only Mando component looted so far is a single PLC?

Please, please, please, don't generalize and think that just because you have it easy (or got lucky) everybody else does, too.

The drop rates are the worst part of the DWB, the devs need to show some love and increase the drop rates a wee bit.

P.S. Dack, if you guys get so much loot in your server... how about sharing the wealth? I can create a toon in your server and get it up to CL80 in about a week or two... Will you share your loot with me too, since it's so easy for you?

Message Edited by pussycat on 08-29-2005 06:49 PM

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pussycat wrote:

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Dackrendarck wrote:

loot does not need to be changed at all, its easier to get it now post-CU, it seems the drops are more frequent and mobs are easier to kill... loot is good, in the past 2 weeks my team has gotten 3 PLCs and 2 BLs

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Dack, just because you guys have been lucky doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody across all servers... I have been doing daily runs in a Euro server the last week. We spent about 18 hours in the DWB over the weekend alone. So far we have only seen one PLC...

So let's see... well over 40 hours spent inside the DWB in the last week ... and the only Mando component looted so far is a single PLC?

Please, please, please, don't generalize and think that just because you have it easy (or got lucky) everybody else does, too.

The drop rates are the worst part of the DWB, the devs need to show some love and increase the drop rates a wee bit.

P.S. Dack, if you guys get so much loot in your server... how about sharing the wealth? I can create a toon in your server and get it up to CL80 in about a week or two... Will you share your loot with me too, since it's so easy for you?

Message Edited by pussycat on 08-29-2005 06:49 PM

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w/e guess it is just CHilly, or the fact that so many from our guild live down there... there have been about 8 peices made in the past month here, and -X- stil has many BLs left to use. bottom line is though, mando should be really rare, and there should really not be a ton of it on every server, you just have to work hard to get it

I dissagree with some of you, it should not be easier, its made to be the hardest dungeon in the game, its meant to be a CHALLENGE! infact, with a proper group, its kinda easy

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Dackrendarck wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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Dackrendarck wrote:

loot does not need to be changed at all, its easier to get it now post-CU, it seems the drops are more frequent and mobs are easier to kill... loot is good, in the past 2 weeks my team has gotten 3 PLCs and 2 BLs

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Dack, just because you guys have been lucky doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody across all servers... I have been doing daily runs in a Euro server the last week. We spent about 18 hours in the DWB over the weekend alone. So far we have only seen one PLC...

So let's see... well over 40 hours spent inside the DWB in the last week ... and the only Mando component looted so far is a single PLC?

Please, please, please, don't generalize and think that just because you have it easy (or got lucky) everybody else does, too.

The drop rates are the worst part of the DWB, the devs need to show some love and increase the drop rates a wee bit.

P.S. Dack, if you guys get so much loot in your server... how about sharing the wealth? I can create a toon in your server and get it up to CL80 in about a week or two... Will you share your loot with me too, since it's so easy for you?

Message Edited by pussycat on 08-29-2005 06:49 PM

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w/e guess it is just CHilly, or the fact that so many from our guild live down there... there have been about 8 peices made in the past month here, and -X- stil has many BLs left to use. bottom line is though, mando should be really rare, and there should really not be a ton of it on every server, you just have to work hard to get it

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I have never said that Mando shouldn't be rare or that I wouldn't want it to be rare... the point is that in some servers the drop rates are BEYOND RIDICULOUS. In Wanderhome we have been doing runs several times a week and have only seen 1 PLC. On Chimaera I have led daily teams for the last week or so, often spending 5-6 hours each day. Sometimes up to 10 hours. We do it mostly to help people who need jetpacks crafted or want to do the foreman's quest... and seen only 1 PLC in a whole week of daily runs. Between the two servers I have spent well over 80 hours inside the DWB in the last week alone! So do not dare to say that it's all a matter of "working hard to get it", the bottom line is that the drop rates are MESSED UP. That's all there is to it, the drop rates need to be increased because you can spend more time in the DWB than in a full-time job and still end up with NOTHING, not even for one person, much less for 2 or 3.

I said this again, Dack, if you think it's so easy to loot Mando components, then why don't you share the wealth? I can create a toon in your server and join your DWB runs, I can do up to 40 hours a week if you have that many runs. Will you share your Mando components with me, then? Because you made it sound like it is just dropping like crazy... so let me join your DWB if I come to your server, it sounds like you have it very easy there.

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DaHotLama wrote:

I dissagree with some of you, it should not be easier, its made to be the hardest dungeon in the game, its meant to be a CHALLENGE! infact, with a proper group, its kinda easy

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You are missing the point... I enjoy a challenge as much as the next gal. I love the DWB because it's the toughest dungeon in the game. And I still think that it needs some love, as the title of the thread says. Maybe they can turn down the mob levels a bit, so that it won't always require Jedi tanks to get through it; and they also have to revisit the drop rates in there... they are waaaaay beyond ridiculous right now, you can spend 40 hours a week in the DWB on some servers and come up empty-handed as far as Mando components go. And don't tell me that 40+ hours a week in the DWB is "just not trying hard enough" because that's baloney. That's total baloney. I have been doing the DWB for a little over 2 months, doing it religiously, I am now leading daily runs in a Euro server to take advantage of the time difference (which sometimes allows 2 or 3 runs a day). And all I have to show for it in the way of Mando components is just 1 PLC. Don't dare to tell me that it's just about "not trying hard enough", I would need to be in the DWB 24 hours a day 7 days a week to be "trying harder". Is it easy with the right group? Yes, but almost invariably this involves having 4-6 Jedi (mostly Master Defenders), the game shouldn't only reward groups that have Jedi toons with them.

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Dackrendarck wrote:

First off, the DWB does not require Jedi at all, hell if a TKM/defense stacker knows what they are doing they can tank if ya got the right group. Jedi help alot, but are not needed. Next off, you complain that you are not getting loot drops from runs, when you have to camp areas. Death Watch that spawn do not drop loot. And there may be an issue on some servers that loot droping is low, but dont generalize and say every serever has to have the rates increased. There is alot of Mando already, and it is increasing quickly now that the DWB is so easy, there does not need to be a massive increase in the amount of BL/PLC drops. And if yr server is so dry, then take it up on those forums, dont generalize that every server needs to have its rates increase. If 1 guild alone can average getting the parts for and actually craft a peice of Mando, there will be a few full suits lying around very quickly

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Sorry, honey, but you have to stop twisting my arguments because you only seem to be bent on playing devil's advocate here. I did not say that the DWB "requires" Jedi, just that most of the really effective groups (as in making swift progress thru DWB) seem to require a few Jedi, preferrably Master Defenders and/or cloakers. I have never said that Jedi are indispensible; however, it does seem a bit unfair that the DWB can be considerably easier when you have a group that has a lot of Jedi. And you *shouldn't* have to camp areas in ordere to get good loot; the fact that you seem to think camping is necessary is a perfect proof that the current drop rates are not consistent with giving playes good loot in the course of normal gameplay. If you have to camp, then you are probably taking loot away from more casual players who do simple DWB runs. Pehaps that is why you have so many components now. Nor have I ever argued for a "massive" increase in drop rates, you are flat-out missrepresenting what I have said, and you are doing it shamelessly. I do not want a "massive" increase nor have I ever asked for a "massive" increase... To me, an increase from 0.01 percent to at least 0.1 percent or even 0.3 percent would seem very acceptable. That is hardly what would qualify as a "massive" increase.... a massive increase would be to make the drop rate 5% or 6%. Now, at the moment I am doing DWB runs on two live servers, and will soon start runs in the TC as well, so I think you are more guilty of generalizing since you are basing your opinions on just *one* live server.

I have asked you 2 times already and you have conveniently dodged the question: If the drop rates are so nice for you in Chilastra, why not share the wealth? This is the third time I have to ask you: would you be willing to share this abundant loot you speak of? I can come to your server and have a CL80 toon fairly quick, she won't be a Jedi, but then, you say Jedi are not needed. I will join you in as many DWB runs as you organize. How long before I have enough components to craft 2-3 Mando items? Will you help me in getting the components? I am willing to put 40+ hours a week to DWB runs, so tell me please how long before I have some components in your server?

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Demio_Olaron wrote:
I also think the DWB should be toned down a bit. Yes, made a bit easier. Right now it's a very elitist place and I think it should be opened to the majority of the population tbh.

What's the fun of having a dungeon that only 5% of the players can enjoy?

By the way, flame away, go ahead. I already reported one of the posters in this thread and I'll do it again tbh.

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So you would rather have no high end contect and have all places be open to all people? What, then, would there be to keep high end players engaged? Why should they continue paying that 13$/month? There HAS to be high end contect that ONLY the top people are able to do and sometimes just barely able to do for the game to hold any interest to them. If there are no challanges then why would anyone pay to play the game?

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JediGias wrote:

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Demio_Olaron wrote:
I also think the DWB should be toned down a bit. Yes, made a bit easier. Right now it's a very elitist place and I think it should be opened to the majority of the population tbh.

What's the fun of having a dungeon that only 5% of the players can enjoy?

By the way, flame away, go ahead. I already reported one of the posters in this thread and I'll do it again tbh.

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So you would rather have no high end contect and have all places be open to all people? What, then, would there be to keep high end players engaged? Why should they continue paying that 13$/month? There HAS to be high end contect that ONLY the top people are able to do and sometimes just barely able to do for the game to hold any interest to them. If there are no challanges then why would anyone pay to play the game?

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OK, I'm sorry but that's a false dichotomy. It's not an "either-or" situation where the only alternative to making the game a bit more egalitarian is to "have all place be open to all people". Casual gamers don't get to be CL80 as fast as powergamers. And on top of the there is the Jedi profession, certainly you don't get to go from FS to a full-template Jedi overnight. There are already a lot of "gates" that mean casual gamers won't ever enjoy the same stuff as powergamers and people who spend 15+ hours a week in-game. You can turn down the notch a bit on DWB and it's still got plenty of challenges for "high-end" players. I don't see why you would think that having high-end content in the game that ONLY the top people can do makes it hold interest for us. I have been in game since launch, I've done pretty much every quest and mission there is.... what I enjoy most is helping other players who are new to the game and are trying to get some basic goals accomplished. I would much rather they were able to join me on stuff like DWB so that they, too, could see all of the fun things there are to do in the game and will remain interested to be in the game for the long run, instead of just doing a quick grind and then moving on when the next MMORPG comes along.

So, yes, the DWB should be turned down a notch. The drop rates should be tweaked -- not a "massive" increase as Dread would have you believe I want -- so that crafting stuff in the DWB is not an impossible dream to an average player. I mean, even if it was possible for a dedicated player (one who goes to the DWB at every opportunity) to get 1 set of PLC/BL a month.... it would still take close to a year to put together a full suit of Mando armor. It really shouldn't be that hard, this is just a game, let people have fun and if they want Mando armor, make it so it's not close to impossible to get one. I mean, what's the big deal about Mando anyhow? There's only 2 sets of armor in the game that are taken from the bounty hunters in the movies: Mabari and Mando. I wouldn't advocate for both to be equally accessible, but a bit more Mando here and there (while still making it the rarest armor in the game) would be a definite improvement, we need more stuff to give the game a Star-Warsy atmosphere.

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pussycat wrote:

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Ejai wrote:

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pussycat wrote: God, you honestly haven't been reading all along, have you??? Either that or you are being incredibly dense. "Try it yourself"? I must have said this a zillion times, but I guess I just have to say it again... been there, don't that. I've been in several successful runs to the DWB, and I know how to make it to the crafting room and even get a CL1 toon down there. Guess what? It doesn't matter, the DWB still needs to be brought down a notch because the way it is, you still can't get enough people interested on a regular basis. The DWB mobs should be brought down a notch, otherwise the DWB will only be there for the benefit of uber-elite powergamers, especially those who want to make million$$ from it.

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You're entitled to your opinion... even if it's wrong.

This idea that everything in SWG needs to be able to be accomplished by what you call the "casual player" and that things shouldn't be geared for what you call the "uber elite power gamer" is ludicrous. I have to assume that you also advocate lowering standards of education and eliminating testing, as it "isn't fair to the casual student"... and we should likely remove any physical trials or litmus test for our military personnel because the "casual soldier" ought to be just as welcomed on the front lines or as the person with their finger on the big red button. In fact - why not eliminate money, as it clearly isn't fair to the "casual career person" who doesn't really want to work too hard... those "uber elite workaholics" really do deserve to have their efforts be all for naught.

The bottom line is - the Death Watch Bunker is NOT particularly difficult right now as long as you have a well organized team of folks who have completed (or even nearly so) templates. EVERY SINGLE SERVER has hundreds of plyaers who could easily do this (as evidenced by the recent server census). It absolutely IS a challenge... and does require strategy... and to make it any less than that will ruin it as an accomplishment for those who enjoy a challenge... which, in my mind, is 90% of the population of folks who play games - including this one.

On Tempest we organize weekly expeditions into the bunker, open to the general public... we provide the Alum Minerals and the Stabilizers free of charge to anyone who wants a jetpack or Mandalorian Armor... we charge a grand total of ZERO for this... and it is a great time for a lot of folks.

Last but not least.... I am further assuming that when they were handing out brains, and you got to the front of the line... SOMEbody said "let's bring it down a notch"....

(((all flames executed with light heart and no personal insult intended. Please refererence this link)))

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You're also entitled to your opinion... even if it's wrong.

How is it ludicrous to provide a level playing field for all players? Everybody pays the same monthly fee, so everybody should have an equal opportunity to access dungeons and special areas/instances once they have the CL for it. To say otherwise is to be an elitist pig. Uber-eleet powergamers just want to hoard all for themselves and not share with anybody. You cannot compare an ONLINE GAME to RL stuff like education, the military, etc. Because it's a GAME!!! That's all it is, a game for which we all pay the same.

The DWB will remain a challenge even after being taken down a notch. Why? Because it will still require coordination, strategy, and more likely than not, persistance (especially when it comes to crafting). It is no different than many other dungeons in the game in that it's impossible with the wrong group yet can be a lot of fun if you have the right group. That's what it all comes down to. And making it more accessible is just fair to the player base. If you want to make it more challenging for yourself you can try going with a smaller group than you're used to, it's no biggie.

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You are absolutley right, everyone does deserve the same opportunities to access the same dungeons. And you know what? They do have that, right now, at this very moment, and always have in galaxies. Just because someone has played from day one does not mean that they have some special powers that someone who has played for 3 months does not have. EVERYONE has the same exact chance of success in galaxies because we all do start on the same exact footing. Everyone can access every dungeon, but it just requires that the people actually work hard and try. There is not one single person on any server that cannot go out there and do Jabba's quests so he can talk to Boba Fett, and gain access to the Death Watch Bunker, and then form a group and traverse the dungeon. NO ONE is prohibited from that. The thing is that people have to work for it. This game would tank and die, as would any other game, if everything was handed to the player on a silver platter. The fun of games is the challange and the work put in to reach a goal, you take that away and you cannot even call it a game anymore, it then becomes a movie, watching things happen to a character. And you do not have to be a power gammer to do the DWB.

I am a casual gamer. I have been in game since the beta, but I never grinded a profession (except doctor). I have never used a grinding macro, I spent MONTHS getting my Rifleman proffession. I dont have super equipment, I have decent armor, but nothing super special. The group I run with read up on the DWB guides and tagged along with other groups a few times and now we run the bunker. Of two weeks of bunker runs we ended up with 3 jetpacks and 2 mando helms. Does that sound like an impossibly hard dungeon that only the best of the best can complete? All that the DWB requires is a team with the right professions, those people to be of high enough level, and good strategy.

Now if we step over to your view for a moment we can see what results. To be correct in your views they must be consistant. You cannot think that it is okay to do X when Y at one time then turn around and at a nother time say it is wrong to do X when Y. You say that the Death Watch Bunker needs to be decreased in difficulty to suit the masses. Since you do not want it accessible just to the people who develop strategy and work hard at learning the bunker but just open to everybody, we get some interesting other view points. This being the case, we have to remember that a very substancial portion of the population of the servers are crafters/new players. I lump these together because they are both weak in combat. To suit a majority of the population we have to make the DWB survivable by these people. So it would be good to see a level 5 brawler beating up an SBD? But wait, we can't stop with the DWB. To be consistant in your view of leveling the playing field (which I say is already level because everyone has the same opportunities, just not he same skills yet, but if they WORKED at it they could have the same skill sets) we have to make everything as such. We have to have new pilots in head hunters being able to fight gunboats and corvetts. Why cant a novice marksman take on Necrosis? Why cant a scout beat down a Nightsister Elder? If you want to make the DWB easier because not every player can play it with their current template, at this very moment, then there you must say the same thing about every other part of the game that is also not playable by them.

Why is it not alright for people to have to work their way up to level 80 to play these areas? Why is it not alright that they have to develop a strategy to fight the hard bosses rather than just spamming their best special? Consider any game that has every existed... EVER. If a game does not hold a challange of some sort it is not a game, period. This is true for the newest player and the oldest player. EVERYONE has to be equal in your mind? Then why are you not treating them equally? You are trying to take away the best challange for the most senior people while introducing a new challange to the newest people. Seems like you are not leveling the playing field but rather tilting it to the newer player. People have to have the possibility for failure for there to be the possibility of success. People have to have challanges for them to find a game entertaining. How fun would Galaxies be if you signed on and all you got was a screen saying "You win", and thats all there is?