Force Sensitive Archive

It was just pointed out to me from a Jedi friend that this statement is incorrect...

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The template
may be complete, but you still lose Xp, which means losing skills. So there is
still something to lose. yes, it is a high risk profession, already with a lot
of limitations in place.
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So I withdraw the part about losing XP. I still have a lot to learn :-)

"Everyone dies. The question is do you die doing what you enjoy?"

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Venemous-Breed wrote:
It was just pointed out to me from a Jedi friend that this statement is incorrect...

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The template
may be complete, but you still lose Xp, which means losing skills. So there is
still something to lose. yes, it is a high risk profession, already with a lot
of limitations in place.
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So I withdraw the part about losing XP. I still have a lot to learn :-)

"Everyone dies. The question is do you die doing what you enjoy?"

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hehe, don't we all.

Since launch, the path to jedi, as well as the grind, has been argued back and forth, side to side... and to no beneficial results for everyone.

I guess it's hard to please everyone.

I suppose, a start, would be more servers. That kinda sounds like a good idea to start with. Perhaps, a server where you can create a Padawan at character creation. A server for people who just want to playa Jedi in an MMORPG.

And perhaps a server that has NO Jedi on it. A place for the players who say "Jedi shouldn't be in the game", and so forth.

Maybe a 3rd server, with the old Holocron system in place, for the players who want to try a lot of professions, and gradually come closer to unlocking without feeling rushed, or forced to gain xp simply to convert it, to make any progress. (as a Master Weaponsmith, going up the crafting lines in the current system, I'm lucky if I get about 200pts of force crafting xp per week. I won't even comment on resource sampling for senses xp.....)

Regardless, I suppose this was the system the devs decided would be best for everyone.

Much of my animosity for the current system was from personal experiences, including a long chat with Hayden Blackman at the San Diego Comic Convention, and the original game handbook (which, unfortunately, is sooo out of date, it's kinda pointless to mention).

During the holocron-craze, I helped many many people unlock. These same people turned their back on me when I tried to do the same. It's a shame how selfish people can be, when they're so eager to get what they want. After being used by these "Jedi", I hold no love for them, nor the Jedi community as a whole. I do have a select few Jedi friends on my main servers, so I know there are exceptions. But all in all, until my efforts have been reciprocated, I'll always be pro-permadeath

It's kinda like having someone spit in your face after you've given them the shirt off your back......

Actually, on mine I do not see the A your talking about. Yes, I do html, along with Coldfusion, ASP, and other programming. I had a web hosting/design business on the side for awhile. Now I own another business, but it has nothing to do with programming.

I can agree about all the back and forth about whats good and whats bad. You see it everywhere. Nobody can please 100% of the people 100% of the time. It is just NOT possible. But EVERYBODY has a right to their opinion, and in the USA everybody has the right to express it ( don't know about that with Bush in charge). I think they should just leave things well enough alone when it comes to some things. The Jedi are hard to get, not due to content, but due to time constrictions. As I said, I own and run a business, and certainly do NOT have the most time. If Jedi were anymore time dependant, I would have no shot whatsoever at ever getting one. :-)

“seriously..ther are too many jedi, u have to be playing swg for a month with tk/swords and u can get it with ease. I think they should bring in a suprise phase, the village gets totaled for a couple of months to slow down the rate. or make jedi a normal prof cause thats what its basicalyl is now.”

The hard part is taking this post seriously, but I’m going to make the effort.

1. On what basis do you find there are to many Jedi? How do you gauge what the correct amount is? I’m curious, and that is where you should ahev started your post to give it substance.

2. You state Jedi can be achieved in one month with MTK, or M Sword.

A.You have to glow with the force first, and at an insane pace you could grind the profession mastery, POI visits, content badges in about 2 weeks.
B. Then you have to wait for the old man, average time 2 days.
C. Next you have to wait for the Sith, average time, 2 days.
D. Each village phase takes 3 weeks, and you need to do 6, 18 weeks.
E. Now you have to wait for a second old man visit, average time 2 days.
F. Next Mel must be defeated, 1 day
G. Padawan trials are next, this is hard to gauge, but if you push it, 1 week.

Time from profession mastery to Jedi initiate (very minimum)= 22 weeks, or roughly 6 months….

Now, you would have to have substantial funds in game, and a dual mastery to pull this off, and that would take a few months as well. From buying the game to Jedi initiate could be done in 8 months, but that also leaves out the game knowledge and savvy you will need. My friend, your math does not add up, how exactly can this be done in a month?

As to the allegation that Jedi can be unlocked to quickly, I agree, but your concept of the time it takes is way off base. I think the Devs deserve credit for a great story line, and a nice framework of quests in the village. I also think the Padawan trials are a great, and fun set of quests. The Mel fight is aces, supurb, some of the best work I’ve seen in the game. Heck, I even like the concept of progression towards Glowing with the force, good stuff.

Credit being given where due, I’ll now comment on what’s wrong with the system:

1. It’s to easy to get to “Glowing with the force”
Solution: Requite all POI badges; requite 4 profession master badges, a combat, a medical, a crafting, and an entertainer; add 2 more content badges, ; requite 1 year of subscription time before you can begin the village portion of the game.

2. Grinding xp is not fun, rewarding, or Jedi like; besides he who exploits the most will advance the quickest, and this is exactly the type of player who should not be Jedi.
Solution: Replace xp grinding with in-depth interactive quests that follow a story arc, and include complex and changing puzzles and riddles that teach the Jedi way. The village quests should stay, but these Quests rolled from a terminal should grant the XP to fill the village skills.
3. Jedi are to visible.
Solution: Have NPCS like Vader, Mara Jade, The Emporer, and Buba Fett (the redneck bounty hunter), come after those who can’t keep the lightsaber where it belongs.
4. Padawan Trials, are great concepts, but all to easy.
Solution: Make them change, as the walk-troughs abound. What makes them easy is being spoon-fed the answers. Where they are kill type missions, beef up the mobs.

My responses are based on my own journey to Jedi, which began upon game release, and ended 12/23/04. What I have stated above is my opinion, and please do comment on it, constructively. However, do not flame as that is just a waste of time, and will not get your post read, or acted upon.

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Kovev wrote:
2. You state Jedi can be achieved in one month with MTK, or M Sword.

A.You have to glow with the force first, and at an insane pace you could grind the profession mastery, POI visits, content badges in about 2 weeks.
B. Then you have to wait for the old man, average time 2 days.
C. Next you have to wait for the Sith, average time, 2 days.
D. Each village phase takes 3 weeks, and you need to do 6, 18 weeks.
E. Now you have to wait for a second old man visit, average time 2 days.
F. Next Mel must be defeated, 1 day
G. Padawan trials are next, this is hard to gauge, but if you push it, 1 week.

Time from profession mastery to Jedi initiate (very minimum)= 22 weeks, or roughly 6 months….

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Just a quick note, it's not really a 6 month minimum. I have it on good authority that a character started around September 9, 2004 will be Initiate around February 9, 2005 which is exactly 5 months, and this was not the fastest, because he did his first unlock in the original Phase 2, but had to wait a week for the next Phase, plus he wasn't quick enough grinding his XP so he's 2.5 weeks behind on that (last skill unlocked in this Phase 3, but he has a couple days XP grinding to do.

The problem is your phase timing. You don't have to wait for the first one, so that's 3 weeks saved, plus if you start from scratch during a phase and manage to get to the village in time to do the quest at the end of that phase, you can combine that with the three week wait for the second phase, so that'll save another 3 weeks. With that 6 weeks saved the minimum is more like 4 months. 15 weeks waiting for the phases (Since you don't have to wait for the first and did all your Village prep work during the first phase, then another week or so for the old man, Mellichae, and half the Padawan trials to get Initiate (which is technically a Jedi). Makes 16 weeks, approximately 4 months.

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DRWolfe wrote:


Just a quick note, it's not really a 6 month minimum. I have it on good authority that a character started around September 9, 2004 will be Initiate around February 9, 2005 which is exactly 5 months, and this was not the fastest, because he did his first unlock in the original Phase 2, but had to wait a week for the next Phase, plus he wasn't quick enough grinding his XP so he's 2.5 weeks behind on that (last skill unlocked in this Phase 3, but he has a couple days XP grinding to do.

The problem is your phase timing. You don't have to wait for the first one, so that's 3 weeks saved, plus if you start from scratch during a phase and manage to get to the village in time to do the quest at the end of that phase, you can combine that with the three week wait for the second phase, so that'll save another 3 weeks. With that 6 weeks saved the minimum is more like 4 months. 15 weeks waiting for the phases (Since you don't have to wait for the first and did all your Village prep work during the first phase, then another week or so for the old man, Mellichae, and half the Padawan trials to get Initiate (which is technically a Jedi). Makes 16 weeks, approximately 4 months.

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That's actually incorrect also being the fact the phases last 3 weeks +3-4 days extra. They have not nor will not start exactly 3 weeks after each phase. So adding that in it comes to 17 1/2 - 18 weeks minimum just to get to the 2nd old man. So you still have 1-3 days there then the Padawan trials can take from 8-20 hrs to do depending on how lucky you get with the waypoints, finding the flumpasets, finding the Sludge panthers, (the baz nitches are cake obviouslly) etc. I think for me it took about 10-13 hrs or so. But either way if someone told you they unlocked in 15 weeks jedi initiate then they are full of bs. No offense just saying it is impossible.

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Venemous-Breed wrote:
I am not too sure how to change the font colors on this board, so I am gonna give it a shot with html. Thank you for the 5 star. Your responses also seem to be well thought out, so lets continue this.

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Fantastic. So after those 2 years you spent on grinding, if you die, you can give
up ALL YOUR Jedi skills that you spent 2 years grinding, and start back from the
beginning. If since it is such a great solution, you can do it voluntarily :-)
Yes. That is the point. From what I understood, Jedi was supposed to be a high-risk
profession to do. I am a master weaponsmith. From what I hear, at Knight, a Jedi's
template is complete, so XP loss isn't a problem.The template
may be complete, but you still lose Xp, which means losing skills. So there is
still something to lose. yes, it is a high risk profession, already with a lot
of limitations in place. I'm not sure if you've ever been an active weaponsmith,
but I can assure you, I'd gladly trade XP loss for MY frustrations any day. Advertising,
competing with 12pt smiths, and scrounging up harvester maintenance from my 3k
per week weapons sales... yeah.No, I am not a weaponsmith.
I am a Master Doc though. I understand fully what competition is about. Although,
if all I made was 3k a week I would find another business. That would not even
be worth my time. I'll take xp loss. And just like a Knight, It wouldn't
mean too much to a master weaponsmith. Like a weaponsmith, a Jedi should know
what they're getting into. And if it truly was a High-Risk profession, the Jedi
should be played where they are constantly afraid of dying.People
in general play that way now. Not all Jedi go out and show off. I have friends
who are Jedi now, and they are hermits. Not just "omg, I gotta grind another
week before I'm uber", but truly have a reason to hide. I do not for one second
subscribe to the permadeath thing. Your argument seems like all the problems with
trash talking in the game and brashness in the game, is directly related to the
amount of Jedi in the game. It's not.I have to disagree with this point. Yes,
when you get strong characters, you like to show off,no one is better than anyone
else. People shouldn't show off. and depending on your personal character out
of the game, talk trash. If it were not for the Jedi, the TKM's would do it, and
if not for the TKM's, the Swordsmen would do it, and the Rifleman would do it.
There will always be a strong class in the game. Yes, there will always be strong
classes in all games, but when was the last time you saw a thread stating "omg,
the only reason you pwned us was because you had 4 unbuffed carbineers!!"?Not sure I understand what you are saying here. I have
played several online games and you see it in EVERY game, not just this one. I
do not think it is a particular class of character that causes it, I think it
is a person who has a problem outside the game. I was running around outside of
correlia - cnet a couple of months ago, and a newbie was running around with an
aprentice swords tag up. He cut in on my spawn without asking. Yes, I know it
is not "My" spawn, as nobody owns it. But then he started talking smack. Addignore
does wonders for smack talk from newbies He obviously had not been playing long
or he would have known NOT to accept a duel from someone you do not know after
you talk smack to them. It took all of 5 seconds to kill him and send him to the
clone room. He was NOT a Jedi. Not an advanced prof. He was barely a beginning
prof, yet he was talking trash. If it was a Jedi Knight who had done that, would
you have confronted them as quickly as you confronted the newbie? Yes, I would, and Yes I have. I do not believe someone talking trash is doing it because they are playing their character. It is a reflection purely of the player behind the character, and I do not like people who do that.And I have seen
more than 1 of his type in my time in this game. So you cannot accurately predict
that things would smooth over by imposing such drastic consequences on a powerful
class of character. What it will do, is make the profession soooo unapealing that
nobody would want to spend the time and effort to play it. This would make Jedi
rare, as they are supposed to be in this timeframe. but at least they could still
have the option to play them, even if they chose not to.Then the primary class
that makes SWG SWG, would no longer exist as a viable class. Think about it. The
Jedi are the only class that makes this game Starwars. Then Jedi should be available
to everyone, without abandoning the content and quests in the game so they can
grind. Available to non-grinders like myself They ARE avaiable to anyone who wants to spend the time and effort to build one. From your own words, the satisfaction should come from the journey. They can take time off from grinding and do normal quests and content, as long as they do not use Jedi skills. So they are not really limited until they hit high levels.Otherwise it is just another Sci-Fi
based game. Jedi are already hard enough to play. Takes forever to grind them,
even longer to build them without grinding. True enjoyment comes through the journey,
not the completion. What's your rush? They already have another class of charcter
in the game that hunts them exclusivly. They lose that hard to get XP when they
lose to ANYTHING, resulting in more grinding. To stay off the terminals, avoid
using force powers or your lightsaber in front of people.I agree with this, this is called playing smart, and many do it already. Although everyone makes a mistake every now and then, and then they get on the terms and get hunted. Refer back to my "no
one should show off" statements, both here, and in my earlier post. They have
strong limitations placed no them such as vis. To get any rank above a knight
they have to fight other jedi (comparable characters) and get very little from
normal classes. Don't try and destroy a class and pin all the woes of the game
on them. Pin it where it belongs, on the players behind the character that like
to be disruptive of other peoples fun. I agree. But I wasn't trying to "Pin all
the woes of the game" on Jedi. I was merely referring to Jedi-impact on Jedi-related
issues. I would be happy to go into long detail about Crafters, Healers, Riflemen,
Dot weapons, CM's, Creature Handlers, and so on in a different thread (if one
arises). A lot of people have many problems with a lot of different professions.
This was a Jedi-related thread, so I discussed the Jedi's impact on the metagame.
You apparently misread my post. But your response was well thought out, and I
agree with you on many points. I have highlited in yellow where I believe you
misunderstood my comments, or where I disagreed with you. 5 stars for you.
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"Everyone dies. The question is, do you die doing what you enjoy?"

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anyone ever try to use paragraphs?

Well, I said 16 weeks, and going by the supposed 3 week phases that would have been right, but with the extra downtime factored in, it does add a bit.

I do know, however, that someone definitely could be Initiate in about 5 months, because of that character who started on September 9, 2004 and will be Initiate by February 9, 2005. That's about 21.5 weeks, and it would have been about 20 weeks if he'd been a bit quicker on XP and was able to train his last skill box on January 13,2005 when Phase 3 arrived.

I just want to see the original poster get to Jedi in one month with TKM! That would be a nice trick seeings how it takes 18 weeks to get through the village, even if you can grind all the exper in a month.

i kinda agree with this. however, isnt that what starwars is all about. since you watched it as a kid you always are amazed with the jedi. my little relatives are always wanting to see the jedi and be a jedi. thats basically what everyone wants. now not all but... even so, up until the combat upgrade comes out lots of pvp professions and templates can own jedi with the melee defense. so if your becoming a jedi you know that youll most likely get your butt handed to you unless your high enough in jedi. i know a guy who fouhgt one for 20 min and was doin good besides the force heals the guy used. im not a jedi atm and never thought i would want to be until i heard of the combat upgrade. so i dont care who goes jedi now.


Juke' Spoko

Message Edited by GarikAcabi on 01-27-2005 05:47 PM