Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: Imperial Inquisition
Chroma_Key
Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:08 am
#27
I updated my original post. My dialogue with Everitt_Cage conveinced me to implement a light side path right from the beginning. Hope it works 
Vcardossk
Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:50 am
#28
Everitt_Cage wrote:"I consider a village of force sensitive refugees and 2 jedi enclaves to be out of line story-wise."Your whole idea(which isnt a bad idea in itself) is based on this thought, that you think the current establishment goes against the SW story. Well, unfortunatly, yours does too. Allow me to explain:We have come to find out in the movies that there exists a rule among the Sith, commonly called the "Only Two" rule. What this rule states, is that there can never exist more than two Sith at a time. What is the reason for this rule? Thousands of years ago, when the Sith numbered in the thousands, the shear greed and lust for power that is the dark side, drove the Sith to fight amongst themselves and battle for leadership. They eventualy destroyed their Order as a whole, and the Jedi destroyed the remaining ones. Only one Sith survived. This Sith was named Darth Bane, and he established a New Sith Order, which, at its core, possessed a rule stating there could NEVER be more than two Sith at any given time, and the purpose of this new rule was to prevent the Sith from doing what they had done before when they were many.For a second realize the meaning BEHIND the rule. It's purpose was protection.Now. The Sith Order has existed in the shadows for a thousand years until, in this time period, Palpatine has brought them into the light, and taken over the entire republic, defeated the Jedi, and set himself up as Ruler. Just as it would violate the rule for himself or Vader to train another Sith(as having more sith around would be dangerous to either of them and violate the meaning BEHIND the rule), training dark jedi would be equaly dangerous. At the very core of the dark side are hate, greed, and lust. The greed and lust is what make any who use the dark side, Sith or Dark jedi, a danger to others who are their 'friends', as that greed and lust will drive them to destroy each other in the pursuit of being the most powerful. As it is, Palpatine can keep and eye on one apprentice(Vader). He would be foolish to condone the training of 'dark jedi' for the same reason he wouldnt condone the training of additional Sith (even though this is an contradiction of terms. A jedi is a servant of the people, somone who uses the dark side is a servant of themselves. Once you start using the dark side, you cease to be a Jedi, so there can never exist a 'dark jedi')There is nothing loyal about the dark side, thats the very nature of it. Any TRUE roleplayer, if they were a dark jedi, would try to overthrow Vader and the Emperor(were that possible in the game). Once again, the dark side is about lust for power, and somone controlled by the dark side would not be satisfied being somones dog on a leash.The whole point of this: The Emperor would not train people in the dark side of the force, as doing so would be creating people who could(and would) strive to otherthrow him to become more powerful themselves. Palpatine isnt a fool, and wouldnt create a system which so blatently WOULD endanger himself. I know in books that authors have written about dark jedi, but those authors are not George Lucas, and in the movies we have never seen a Dark Jedi. Many different authors write many different variations of the Star Wars story, and these different variations contradict each other many times. That is why its safest to stick to the movies and their novelizations as to what is and isnt fact, and just enjoy the expanded universe as what it is: different writers interpretations of the SW story.Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 01-12-2005 10:32 PM
Vader/Palptaine trained many people in the ways of the force, but they made darn sure they were no where near as powerful as they were. Some of them actually developed powers equivilant to that of Knights though. The sith were a order, dark jedi are jedi who aren't members of the sith but use the darkside/practices "Light" jedi tend to shun or stay away from.
Everitt_Cage
Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:57 am
#29
"Vader/Palptaine trained many people in the ways of the force, but they made darn sure they were no where near as powerful as they were. Some of them actually developed powers equivilant to that of Knights though. The sith were a order, dark jedi are jedi who aren't members of the sith but use the darkside/practices "Light" jedi tend to shun or stay away from."
You apparently missed the point I was making. I never said Dark Jedi and Sith were the same thing, I know much better than that. I'm saying that is a PRINCIPAL and a REASON behind the rule that states there can only be two sith at a time. And that same PRINCIPAL and REASON would also prohibit training additional people in the dark side of the force, even if they werent technically 'sith'. Is this really that hard to grasp? The reason for the rule was that if there were more than two sith they would destroy each other as they had done thousands of years ago.
Now, WHY would they destroy each other? NOT because they were sith, but because of what the dark side does to a person. It makes they greedy and drives them to lust after power. ANYONE who uses the dark side is inslaved to that. So, whether it be a third Sith they trained, or a Dark Jedi, training ANY people in the dark side of the force would against the REASON for the only two sith rule(protection), because the dark side drives all that use it to try to gain more and more power, and would lead the person they trained(Sith or dark jedi), into eventual conflict with Vader and Palpatine. Stories about "loyal" dark side servants go against everything thats ever been said in the movies about the dark side.
ArcadiusPryde
Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:57 am
#30
I like it a lot more then before now. One thing I'll add before I go and 5 star it....Knights who dropped out of the FRS (Mainly due to exploits, and what not) should be grandfathered into the new system if they chose. It wouldn't be hard as you could just search which characters have access to any of the FRS titles or have the FRS robes in their possession. 
-Arc
Chroma_Key
Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:19 pm
#31
ArcadiusPryde wrote:
Knights who dropped out of the FRS (Mainly due to exploits, and what not) should be grandfathered into the new system if they chose.
Do you mean dark jedi becoming inquisitors if they like?
Most definately, for this system tobegin there should be Imperial Inquisitors available to start the hunting process.
What of people who already are Jedi?
All jedi who have not completed the trials should be allowed to do so the way it currently is. Dark Jedi Knights should be turned to the Inquisition so this system may beginand Light Jedi Knightsleftthe waythey are.
Did I get your remark right or do you mean something else?
Chroma_Key
Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:21 pm
#32
Everitt_Cage asks why I suggest to make the light path harder.
I feel that the darkpath should be more seductive and quicker, and something I wasn't very clear about,a light jedishould havean edge over dark siders. After all this point of viewis canon right? 
The point is to make light jedi Rare and uber, as they should be.
Everitt_Cage
Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:17 pm
#33
Everitt_Cage asks why I suggest to make the light path harder.
I feel that the darkpath should be more seductive and quicker, and something I wasn't very clear about,a light jedishould havean edge over dark siders. After all this point of viewis canon right?
An edge? Do you mean in fighting? If so, then no. The 'bad guys' of the movies, the people who use the dark side of the force do seem to be better fighters. (Maul vs. Obi-wan and Qui-Gon, Dooku vs. Obi-Wan and Anakin, Anakin vs. Obi-wan in ep III, Vader vs. Obi-Wan in IV, Vader vs. Luke in ep V, Emperor vs. Luke in ep VI) Now ,the bad guys DID wind up losing, but thats because no matter WHAT they did, they couldnt stop the phrophecy from being fulfilled. In this game though, the only real edge people can have is in a fighting aspect, so no, Jedi were not better fighters than Dark Jedi from a canon point of view
The point is to make light jedi Rare and uber, as they should be.
As they SHOULD be? Its not LIGHT Jedi that should be rare, its ALL Jedi. Once again, I refer to Yoda's statment to Luke about after he died. Further proof was Tarkin's comment in ep IV that Vader was the last of that 'religion'.That established, you simply have a system out-lined that makes it unfairly hard to one faction and not the other, with no viable explanation.
Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 01-14-2005 05:20 PM
Lusiphur69
Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:37 pm
#34
Guys, just my own 2 cents.
I love the ideas I've seen. Even if Canon would not agree with them they would FEEL more right than current system.
However here's my own idea to "fudge" the facts if you will, just enough to make Yoda's statement once again true.
What is a Jedi?
Is it someone who is Force Sensitive? no
Is it someone who can USE the force? no
You did not earn the title unless you went through one of the academies thatwere in existence OR had a JEDI KNIGHT take you as his Padawan.
If the TITLE is the hangup then let it be. Yoda also said, "There is another..."
We know he meant Leia but SURELY he did not mean there was only one other Force Sensitive person in the galaxy left.
As far as training, we can even use the current "recluse" system, where you go and grind endlessly in the wastes to avoid being hunted down.
Take away the trainers, have a person meditate at a shrine to gain new abilities after gaining enough xp.
This way we all get to become "Force Users" or "Dark Force Users" AND keep Yoda's statement Canon.
To further enhance that statement INCREASE the hunt on Force Users.
I like the "If your scanned and discovered your auto attacked by all Imperial forces in the city and TEF'ed" idea.
There are those that will argue that you need either an academy or a mentor to learn force abilities.
I would disagree.
Jedi and Dark Jedi originated SOMEHOW.
No village, or academy appeared suddenly to teach them how to use inherent abilities.
Someone FIGURED IT OUT.
Weather they went to a place that was strong in the Force and had a vision or they simply and childishly "willed" something to happen.
Both are acceptable. Anakin after all was the only human to race a pod racer.
He had "Jedi Like" reflexes as an UNTRAINED brat.
We also have an advantage. Most people in this timeline KNOW about Jedi.
They have heard about their abilities. Many have even seen their abilities.
If I "feel an inner glow" and am a little bit faster than most, more agile, more accurate, and can pilot my speeder like a pro with no training I MIGHT just start suspecting.
So now I suspect, and I remember hearing about a Jedi running like the wind.
So I try, and Try and TRY and damnit, I just beat a Cu-Pa in a foot race....
Sorry about the scattered thoughts. What do you guys think?
Luse
Ex-Master Bounty Hunter, 23 confirmed Jedi Kills
Ex-Mad Bomber
Soon to be Force User
Message Edited by Lusiphur69 on 01-14-2005 06:38 PM
Everitt_Cage
Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:21 am
#35
"Sorry about the scattered thoughts. What do you guys think?
What is a Jedi?
Is it someone who is Force Sensitive? no
Is it someone who can USE the force? no
You did not earn the title unless you went through one of the academies thatwere in existence OR had a JEDI KNIGHT take you as his Padawan."
Well, from what I've seen, Im thinking your not really a Jedi, and technically considered part of the Order until your a Knight. For example, in ep V, Luke had already been Obi-Wan's 'padawan' as well as Yoda's, however when he faced Vader, Vader told him "The force is with you young skywalker, but your not a Jedi yet". Its kind of like the police academy. While your in the academy your doing things police do, but your not actualy a policeman until you finish your training, and a padawan hasnt finished his formal training until being granted the rank of Knight.
"There are those that will argue that you need either an academy or a mentor to learn force abilities.
I would disagree.
Jedi and Dark Jedi originated SOMEHOW.
No village, or academy appeared suddenly to teach them how to use inherent abilities.
Someone FIGURED IT OUT.
Weather they went to a place that was strong in the Force and had a vision or they simply and childishly "willed" something to happen.
Both are acceptable. Anakin after all was the only human to race a pod racer.
He had "Jedi Like" reflexes as an UNTRAINED brat.
We also have an advantage. Most people in this timeline KNOW about Jedi.
They have heard about their abilities. Many have even seen their abilities.
If I "feel an inner glow" and am a little bit faster than most, more agile, more accurate, and can pilot my speeder like a pro with no training I MIGHT just start suspecting.
So now I suspect, and I remember hearing about a Jedi running like the wind.
So I try, and Try and TRY and damnit, I just beat a Cu-Pa in a foot race...."
I disagree here. Jedi, as WE know them,are the current evolution of an Order so old its origins are unknown. All their current knowledge and teachings are derived from thousands of years of knowledge. Its like how all the technological advancements that have been made in the 20th century couldnt have come about w/out the thousands of years of knowledge which led up to them. Somone could not arrive, on their own, at anything near the level of power or even control of the force we see Jedi have in the movies, as somone starting with no knowledge or experience of the force couldnt possibly gain the thousands of years worth of experience the Jedi Order has gained and implemented into the teachings they use for their modern day students, in one life-time. Having SLIGHTLY enhanced reaction times and skills are completly different from the fighting styles and force powers which the Jedi and Sith use, which, as I said, have evolved over thousands of years.
Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 01-14-2005 11:22 PM
Chroma_Key
Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:37 am
#36
Everitt_Cage wrote:
An edge? Do you mean in fighting? If so, then no.
"Is the Dark Side stronger?"
"No... hm, mmm but easier and more seductive."
Of course in the movies Maul, Dooku and Vader beat the good guys. They were "finished templates" of the quickest path! Neither Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin or Luke where equal in "level".
Remember Yoda? After 900 years of training he was superior in the Force to Dooku, be that fighting, force, anything.
I am not suggesting Light Jedi should grind for 900 hundred years... Just reflect the fact that the dark side is easier and in the end reward the light jedi by giving them an edge.
I100% agree with Lusiphur69. Also the Imperial Inquisitors are not knights. They don't even craft their own lightsaber... It is given to them by the Emperor.This solution respects Yoda's statement, even though the Expanded Universe does not.
But this is not a discussion whether SWG should use EU material or not. It already does and it is a fact, and I am glad for it.
Everitt_Cage
Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:47 am
#37
"Is the Dark Side stronger?"
"No... hm, mmm but easier and more seductive."
Of course in the movies Maul, Dooku and Vader beat the good guys. They were "finished templates" of the quickest path! Neither Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin or Luke where equal in "level".
Remember Yoda? After 900 years of training he was superior in the Force to Dooku, be that fighting, force, anything.
I am not suggesting Light Jedi should grind for 900 hundred years... Just reflect the fact that the dark side is easier and in the end reward the light jedi by giving them an edge.
Hmh, thats kind of humorous. "Finished templates"? Qui-Gon was a Jedi Master and Darth Maul was a Sith padawan. Its not the the Sith in the movies had "finished templates" and the Jedi they fought didnt, its that their templates were designed differently. The Jedi of that era needed no training in fighting other people with lightsabers, as the Sith had been gone for 1000 years. The only enemies they faced used blasters and their fighting styles were molded towards fighting that way. The Sith had been practicing their lightsaber combat in hiding because they anticipated their eventual conflict with the Jedi, so when it came about, they were better lightsaber fighters. But if the edge you speak of(which is your justification for making it harder to become a light Jedi) is NOT fighting, then I ask you again, as you havent answered yet, what is it?
Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 01-15-2005 08:29 AM
Chroma_Key
Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:41 am
#38
There is no such thing as a sith padawan. There are only 2 sithlords.
Everitt_Cage
Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:51 am
#39
"There is no such thing as a sith padawan. There are only 2 sithlords."
I was putting it in terms of this game. Sidious is the master, Maul was the apprentice. And that is exactly the same relationship Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had. "Padawan" is just the Jedi term for a Master's apprentice, so I made no incorrect statment.Did you actualy not see that a padawan and an apprentice are the same thing or were you just trying to point out my using a 'wrong' title for Darth Maul?(Just curious) And once again, you have avoided explaining the reason(the supposed "edge") a light Jedi will have which justifies making their path much harder.
Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 01-15-2005 10:09 AM