Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: DEVELOPMENT SUGGESTION Seriously Dev's you really want to read this...
Frankly Evayy I have never had that happen on the Live Servers. I have experienced that on the Test Servers and in Beta though. I know it happens in Live, but from experience and heresay I have to believe that it's just not that common.
Like you Evayy I spend lots of time elsewhere as well. Were it not for KOTOR2 and the last movie coming out I'd probably never came back to this subpar product. But sadly it's a monopoly and there are no other options than this one for an on-going game.
Message Edited by Walwyn on 06-16-2005 08:01 PM
Arexen,
Good post. Yes I do get hot under the collar when I try to make a suggestion to have those who frankly I view as Lemmings just come out and go all pro-Dev/Game when the overwhelming majority of people know this game has a lot of problems.
And I know I shouldn't allow myself to blast them, but frankly there is only so many ignorant comments I have thrown my way before I unload. Though I should just ignore them I know.
Yes there will always be a certain amount of experience required to gain to grow in power. Got that. And I have said repeatedly I think that Jedi should take a long time to master. But I think and are in agreement about how the Developers put it into the game was extremely poor and I'd say lazy on their part. There was no thought put into if it'd be fun. Nor that only the power-gamers would achieve Jedi and how bad that is for an MMORPG community.
I am sorry to come across as harsh, I don't mean to. I am truly just angry at the being lied to by the Development staff who made such a huge point of saying that the Jedi Revamp was going to do away with the Grind and go to a quest based system.
All those who *CLAIM* to have been around since the beginning and DO NOT REMEMBER that need to do a little research.
I am also offended by the comment that ALL MMORPG's are about Grind. That couldn't be further from the truth. Yes all MMORPG's require you to earn experience. Every RP game requires that. We all know that.
However in every other MMORPG you have enough mix and content involved to not always feel like it's a grind. Again I will point to EQ2 as it's one of the NEWEST and biggest names in the MMORPG venue. That game requires massive amount of experience. And yes everyone once in a while you'll get to a point where you need a couple thousand more experience for the next level and you'll be between quests. So yes you go out and grind out some creatures to the next level. Most people then have something else already planned to do, another quest opens up or some such. The real GRIND for sake of GRIND only in EQ2 is related to Guild Status. That is truly just raw grinding. But it's only a requirement of Guild Patron's not everyone.
SWG is based purely like Guild Status in EQ2. GRIND ONLY. The quests tend to give little rewards, Credits or decorative items only. From the start they wanted the Player Crafted items to be the best in the game so I get why the Quest rewards aren'tgreat items, but why don't they give you Experience? Cause it's only about Grinding to succeed. You throw in the fact that the head of development makes a huge POST and also tells Stratic at an IRC chat that the New Jedi system will be primarily Quest driven and you end up with only one conclussion the dude flat out lied to us. If that doesn't make you mad... ugh... Do you have bone or all cartlidge?
I pick EQ2 for another reason it's also a SOE product. You'dthink that someone at SWG would have made a call to someone at EQ2 and at some point communicated with each other. That clearly did not happen.
mebach0709 wrote:
I'm sorry you feel so negatively towards this game. It's still a great game. Even better then launch. Have you never played FFXI? That game is total grind. Then you have to grind for gil. Comparing the Jedi grind to the grind of FFXI...I'd take SWG 100/100 times. EQ was all grind unless thousands of players were wrong who say that. Grinding is just leveling. Getting Jedi is just like leveing. Therefore MMOs are grinding. It's simple. If you need more explanation just ask.
You seem to still think that EVERYONE is supposed to be able to play Jedi. That is your biggest flaw in your plan. Jedi isn't made for everyone. It's made for the people who devote the time to unlock it. Sure you can hang out with friends, or you can play SWG. It's all how you want to spend your time. Most people can work, spend time with friends, and still unlock Jedi. Or are all the people who have unlocked it the people with no lives?
Like I said, you are made because I disagree with your simple quest based system. It's to easy. If you make it so if you fail the quest once then you have to start over or something, or you get 3 fails then that would be fine. But the Devs don't want people to get Jedi so easily. Waiting 6 months is long, not hard. And why are you mad? The devs made getting Jedi quest based. Each 3 weeks you do a quest, and then you unlock a branch. Did you think you were going to get Jedi without having to do some grinding? It's laughable.
You want your cake and you want to eat it too. That isn't how life is. You work for what you want. Do you try and change your job at work? I bet your bosses will love that. "But I don't want to work hard sir! I just want my paycheck at the end of the week!"
No offense, but I've heard this arguement over and over and, although it's true that some people simply work harder, thats not what this thread is about. It's about replacing the EXP-grind with a totally 100% quest-based grind. This has nothing to do with making Jedi easier, in fact it would make it harder. Hope this clarifies things.
Arexen,
Thank you for explaining that for me! You pretty much nailed it on the head.
What bugs me is how the other guypercieves things. He has said he enjoys grinding so for him a Quest system would be a penalty, however, from reading these forums for the past 2 years there is an overwhelming majority who completely disagree with him.
It really wouldn't change the difficulty to go to a fully Quest based system as I have suggested. They could make the Quests more difficult the higher up the tree you went. So in my one example I mention Survival 4the level of the creatures attacking could be significant, also the # of creatures, and whether or not you could do it grouped.
It could very well hinge more on player SKILL or LUCK (making that Sense Luck Tree valuable!)that the Grind system can never do. Anyone with a 50 IQ can figure out how to go out and kill stuff over and over and over and over. You could train a chimp to do it I suspect. However, making quests of various difficulty would interject player SKILL, LUCK and KNOWLEDGE.
And that is something Grinders NEVER WANT TO HAPPEN. They realize that if its skill based most of them will be sorely out-classed.
Well thanks again Arexen. You give me a sigh of relief!
Message Edited by Taidean on 06-16-2005 04:01 PM
Message Edited by DiggyNO on 06-17-2005 09:04 AM
Russ,
Some good suggestions. My suggested pathtakes approximately 26 weeks opposed to the current system of 16 or less. The timer would would only need to be on the NPC's that gave training, e.g. they won't train you in your next FS skill boxuntil one week has passed since you were last trained. That guarantees that becoming Jedi will take 26 weeks with no way to speed it up other than boxes already recieved.
The only things they really would need to add are some NPC's for my system. While I do advocate instanced zones it really isn't necessary in my system. Though the Trails on Kasshyk <sp> are instanced so they have the technology available.
In my suggested system they could simply have you go after already existing creatures that are hurting livestock or people, or bring back already existant items. Though I think setting up at least one instanced zone per planet would not be that difficult.
Let's face it there were lots of great ideas they could have come up with, but instead they were lazy and chose grinding. It's really quite sad that they spent so many millions of dollars and years of development to come up with lets have them kill a million Pikets to become Jedi. Sad and lazy.
personally though the idea shows thought . . . . I kinda think that although it would take longer . . . it would be easier in the long run. I understand about the the quests getting more difficult for higher ranks in a branch . . . but like what was mentioned, quests generate guides . . . which make quests easier. I liked the Survival example though . . but what stops your friends from going into the cave with you and killing all the creatures? You survived so you get credit right? But you really didn't do anything. This works right now with the some of the badges you need to become FS. I'm a dancer but I have 3 corvette badges . . . did I really earn them . .. not really . . . (thank you Mr Jedi person who helped me) but I did die up there . . . twice 
I look at the grind in kinda a different light. Most of the combat stuff requires combatXP so . . . . a jedi must learn to protect himself and others . . . therefore you must hone your combat skillsand practice . . alot. This could translate as . . . "you must make hurtons and endangered species" but in the long haul . . youare still honing your combat skills which you improve by buying the FS boxes and getting the bonuses.To make it really tough . . . the preffered weapon of the Jedi is a melee one . . . so make it so only melee type (and combat) XP trades in That'll make the brawlers happy now that they lost the KD in lunge. lol
PS - if you flame me Walwyn . . I'll hate you forever 
. . . or until I take my nap and forget about this thread 
As to your points I can see what your saying. I disagree obviously. There are Guides right now on this forum on how to Grind out your experience. You can simply get in a group and throw a grenade every few minutes and cap your experience in a pretty quick amount of time. If I wanted to make 6,000 Speederbikes I could be through all the FS Craft tree experience in a week easy.
The Grind system does nothing you think it does. It doesn't slow anyone down. It's not hard or thoughtful in anway shape or form. It's simple. It'spainfully simple actually. It's just long, boring and tedious.
So the argument about there being a GUIDE or Walkthrough is moot. It's a joke of an argument actually when you can see 500 Guide/Walkthrough on the forums RIGHT NOW to tell you exactly how to grind out your Grind experience in a week. So saying that because someone can use a Guide/Walk through will make it too easy is just silly.
The PURE MOTIVATION behind the Development staff and they have said this in interviews on several occassions, was to keep the Jedi population small and have the process be time consuming to ensure that Jedi will remain rare.
FIRST they have been an abysmal failure on all aspects of that ideology. I can't swing a dead huurton in a Starport without hitting a half dozen Jedi. If I swing a Piket I am going to hit a solid dozen easy!
SECOND my proposed system would ensure that it will take 26 weeks for every Jedi to be created. From a business standpoint thats GOLDEN! That's a customer for 26 weeks! That's half a year! That's a lot of money when you figure in the numbers involved.
THIRD in my system every player, power or casual, can see a little bit of success every single week to keep them involved and keep their hopes up of one day actually achieving their Goals. KEEPING THEIR MORAL UP will keep them PLAYING the game, which will KEEP THEM PAYING THE SUBSCRIPTION FEE. And if you don't think it's all about the Subscription fee for this development staff you are a delusional meat bag who needs to be locked in a padded room for life!
FORTH the power gamers would STILL have a HUGE advantage over the casual player!!!! Why? or How? Because once they get through their 26 weeks they will be able to GRIND their way to Master about a 1,000 faster pace then the causal gamer. It's sad, but you're never going to stop the Power-gamer from being a head. However, at least the casual gamer will feel like they aren't wasting their money every month being the fodder that the power gamers trample over. They will have that little success each week for 26 weeks. Then once they become Jedi they know going in they are going to have a long road to travel and the power gamer will have an advantage. But I bet you they'd be a lot happier then they currently are!