Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: Solo Groups
Moonsword wrote:
I think it is a good way that these solo groups will vanish and people go for real groups with teamwork in which they do not need to buff anymore.
I want to see groups again in which tanks, ranged fighters Medics and Docs and CM fight close together in a team without paying 15K for buffs before they start hunting. So it was at the beginning of SWG and I want to have it again.
The solo groups are responsibel for two things:
1.) They had a very negativ effect on the economy...and were the main reason for the inflation.
My char (Master TK, master Swordsman, master brawler) did Rancor missions on Darth (40K credits each mission) and earned million credits in some hours....that could not be the right way. Therefore I stoped playing my other char (Master Armorsmith) because I earned much more money with my fighter.
2.) Solo-Hunting, full buffed in composite is very very very boring!!
Even when you would like to play in a small group you couldn't do it in the past. This is because the payout for each group member is far less then it is in a solo group because the price was divided between all group members. Therefore real groups with teamwork got discriminated against solo-groups. The "real-group players" may not even have the oppertunity to buy an ubese armor because all the solo-groups have raised the prices for all things including armor enormously.
What will happen now....?
Soon the fighters won't have so much money like they had before the solo-group-nerf and are forced to work together with others in a group because doc-buffs will get too expensive for them.
Then doctors will recognize that they do not earn as much as before because their prices are too high and they will lower them. I guess a lot of them will more enjoy to fight in a group taking the part as a healer then sitting in Coronet on the floor selling buffs. (After some time more and more feighters will use the buff-service again but they will search now more often for the help of a team.)
Btw. I also hope that the efficency of buffs will be lowered. It is silly that it is no problem for a mortal to kill 10 Rancors at the same time without getting a scratch. => Swordsman/Medic/TK + buffs = half god
Message Edited by Moonsword on 11-30-2004 02:08 AM
Message Edited by Moonsword on 11-30-2004 02:10 AM
For every good group I've been in, I've seen 3 other groups that have "Mr. @sshat" in them.
You know the guy...hits the lair while everyone else is working on the mobs, or he spams "I jjump on your head" 10 billion times.
No thanks, either way I'll still solo for XP. If I want group content I'll grab some buddies and head to the corvette, or the DWB. Besides, If I was to group for this I wouldn't get Jedi til' 2020.
This example shows that there is absolutely too much money in the economy. For solo-fighters it's like playing and winning games of chances every day. They don't need to earn money, they simply have it Message Edited by Moonsword on 11-30-2004 06:01 AM
Moonsword wrote:
I think it is a good way that these solo groups will vanish and people go for real groups with teamwork in which they do not need to buff anymore.
I want to see groups again in which tanks, ranged fighters Medics and Docs and CM fight close together in a team without paying 15K for buffs before they start hunting. So it was at the beginning of SWG and I want to have it again.
The solo groups are responsibel for two things:
1.) They had a very negativ effect on the economy...and were the main reason for the inflation.
My char (Master TK, master Swordsman, master brawler) did Rancor missions on Darth (40K credits each mission) and earned million credits in some hours....that could not be the right way. Therefore I stoped playing my other char (Master Armorsmith) because I earned much more money with my fighter.
2.) Solo-Hunting, full buffed in composite is very very very boring!!
Even when you would like to play in a small group you couldn't do it in the past. This is because the payout for each group member is far less then it is in a solo group because the price was divided between all group members. Therefore real groups with teamwork got discriminated against solo-groups. The "real-group players" may not even have the oppertunity to buy an ubese armor because all the solo-groups have raised the prices for all things including armor enormously.
*edit*
first thing i would like to address is the reason for inflation. the reason crafted items are priced high is because it costs a lot to run a harvestor, it takes a lot of player time to make the schematics items whatever inducing more factory expense and time for the most part. if your talking about the prices people are asking for looted items... no one forcing you to buy a piece of loot when you can go get it yourself. loot will ALWAYS bring premium prices.
for example if the money in the system deflates by 50% and the prices people ask for that ube pistol drop by 50% how did that lower the actual value of the item?? the price is still the same in relation to the value of the credit. eventually people will have less credits to spend and this will make the individual credit chip worth more so the prices will drop on things that are looted but the cost of crafted items will remain the same since the costs of creating items running harvestors and paying for factories is a static cost and has not been changed to reflect the lack of money flowing into the system.
in effect the prices of crafted items in value will rise dramatically while loot prices will fall and the effect will be to hurt crafters in a huge way. it is going to be very damn difficult in a few months to find people willing to sell crafted goods at a price people can afford due to this enourmous nerf to non-jtl players.
the problem is not the solo group missions. it is the lack of things to do. people group and go solo to get the highest difficulty missions they can. those missions are still pathetically easy. so instead of encouraging grouping by making the missions harder or making it so that it takes multiple people to damage a lair SOE's huge "intelligent" decision is to ham-handedly nerf the payouts... even if you can find one of your precious groups to go out after a rancor lair it wont last long when it takes 2 hours to go to every single lair for every person in the group just to gather 30k creds. coulda done that yourself running 3-4 lower difficulty but insanely boring missions all by yourself.
personally i enjoyed solo groups because there were people to talk to while i fought critters. now... tisnt much left. SOE has managed to kill the LAST bit of content left in the ground game without putting something in it's place first. this new loot revamp isnt content its just junk that is a pain in the butt to delete. junk still drops for quests that no longer exist.
overall this is a huge blow to SWG and unless the dev's wise up soon a ton of people are going to leave over this for games in which they can accumulate wealth. this is a mistake on the proportions of neville chamberlain saying hitler wasnt interested in the rhine...
Capt wrote:
True, I'll give that - although, you've also got to weigh the costs in how much longer it takes to kill the creature for that extra XP.
Oh, and it does work - the droid has no effect on the mission.
Higher level droids (good combat) may help improve missions too. That will have to wait until sometime tomorrow for me to check
Doesn't take me long to kill a lair of Huurton Stalkers, even pitching 3 stacks of C12s at the first spawn. I don't believe I can get good Stalker missions without a group, so with no group, I'm back to quenkers or other things worth about half the XP each and with only half the number of creatures per lair. So, I'd have to do about 4x the number of lairs to get the same XP. Luckily, I found a group easily last night, and I hope that trend continues, though I will have to do something else to support my grenade habit.
Barb-Wire wrote:
The reason crafted items are priced high is because it costs a lot to run a harvestor, it takes a lot of player time to make the schematics items whatever inducing more factory expense and time for the most part.
This is not true. The high prices are due to the reduced value of the credit, not the cost or effort of producing the items. I play on Infinity. For a long time it was one of the cheapest servers probably due to having missed a lot of the credit dupes (It's the newest server). As solo groups were discovered the cost of items steadily rose and we are now one of the most expensive servers. The cost of creating items in terms of credits and time did not change, but huge amounts of credits were added to the economy, devaluing the credit. Cost per unit of resources is approximately 0.4 CPU for a non-static miner using Heavy Mining Installations and Fusion Generators. Factory costs usually average out to less than 100 credits per item, including subcomponents (approx 65 credits per hour, most items take 5 minutes or less).
EnigmaBSc
EnigmaBSc wrote:
Barb-Wire wrote:
The reason crafted items are priced high is because it costs a lot to run a harvestor, it takes a lot of player time to make the schematics items whatever inducing more factory expense and time for the most part.
This is not true. The high prices are due to the reduced value of the credit, not the cost or effort of producing the items. I play on Infinity. For a long time it was one of the cheapest servers probably due to having missed a lot of the credit dupes (It's the newest server). As solo groups were discovered the cost of items steadily rose and we are now one of the most expensive servers. The cost of creating items in terms of credits and time did not change, but huge amounts of credits were added to the economy, devaluing the credit. Cost per unit of resources is approximately 0.4 CPU for a non-static miner using Heavy Mining Installations and Fusion Generators. Factory costs usually average out to less than 100 credits per item, including subcomponents (approx 65 credits per hour, most items take 5 minutes or less).
EnigmaBSc
Yep, solo groups are money fountains.
This has nothing to do with earning money or economoy....it is like if someone would print 100 Billionen US dollars and give it to every US inhabitant...you can be sure that most of the prices will raise dramatically in short time.
allgoodnamestaken wrote:I can still make 500k/buff set easy.Anyone, even non TKM can push through missions fast now. Ungrouped you can pull 10k+ missions in an Improved Job market, meaning that while you are not getting the full 30-40k it is still very possible to pull in more than enough credits. That is unless you are in the habit of paying of paying the big$ for armour that you are going to grind in.When doing missions with anything but grenades I have always fought unarmoured, so the only decay I occured is on my grinding weapons(and armour if toss grenades). Nothing has changed for me, no great nerf bat was swung.I will continue to pay 10-15k for buffs because it only takes 1.5 missions at most to recup the cost, which as I'm all sure we can agree with, is nothing. Crafters charge as much they can because the market lets them do so.
And this just proves that the group change did nothing to stop people from making money, they just do it alone instead of a nice chatty group. I've even heard some people just kill the lair, ignoring the creatures, and move on to the next one, just to do it quicker to just make the money.
Again, for me it's not the money, it's the missions I can pull for XP in a group. If I need money, I'll do solo missions for the same amount I was getting for my XP missions (I did Huurton Stalkers for 12k in an Improved Market, I can do solo 10k missions faster if I want money, but I won't get as much XP).
Maybe that's the real reason for the group change. Reduces the XP people get for the FS grind if people no longer group because of less money.
Barb-Wire wrote:
So your saying your time and effort to master the skill and maintain those skill points, your efforts of tracking down the resources planting harvestors the purchasing of harvestors, the loading of your lots with harvestors that you could be using for other things is of no value but the maintanance cost of running harvestors??
That's not what I'm saying at all. You made a statement (I'll quote it again just to make sure we're on the same page): "The reason crafted items are priced high is because it costs a lot to run a harvestor, it takes a lot of player time to make the schematics items whatever inducing more factory expense and time for the most part". This was part of a statement that prices for crafted goods would not go down with the reduced number of credits in circulation due to the Solo Group 'nerf': "...so the prices will drop on things that are looted but the cost of crafted items will remain the same since the costs of creating items running harvestors and paying for factories is a static cost and has not been changed to reflect the lack of money flowing into the system".
My counter-assertion was that the static costs - Mining Installation & factory maintenance - were a small proportion of the current cost of items and that therefore there was definite leeway for prices of crafted goods to move with a change in the economy, as has been witnessed in the past.
Barb-Wire wrote:
My time in game is of value to me that is what people are paying for when i choose to craft an item. i harvest my own resources and i charge a base flat fee of 4cpu for crafted items plus markup depending on how intensively used the resources are.
On top of that some resources with most excellent stats may spawn once in a year the value for such resources is higher since only a limited number of items maybe created with them. if you wish to sell your time for .65cpu thats up to you...
You seem to acknowledge this point here. The price you charge is more based on what you feel your time is worth, not the absolute costs of crafting. If the number of credits in circulation are reduced and the credit becomes more valuable you can reduce your absolute profit margin yet retain the same 'value' of profit, since the 200k you make in sales now have exactly the same value as the 400k credits you made in sales before, when the credit was worth less since they were easier to obtain.
Barb-Wire wrote:
But there is more to it than straight maintanence costs but that is a large part. try planting 8 harvestors and then having the resource shift on you a few hours later.
I keep a close watch on resource shifts, so fortunately that has never happened to me. I do sympathise with those who have suffered from it though!
Barb-Wire wrote:
Or try being forced to plant harvestors on a 35% resource concentration because all else has either been paved over or is in a no-build zone.
Being on probably the least populated planet of the least populated server definitely does have its advantages.
Barb-Wire wrote:
Try spending an entire day looking for a even a half decent resource concentration.
Been there, well half a day at least. Definitely sympathise with that one!
Barb-Wire wrote:
There is much more involved than straight cpu costs. all this is figured into why people charge what they charge.
Indeed, which was exactly the point I was trying to make before. All I was trying to say was that you were wrong in asserting that the price of crafted goods would not change with a reduction in the value of the credit.
Barb-Wire wrote:
The price of resources for grind quality started at about 2 CPU and its still 2 cpu.
I've seen the price of grind resources on Infinity rise from 2 CPU to 3 CPU. With a reduction in the value of the credit it's possible that increase will be reversed and we'll get back to 2 CPU.
Barb-Wire wrote:
But really i dont know why i am bothering if people want to tank the economy i dont really care it will just make my creds and stockpiled resources worth that much more. dunno why i am even bothering.
EnigmaBSc
DRWolfe wrote:
allgoodnamestaken wrote:
I can still make 500k/buff set easy.
Anyone, even non TKM can push through missions fast now. Ungrouped you can pull 10k+ missions in an Improved Job market, meaning that while you are not getting the full 30-40k it is still very possible to pull in more than enough credits. That is unless you are in the habit of paying of paying the big$ for armour that you are going to grind in.
When doing missions with anything but grenades I have always fought unarmoured, so the only decay I occured is on my grinding weapons(and armour if toss grenades). Nothing has changed for me, no great nerf bat was swung.
I will continue to pay 10-15k for buffs because it only takes 1.5 missions at most to recup the cost, which as I'm all sure we can agree with, is nothing. Crafters charge as much they can because the market lets them do so.
And this just proves that the group change did nothing to stop people from making money, they just do it alone instead of a nice chatty group. I've even heard some people just kill the lair, ignoring the creatures, and move on to the next one, just to do it quicker to just make the money.
Again, for me it's not the money, it's the missions I can pull for XP in a group. If I need money, I'll do solo missions for the same amount I was getting for my XP missions (I did Huurton Stalkers for 12k in an Improved Market, I can do solo 10k missions faster if I want money, but I won't get as much XP).
Maybe that's the real reason for the group change. Reduces the XP people get for the FS grind if people no longer group because of less money.
. I imagine there are still going to be groups running, purely for xp purposes. People change templates, others are new and some will be still doing the FS grind.
allgoodnamestaken wrote:
DRWolfe wrote:
allgoodnamestaken wrote:I can still make 500k/buff set easy.Anyone, even non TKM can push through missions fast now. Ungrouped you can pull 10k+ missions in an Improved Job market, meaning that while you are not getting the full 30-40k it is still very possible to pull in more than enough credits. That is unless you are in the habit of paying of paying the big$ for armour that you are going to grind in.When doing missions with anything but grenades I have always fought unarmoured, so the only decay I occured is on my grinding weapons(and armour if toss grenades). Nothing has changed for me, no great nerf bat was swung.I will continue to pay 10-15k for buffs because it only takes 1.5 missions at most to recup the cost, which as I'm all sure we can agree with, is nothing. Crafters charge as much they can because the market lets them do so.
And this just proves that the group change did nothing to stop people from making money, they just do it alone instead of a nice chatty group. I've even heard some people just kill the lair, ignoring the creatures, and move on to the next one, just to do it quicker to just make the money.
Again, for me it's not the money, it's the missions I can pull for XP in a group. If I need money, I'll do solo missions for the same amount I was getting for my XP missions (I did Huurton Stalkers for 12k in an Improved Market, I can do solo 10k missions faster if I want money, but I won't get as much XP).
Maybe that's the real reason for the group change. Reduces the XP people get for the FS grind if people no longer group because of less money.Not really, grouped with my Probot Combat Droid I was still bring in 47-4900 xp per kill (The group I was in got disbanded right after I closed the mission terminal :robotmad
I don't mean for the XP group bonus, I mean for pulling the higher-level missions like Huurton Stalkers with 15 creatures per lair.
Message Edited by tHeRaBiDmOnKeY on 11-30-2004 08:21 PM
