Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: Keep the village lose the grind....
FlogTheJedi wrote:
I'd like to chime in here and say that grinding is not the same as difficulty. The path to Jedi could be just as time consuming, but infinitely more difficult and rewarding. Imagine if instead of killing 28,000 bols you had to do dozens of increasingly difficult quests that require teamwork, a thought out, coherent strategy, and a good deal of planning and time. In my opinion, grinding is nothing more than a placeholder for difficulty. Grinding is where the devs get lazy, and skimp on content in favor of an artificial time sink. The devs weren't smart enough, or wouldn't work hard enough to give us a rewarding and difficult path to Jedi, so instead we get a grind, devoid of content or even character advancement.
Nobody who proposes the "long-hard-complex-quests-instead-of-grinding" path to Jedi has obviously ever worked/dabbled in game development or modding. You're proposing content that would take an average player 3-4 months to complete. Most single player games are finished in 20-40 hours of gameplay, and take 3 years to develop. You're suggesting they create enough content to be the roughequivalent to 5-10 full single player games.
Go download Kaneva (a free MMORPG-creation tool) and try it,or design and build a mapfor UT2004 or Half-Life. Get 3dsmax or Mayaandmodel, skin,rig, and animate a new character. Learn how DIFFICULT it can be to create successful game content,not to mention content that cannot be exploited or short-circuited,before calling the devs "lazy". 
Ordu wrote:
Like I said I am putting my money where my mouth is. You can tell the players that want Jedi but do not want to spend their time grinding to jedi that is should be hard blah blah blah all you want but you know what when we all leave the game you will get to be a Jedi all by yourself.
Maybe WoW spoiled me when I got used to being able to solo or maybe it was when I was playing before the CU when I could don my Ubese armor get in a solo group, for higher payout missions, then go kill pickets all day long and get lots of exp and lots of money. Oh and having lots of fun.
Enjoy your Jedi since after this month until they remove the grind from Jedi I shall not return and I urge everyone who is sick of the grind do the same and play a game where FUN is focus not grinding millions of exp from thousands of random creatures.
Peace and the flame suit worked nothing you said made me wanted to grind more or keep playing this game. Just shows how inept the community is about what others might want from a game.
I have tons of fun and i will never go jedi. Go explore the planets, might be surprised at what you find. Have you ever seen the flower on tatooine? Or how about the hermit on naboo liviing in a lean-to? Or how about the destroyed ATAT on dantooine? Wait, how about burst running past the lvl 500 aggro jedi guardians at the enclaves? Oooo, how about getting all the trophy creatures? Or have you erased all your planet actions and do all the NPC quests over again, such as the hunting trophy from the guy in Espa, and redo the scythe schematic quest from Entha? Have you done the blue rug adheasive quest?Have you gotten 20k for killing two tuskens?
If you say there is no content in game, i sorely disagree. There is a ton to do, just gotta get away from dant and the MO to find it. SWG isn't SWG: Piket edition. There is more out there than pikets and bols to the north. Try roleplaying for a while, its kinda fun with people who know how to do it. Ortake noobs out and teach them the proper way to hunt in agroup. Everyone hates the noob who continously hits the lair. Go out and find the Acklay, gorax, ancient krayt, and the other badge-ridden creatures out there. There is way too much in this game than pikets and bols.
As I will say again, get away from the MO for a while and see what the universe of SWG has to offer.
Message Edited by SyVirus on 09-14-2005 10:17 AM
UTech wrote:
FlogTheJedi wrote:
I'd like to chime in here and say that grinding is not the same as difficulty. The path to Jedi could be just as time consuming, but infinitely more difficult and rewarding. Imagine if instead of killing 28,000 bols you had to do dozens of increasingly difficult quests that require teamwork, a thought out, coherent strategy, and a good deal of planning and time. In my opinion, grinding is nothing more than a placeholder for difficulty. Grinding is where the devs get lazy, and skimp on content in favor of an artificial time sink. The devs weren't smart enough, or wouldn't work hard enough to give us a rewarding and difficult path to Jedi, so instead we get a grind, devoid of content or even character advancement.
Nobody who proposes the "long-hard-complex-quests-instead-of-grinding" path to Jedi has obviously ever worked/dabbled in game development or modding. You're proposing content that would take an average player 3-4 months to complete. Most single player games are finished in 20-40 hours of gameplay, and take 3 years to develop. You're suggesting they create enough content to be the roughequivalent to 5-10 full single player games.
Go download Kaneva (a free MMORPG-creation tool) and try it,or design and build a mapfor UT2004 or Half-Life. Get 3dsmax or Mayaandmodel, skin,rig, and animate a new character. Learn how DIFFICULT it can be to create successful game content,not to mention content that cannot be exploited or short-circuited,before calling the devs "lazy".
Wait, so you're telling me that I have to be a professional mmorpg developer to criticize the obvious lack of thought that has gone into the Jedi grind? If that's true then I can't criticize the president, the bus driver that drove me to work this morning, or anyone else except... well me. Besides that utter dearth of logic, I'd like to point out that some games are quest-centric, such as WoW. The quests in WoW range from the simple "collect xxx of this item" to the elaborate, involving game dynamics that are leaps and bounds ahead of anything you see in SWG.
lspiderl wrote:
i dont mind the wait or the grind for jedi but i personal dont want to BE a jedi and i dont like the fact that unless i become a jedi i cant get the second free charicter
they should give us and option to say do all the glowy stuff and all the unlocks (no boxes filled ) and choose to never become a jedi and instead get our free alt
then if sometime in the future u decided to go jedi u would have to delete your alt and do like a special LOOONNNNGGGGG quest to reopen ur ability to "touch the force"
The alt exists ONLY to give one a break from the long jedi grind once you get the saber, by allowing you to play a non-jedi toon...period. For everyone that continously preaches they want the alt w/o the jedi, you're simply missing the point. The alt does not exist to allow you to run two non-jedi toons so you can double your SP w/o buying the second account.
If you want the alt, get it the same way everyone else does, by being jedi...
FlogTheJedi wrote:
Wait, so you're telling me that I have to be a professional mmorpg developer to criticize the obvious lack of thought that has gone into the Jedi grind? If that's true then I can't criticize the president, the bus driver that drove me to work this morning, or anyone else except... well me. Besides that utter dearth of logic, I'd like to point out that some games are quest-centric, such as WoW. The quests in WoW range from the simple "collect xxx of this item" to the elaborate, involving game dynamics that are leaps and bounds ahead of anything you see in SWG.
Now, I'm not saying SWG should be WoW, but that character advancement can be content and quest driven, and it is possible to devise very difficult quests that not everyone can complete with ease.
That's NOT what I said. What I said was that you are asking for enough content to keep you busy for months, without realizing just how long it would take to develop those assets. I suggested you try it just to get a taste of how long it would take. I wouldn't expect you to find logic in something you mis-read. However in one thing you are correct.. you must first understand a job or process before you can criticize the way someone else goes about doing it. The President? I would hope any contemporary adult would have a minimal grasp of national and international politics and policy, thus giving you some grounding in an opinion on how well he does his job. A bus driver? Certainly if you can drive then you cangrasp his or herwork-a-day treadmill. Can you criticize a virulent-disease pathologist for how (s)he goes about his/her job? An astronaut? A fighter pilot? A neurologist? I cannot, because I have no training or background in these jobs or how they are accomplished. Can you?
As for WoW? The most prevalent comments I've heard about that game is it doesn't hold your interest for long, once you've done all the quests in a month or two.
Ordu wrote:
Enjoy your Jedi since after this month until they remove the grind from Jedi I shall not return and I urge everyone who is sick of the grind do the same and play a game where FUN is focus not grinding millions of exp from thousands of random creatures.
Ordu wrote:
It is not about the alt or about exploring the game. The point of the post was to show that grinding a profession that has become common place in the game should not be. If jedi were to be hard or rare they would be that way rather it is just a way to get people to play the game longer and pay more money. If all they want is money take the grind out and timegate the whole process. This would probably bring new players since the fun would be put back in the game. Worst thing ever to happen to SWG was the addition of the Jedi.
Well I was responding to the poster who made a statement about the alt.
However, to your point, one thing just occured to me...why should they take the "grind" aspect away from jedi and not the other professions? Are you saying that for every other profession I should have to grind, but for jedi it should be totally different?
I happen to like the idea of a quest based system, (and yes, I'd support quests even if they took twice as long, as long as they were interesting and I had fun doing them), but believe it should be spread out to all the professions, (or at least have them be a combination of things).
Face it, grinding is a way of life for SOE, however it would be cool to be able to have some of the XP be quest based as well as grinding...(i.e. to be an armorsmith, one should have to run something like the DWB, etc.). Yeah that's an entire different set of issues, but it would be quite fun!
In the end, if you're simply become yet one more poster who is threatening to quit because they don't like the grind...well then there's really not much any of us can do for you, and I don't believe the devs will listen...(unless, of course, this new Trials of Obi-Wan focuses on the FRS/jedi system)...
If not, well then I guess it's Hasta LaVista baby, and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out! 