Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: The Village is flawed
JediMalek
Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:07 pm
#15
To start off with why they would train imperials is that if those imperials were caught training to become a jedi, they would be in a ot of trouble from the empire and Darth Vader would probably kill them. Secondly the Jedi are rebulding the council and cant just let anyone into the enclaves, by becoming a knight you would be proving yourself worthy of being trusted to enter the enclaves
Everitt_Cage
Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:33 pm
#16
To start off with why they would train imperials is that if those imperials were caught training to become a jedi, they would be in a ot of trouble from the empire and Darth Vader would probably kill them.
Uh huh...So this is why dark jedi knights cannot enter the imperial retreat and stand in Vader or the Emperor's face? 
Secondly the Jedi are rebulding the council and cant just let anyone into the enclaves, by becoming a knight you would be proving yourself worthy of being trusted to enter the enclaves
Hmm...thats possible I suppose, but as I stated earlier, if your trying to become a Jedi or a Dark Jedi, it makes little sense to go to a village and train under force sensitive refugees if there is already a Jedi and Dark Jedi temple(enclave) in existence where you should be able to go train under masters. Also, anyone below the level of Knight could easily be killed by people in the enclave if it turned out they were there for some decietful reason...
JediMalek
Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:41 pm
#17
Well look at it this way, you dont know where the enclaves are. So you need to be contacted by them, and they arent going to just contact anyone. If you were rebuilding a way of life wouldnt you want it to be strong? And for sure sith wouldnt recruit weak useless jedi. So the village makes plenty of sense. They attune you to the force and you become strong enough to where the council(s) feel your presence in the force and contact you. If you read the message you get for the knight trials it says that they have sensed your presence in the force becoming stronger and stronger. So the village is necessary to get to the enclaves.
Everitt_Cage
Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:52 pm
#18
Ok, another reasonable point. Lets say, however, you seek the enclaves out(or stumble across them while exploring Yavin IV), or do know where they are(easy enough to find out, I can mail you a wp to both of them and I'm not a knight 
) Whats the explanation for why they wont take you in and train you if your glowing with the force? Would they rather you leave and possibly turn to the dark(or light) side of the force and perhaps be a future enemy? And theres still no explanation for why Imperials are trained at the village(they dont become enemies of the Empire or rebels after becoming dark jedi, the village has simply created a very powerful imperial, the people that drove them into hiding)
) Whats the explanation for why they wont take you in and train you if your glowing with the force? Would they rather you leave and possibly turn to the dark(or light) side of the force and perhaps be a future enemy? And theres still no explanation for why Imperials are trained at the village(they dont become enemies of the Empire or rebels after becoming dark jedi, the village has simply created a very powerful imperial, the people that drove them into hiding)
JediMalek
Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:01 pm
#19
I guess you make a good point of it not making sense of them not training you when you are glowy. But they are rebuilding everything from the ashes that vader left them in. so doesnt it make sense for them to not just take in anyone. I suppose they do give them a chance to become an enemy but also they could just be too weak at that point in time to be considered worthy of training. They could see you as more of an inconvienience than a powerful allie.
JediMalek
Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:10 pm
#20
I just want to add that your idea of actually having to have a master and being taught by one is a great idea. But if you think about it thats where roleplaying comes in. If you just find yourself a knight then you can fight besides him (or her) and he (or she) would be your master. Something a few jedi have been doing on radiant.
MinimeAbala
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:12 am
#21
^^^ true, i plan on doing stuff like that if possible when i unlock, but it would still be nice to have a master/padawan relationship to where your master or padawan didnt cause visibility.
TheRealRedi
Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:56 am
#22
I would guess, and this is only a guess mind you, that if the Devs hold much stock in the RP side of things, as they initially appeared to with the Cries of Alderaan and Dead eye and all that, then sometime in the future (whether they decide to move the story line on or not) PC Jedi masters will be able to take on Padawan learners.
I still have a problem with two Jedi fighting in a city, and NOT seeing every single trooper within imperial radio comm distance on his way to slay the Jedi's arse. Obi-Wan and Yoda survived, yes - Obi-Wan, no idea how. We know he falsified his name (a bit, but i reckon i'd have still been sus of the fella if i was an imp), but it doesnt explain much else of how he avoided the clean up, other than his hermit like status. Yoda's survival was touched upon when Luke returned to Dagobah, to reenter the cave, whereit was so dark in the Force, itwas overwhelming. The theory was put forward that maybe there was an immensly dark presence there, and the intensity of it in some way shielded Yodas presence in the Force. Can't remember where exactly that happened in the EU, but im pretty sure it was in the NJO series.
Whatever it was, it doesnt clean up the question of relevance to the story/timelines and the soft treatment of Jedi. Yeah, you got the BHs to hassle them, but it seems they are the only ones interested. If the villiage was something that moved about - more a travelling community, like the Ryn - then maybe that would appease my geeky-gripe about all this, but no idea.
Why can't Vader get off of his arse once ina while and go out after the highest trained Jedi? If i was Master, or close to becoming, or even just powerful enough in the force, then no matter how careful you are with your force powers you might still have to snarf a mug of Lum, as the Cap'n Big&Dark wanders into the cantina on a "tip off"
Im big on immersion, so the more RP and "off-the-cuff" NON-COMBAT events will always be a bigger draw for me than some droid invasion. It would make for some amazing scenes if every now and then an Imperial patrol with his high-sithness himself at the front, decided to sweep a town of Jedi, and keep an eye out for trouble starting rebels... like me 
UnknownX11
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:32 pm
#23
Well, actually Vader is after Malichae as well, the Sith agents are trying to invade the village, so the Villagers will take whatever help they can get even if it is imperial.Obviously,all of this is better than grinding 32 professions though.
Mafuw
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:48 pm
#24
Not 100% false...
But making all imp dark jedi is stupid Should be 2 factions for jedi, light and dark... Light being allied with rebels but ennemies with imp and dark jedi, dark jedi are everyone's ennemies...
Should be 2 factions for jedi, light and dark... Light being allied with rebels but ennemies with imp and dark jedi, dark jedi are everyone's ennemies...Yes, at this point of the storyline, there are some "dark jedi" (eperor's hands) allied with the empire, but they are only a few... Empire wanna kill all the jedi, except the very few who are under their control
Edit : BTW, it's with Thrawn that Luke wonders how Yoda could stay hidden, because he wonders how joruus could stay hidden too
Message Edited by Mafuw on 01-17-2005 11:51 AM
demolition32
Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:19 pm
#25
Corran Horn was able to hold in his force presence so that he was undetectable, i assume that is what Obi-wan did while hiding on tat
Yoda obviously could have held his in as well, but because of the dark side cave he didnt necisarily have to
as for the enclaves
the jedi would probably turn them away for fear of training them at an older age and having them turn to the dark side as Anakin did.
and the dark jedi would feel them too weak to bother with
Everitt_Cage
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:34 pm
#26
Corran Horn was able to hold in his force presence so that he was undetectable, i assume that is what Obi-wan did while hiding on tat. Yoda obviously could have held his in as well, but because of the dark side cave he didnt necisarily have to
See, heres the problem. It seems that Jedi MIGHT be able to hide their presence, but its not a fact. Its never been stated in the movies. In fact, The emperor and Vader sensed Luke(who apparently wasnt able to do so...)
"There is a great disturbance in the force."
"I have felt it also, Master"
"We have a new enemy. Luke Skywalker..."
"We have a new enemy. Luke Skywalker..."
Now, we know that the SITH can hide their presence from the Jedi, but thats only because the dark side of the force can cloud the light like a shroud, making it hard to 'see' the truth. Light, however, doesnt 'cloud' darkness, so like I said, its not certain if Jedi can hide theirselves in the force like Sith can. Its quite possible that, like Luke, the Emperor and Vader knew of Obi-Wan and Yoda's existence, but were merely not able to find their location(after all, the galaxy is a big place...)
as for the enclaves
the jedi would probably turn them away for fear of training them at an older age and having them turn to the dark side as Anakin did.
Eh. These Jedi's very existence, according to the movies, is an error, so theres no explanation for why they turn anyone away. Remember, GL wrote the story and that means he wrote the line that Yoda said about Luke being the last Jedi. Either he's right about how his own story goes(how could he not be?) or the EU writers are right in saying he was wrong by writing about the existence of other Jedi during this time which blatently contradicts Yoda. Yoda isnt the kind of person not to know what he's talking about, and for that matter neither is GL when it comes to his story. If Yoda knew he and Ben survived, why would he make a statement saying that NO other jedi could have possibly survived either unless he knew what he was talking about.If we obviously are going to have an error in the story, these Jedi existing in this time period, why not have a system that makes sense: being trained by real Jedi or dark Jedi instead of force sensitive refugees who train rebels and imperials alike(even though imperials are their enemies)?
and the dark jedi would feel them too weak to bother with
Actualy, it seems much more like the dark side to use them to serve their purpose and let them be destroyed in the processor later destroy them theirselves after that purpose is served.
Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 01-17-2005 06:35 PM