Fencer Archive
Thread: The Future of Fencer: Your thoughts?
M0G4N wrote:FENCER WEAPONS AND CERTIFICATION:
For this section I would like to make note that I have given it considerable thought, and tried tying in all ideas I am aware of together. I believe that the issue of our weapons is not in the fact that we lack content, just that we lack usefulness. So I have rearranged the weapons a bit, as well as gotten rid of any form of non-sword object. In the end, I am very happy with it, and I honestly hope to see some aspects of it to come in to fruition.
- At the end of each of the following sections, I will also list the IDEAL states of whatever weapons that have been mentioned. The HAM costs listed are based on the current HAM system, and are subject to change under the new HAM system; though they are still they are still IMO an efficient example of what the ratios between the HAM costs of the various weapons should be. The key for the unsliced weapon statsis : WeaponName: Armor Rating Speed Damage Range Ideal Accuracy HAM
Noobie Weapons: For those who aren't even a brawler, the stone knife would be the 1-handed weapon of choice.
- Stone Knife: AP0 2.5 15-50 +1 5/10/5
Beginner Weapons: I have a major issue in the fact that the early fencer weapons are rendered useless when one has a speed sliced higher-tier weapon and makes good use of berserk. To deal with this issue, I suggest a combination in which the damage reduction for an uncertified weapon is increased, and that the lower tier weapons are simply made more useful. Upon deciding that novice brawler is for you, the 1-handed representative would then be the survival knife, with sufficient speed, damage and HAM costs to make it to the first tier. At the First tier in the brawler tree,you are introduced to the sword, with similar speed and HAM costs to the survival knife, but with a little more damage output.
- Survival Knife: AP0 2.5 25-75 +1 5/10/5
- Sword: AP0 2.8 50-100 +1 10/15/10
Intermediate Weapons: The second tier in the brawler tree for 1-handed weapons would then provide the choice of either the dagger or the curved sword. The dagger option provides speed, accuracyand lower HAM costs, while the curved sword is for additional damage.
- Dagger: AP0 2.2 35-90 +9 10/15/10
- Curved Sword: AP0 2.8 75-170 +3 25/35/25
Advanced Weapons: The third tier of the brawler tree expands upon the choice of the second tier, in that you are now given the option of vibroblade orryyk. The vibroblade is the choice for speed, accuracyand lower HAM costs, as well as having light armour piercing, while theryyk is the absolute heavy hitter of the fencing profession (replacing the gaffi stick). The fourth tier of the brawler tree is home to the now craftable rantok sword, which has been bestowed the gifts of stun damage (good bye stun stick).
- Vibroblade: AP1 2.5 50-150 +9 15/25/15
- Ryyk Blade: AP0 3.5 150-250 +1 45/30/20
- Rantok Sword: AP02.6 90-160 +3 25/25/40
Fencer Weapons I (novice): At novice fencer, we are given our first new weapon, in the form of vibrosabre. The main usefulness of this is in that it isvery similar tothe curved sword in terms of speed, damage, accuracy and HAM costs, but with light armor piercing.
- Vibrosabre: AP1 2.8 80-180 +5 25/35/25
Fencer Weapons II (defence): Now these are not to be used as weapons, but I would really like to see the inclusion of shields for the fencer class in a future patch. There would be two shields (names to be determined),one at the advanced finesse level and the other at the master finesse level, and will provide 5% and 15% damage reductions (subject to change, but definitely to both melee and ranged attacks) respectively, at some cost to speed, accuracyand HAM. The shield will be equipable with any single 1-handed weapon.
- Shield 1: 2 x (speed)||| (accuracy) - 3||| 1.5 x (H/A/M)
- Shield 2: 2 x (speed)||| (accuracy) - 3||| 1.5 x (H/A/M)
Fencer Weapons III (expert): At the expert level of the remaining 3 fencer trees, we are given certifications to very nice treats.
Fencer Weapons III.a (new resistance): At expert stances and grips, we are given another new weapon in the form of the rapier. The significance of it would be that it has light armor piercing, and does damage to some other resistance than kinetic or stun (I would prefer blast or fire, but it really doesn't matter, itspurpose is for variety)
- Rapier: AP1 3.3 110-170 +3 35/45/35
Fencer Weapons III.b (dual wielding): My method of approaching the most necessary dual wielding is that instead of having 2 of the same weapon and equipping them both, one should have to acquire a newitem thatis essentiallythe dual blades together, similar to the dual Berettas from the resident evil series. The formula for the cost of dual weapons should be that they arearound 1.3x as slow, with accuracy unchanged, around 1.3x the HAM costs, and the damage increase is dependent on the type of weapon being dual-wielded. At expert footwork, we are given dual rantok blades; the catch is that they are now given light armor piercing, with minimal damage increases. At the expert technique level, we are given dual vibroblades; they still have light armor piercing, but with a considerable damage increase.
- Dual Rantok Swords: AP1 3.5 105-180 +3 35/35/50
- Dual Vibroblades: AP1 3.0 100-175 +9 25/35/25
Fencer Weapons IV (master): At the master fencer level, we are given what we have all been waiting for...MEDIUM armor piercing, in the form of dual vibrosabres. The HAM and speed costs should change according to the aforementioned "formula",and the damage should be a significant increase over its solo predecessor.
- Dual Vibrosabres: AP2 4.0 130-220 +5 35/45/35
Hope it helps! Have fun with it Raphayl
i like the idea of duel weapons at high levels of certification, however, theres no stun baton, or duel curved swords
Ok, so I know I've already posted here, but it was towards the end of a 60 hr work week and I didn't have time to think too much. Anyways, from my personal opinion and from posts I've read, here is how the fencer profession should be:
1. Fastest speed / lowest damage ... the fencer relies on their quickness rather than their brute strength to overcome their opponent. (Think of the priest from 'Count of Monte Cristo', "speed of hand") I think this is pretty much already implemented, but the speed cap is an annoying detriment.
2. Finesse ... because of the speed, the fencer is very nimble on his feet and performs his moves much like a choreographed dance or ballet. Ok, so this isn't as important, but it would be kinda cool to have some animations that displayed this finesse we have. I think the fencer should be the hardest melee opponent to hit, though, and we should stand out as such.
3. Taunting ... the fencer is in complete control of his opponent, but will at times taunt him by letting him free for a bit before slicing him back wear he is wanted. (Again think of CoMC where Fernon keeps Edmond trapped in his house while the 'police' arrive) I like the idea of a series of low damage hits with an ever so often critical strike. An old Merry Melodis song comes to mind: da da da da da ... SLICE SLICE, SLICE SLICE ... da da da da da SLICE SLICE, SLICE SLICE ... anyways.
4. One-handed axe ... ok, so I agree with the tomahawk idea. But why not, Mel Gibson sure used it well in 'The Patriot.' What would be even cooler is if we could actually throw it as a special ranged attack just for the fencer profession. To keep people from overusing this move, they would have to go retrieve their thrown weapon before they can throw it, or even use it again. So if there were two opponents, one up close and one in the distance, you could throw the tomahawk at the distant one, then whip out the curved sword to deal with the one up close. Prolly never gonna happen, but I can dream can't I? 
5. Duel weapons ... I think this is the greatest idea ever. If this were implemented, I could role-play Benjamin Martin with a tomahawk and a dagger going against a darn redcoat with a curved sword and short sword. Ok, so I like 'The Patriot.' In fact I like all movies with some well choreographed duels. As I mentionned before, I think duel weapons could be best implemented by initially being a first tier skill, but with extreme damage or accuracy mods to the weapon in the off-hand (2nd weapon equipped). As the tiers are climbed, the mods becomes less and less extreme until it is near minimal at Blademaster. Or the actual damage done to an opponent is the average of the damages done by the two weapons if you were using them alone. That way, the duel weapons would add nothing to battle except looking really cool.
Faslik wrote:
i like the idea of duel weapons at high levels of certification, however, theres no stun baton, or duel curved swords
I purposely eliminated the stun baton and gave purpose to the rantok sword, so for the dual stun damage, the dual rantoks will suffice. as for the curved swords, there really wouldn't be a place for them, as they would pretty much be equal to the new ryyk blade (bye bye gaffi)as far as my numbers go, just with different HAM costs.
hmm, before i start, raph, i think you should know that me and most other fencers trust that you will do and get what us fencers need, not what all of these **edit** holocron fencers want.
i think the fencer profession should be all about speed and form. Our strikes shouldn't neccisarily deal HUGE amounts of damage, but should more hit the target in his weak spot repetedly. So our specials should be designed more towards changing a target's posture and attacking his health more than anything else.
Also, it seems that, since we are more designed for speed, our defenses should be designed more towards dodging and counter-attacking a target then anything else.
Just some ideas...
What should be special or unique about Fencers that set them apart from the other 3 melee professions?
Fencers should be the 1v1 masters. We should get positive bonuses in battle when we are attacked by one creature/npc/player, and get negative bonuses when we are attacked by 3 or more things. This means that a fencer would defeat things easier in a 1v1 situation but have trouble when we are swarmed by 3 or more attackers. Fencers are true 1v1 masters so they should also be 1v1 masters in the game.
What should be the "basic flavor" of Fencer special attacks?
Fencers should be the fastest fighters in the game. We should have specials that help us in a 1v1 situation like delaying a person from attacking, various status effects, and specials that prevent kiting (various posture change attacks or kds). We should not have any AOE attacks because fencers should not be able to take on more than 3 attackers at a time. Our real strength lies within our ablity to take down single targets with ease. Since we are not to strong attackers, our specials should pinpoint on the weaknesses of our enemy. Have attacks that go through holes in a person's armor or attacks that reduce the damage done by the oppenent. Instead of out-damaging an opponent, fencers should beat an opponent by weakening the attack, defense, to-hit, dodge, counter-attack, etc.
What kind or style of weapons would you like to see Fencers use?
Blades, Swords, Axes, anything cooler than a butterknife
Do you have ideas for how future certifications should be spread out?
I like the way how it is now, maybe add a new weapon for each tree and have a master weapon at master.
What kind of group role should a Fencer typically serve?
We should be the tank, the person that uses his skills to weaken the opponent so that other members of the group can defeat the opponent easier. Fencers should find 1 target and bring it down rather than jumping from target to target or area attacking many targets.
What kind of battlefield (mass PvP) role should a Fencer hold?
Assassin. Close in on the leader of the opponent's group or the opponent that will most likely do heavy damage to your allies. In a large battle, we should be the support troops. Since we should not be able to take on more than one opponent, fencers should stick back while the other brawlers take most of the damage and look for the right moment to strike.
What kind of HAM cost dispersal should a Fencer's weapon typically have?
Low Health,Low Action, Medium Mind
What kind of utilities would you like to see Fencer's have?
(Just a cool move that I think fencers should have. Dont know if the Devs can do this, but it will be a thing that seperates us from the rest of the professions)
Stalk - A ability that lets a fencer close in on a chosen target, without the target knowing whats coming.
In PvE - A fencer should use this command on a target and bring it down without making the friends of the target knowing.
In PvP or GCW - A fencer can use stalk on a player opponent without the target knowing.
When both the fencer and target are overt, stalk will let the fencer turn into a blue dot on radar and is unattackable until he/she reaches 25m from the opponent. *Note: Master Sharpshooters will unmask the fencer from stalk when the fencer is within 35m of the sharpshooter*
Once the fencer is 25m from his/her prey, they will turn red on radar and can be attacked. *Note: The fencer can be attacked by any other overt of the opposite faction except for the one he/she is stalking.*
Rules of Stalk
1. The effectiveness and countdown timer for stalk will rise as the fencer goes up from a novice to master level
2. The fencer may not stalk
- Master Combat Medics
- Master Rangers
- Master Bounty Hunters
*Note: Master Squadleaders can be stalked by a fencer (even when they are in a group)*
3. Covert faction members may not use the stalk command
4. Stalk will not work on a group if a Master Ranger is in the opposing factions group *Note: The Master Ranger must not be incapped or dead for this rule to apply.* *Sidenote: Every group member must be within 30m of the Master Ranger or they will be opened to stalk*
5. Stalk will not work on a group if a Master Squadleader is in the opposing factions group *Note: The Master Squadleader must not be incapped or dead for this rule to apply.* *Sidenote: Every group member must be within 50m of the Master Squadleader or they will be opened to stalk* *Another note: The Master Squadleader will be the only one opened to stalk in the entire group (see #2)*
(Can't let stragglers in the group have the same protection as a group member 1 meter away from the Master Squadleader/Ranger)
Any comments or add-ons to my post is welcome.
Thanx
johnnyboy827
I would like to see a "charge/rush" ability-- maybe a cross between berserk, burst run, and lunge. It wouldn't be limited to a single move like lunge, or a longer duration state with limited use like burstrun, but you would use it in combat against a target.P>
I found myself wanting to fleche a target. There should be a rapid distance traversing move that doesnt use burst run.
satanis wrote:
I found myself wanting to fleche a target. There should be a rapid distance traversing move that doesnt use burst run.
And which also doenst use the HUGE HAM that burts run uses.
Seena
Tomahawks! Whips (perfect for thos kiters)!
Different animations... blind could be dirt or powder in the face. AoE blind = smoke
Position changes .. leg sweeps
Dizzy.. Twirl and stab to midsection followed by punch in face or roundhouse kick to the head.
Defenses should not stack.
/agree on parry and disarm added to defense lines.
i haven't read the whole thread yet, so im sorry if someone already mentioned this.
The way i see it, the fencer is the "rougish" class in the game. We are fast, we dodge, and we don't hit for tons of damage. Im not talkin a backstabber kinda guy here, no way, thats not what this game is, but we should have low HAM cost weapons, be fast and not hit too hard. I beleive the main form ofdefense for the fencer should be his ability to evade attacks. And i don't really see the fencer as being the tank, leave that to the swordsman and such. But we should be able to use our skill and finesse to be able to find the weakness in our opponents. If they wear armor, the fencer should be the one hittin between the armor plates making the armor its self less effective, not useless(unless using a stun baton), but far less effective. Also, the idea of the debuffing effects i like. I also think that the last weapon usable shouldn't be at the novice branch, but there should be all kinds of different types of weapons scattered throughout the fencer tree. These ranging from low damage and quick to higher damage and well... less quick, not necessarily slow though. The role of the fencer in PvE combat should not be the tank in my opinion. Fencers just seem more fragile yet harder to hit than other classes. But i do think that in a one on one combat with a monster, or player for that matter, we shouldn't be useless, we should be able to avoid a large portion of attack and beable to drain away their HAM quickly with very swift blows. In PvP though I can see us as leadin a charge, being able to reach our targets having taken only a reasonable amount of damage, considering we were able to avoid many attacks, and be able to kill a person at a time, or hinder them greatly at least. If under attack from multiple targets we should have a bit more trouble, and most likely not survive(if alone), but we wouldn't go down without a fight we would be able to use some of those debuff effects and render a person or persons far less effective than they were originally. Thats my 2 credits... hope i didn't just ramble on about nothing...
I'm going to try to organize this and make it as legible as possible. Here goes.
Create an Ability Similar to Meditate - I've cried this before and I will cry it again, but of all professions, the Fencer channels the mastery of thought into combat. The attacks are modeled in smilarity to what Sun Tsu described in the epic, "the Art of War", which is what the fencer captivates. It's an art form in it's own and the mind of a Fencer should be a bright one - and in turn, the Fencer should be able to channel this creativity into a wholesome process.
Create lower HAM costs for certain weapons - Certain weapons cost an arm and a leg (literally!) to use. The fencer uses more nimble, small weapons and this is not accurate for what we use. Lower the HAM costs, or make them more action based than what some are (the stun being heavy on the mind, Gaffi on health).
Lower the Dodge Mods, or deal away with pistoleer stacking - This causes a serious imbalance in the game. When someone dodges everything, it takes the fun away. A fencer should be limited to how much he or she could dodge - there's a difference between dodging with a small sidearm and a blunt blade.
Balance the skill tree - A minor calling, but rework the attacks - maybe move the scatter hits in place with the blind hits.
That should about do it! Thanks!