Fencer Archive
Thread: The Future of Fencer: Your thoughts?
the issue challenge idea would be abused thats 100% definate just like citywarn was.
Juddy
Yeah if the devs say they are working toward a more tactical or dynamic combat system, saying things like "fast", "low ham" , "absorb most damage"... will fall on deaf ears.
These ideas dont lead to a dynamic, they are more symantic. IE. if we absorb more damage but do less damage, and a swords do more damage and absorbs less damage, if the classes are balanced, then in the end we are the same thing. The same thing gets accomplished. So in the case i mensioned above, who is the shock trooper? who is the defender? to try to answer these questions will only leaad to a symantic argument. (A good defense is a good offense, or a good offense is a good defense...)
All the melee classes need to be differentiated. They all need to do different stuff. So here is my final word...
Fencers: dual specialists, the best melee class at one vs one combat...
tools needed: lots of non-aoe abilities
1. dodge- we know what this is...
2. block- melee def whatever...we get teh point
3. one hand hit one- hits a random pool
4. one hand hit two- hits one of the two lower ham pools
5. one hand hit three- hits the lowest (or most damaged) ham pool
6. body hit one- lowers thehealth of the opponent
7. body hit two- lowers thestrength and constitutionof the opponent
8. health hit one- bleeds the opponents healthand actionbars
9. health hit two- bleedsthe opponentsstr, con, quick, stam bars
10. scatter hit- hits multiple locations,CAN cause blind, dizzy , and stun
11. pierce- dot; hits add +1 level to the ap value of the weapon used
12. issue challange- the target is driven to attack the fencer (should also work in pvp..)
13. charge- quick burst run
14. spin attack- same
15. trip- opponent cannot run for duration of 20 secs
16. disarm- opponent cannot use the weapon attacked for 10 sec...
17. dual wield- this allows the fencer to do the next two actions qued at the same time, with penelties to hit and damage
other stuff:
bypass armor-as an innate ability fencers look foropenings in armor, and target them. As the fencer improves toward master he/she will find the holes with more frequency
COB- taken in as added as innate.... we all use this all the time anyway...
These abilities do more damage as the fencer increases in experience. IE. no more body hit 1 does more damage than body hit 2. Now the situation will determine when to use body hit one or body hit two... Although i have body hits 1,2, and 3 still in ways of sorts work the current way.
Hey Raph, I have been on vacation and I am sorry I missed the deadline for your info gathering 
Well, I was wondering if my posting would still be of any use, if so, please let me know asap and I'llconjure something upasap 
The "deadline" was more of a "when I was going to begin collecting it" date than a real deadline.
I'll continue collecting it until the Devs tell me to stop bugging them about it. 
Well, thank you for getting back to me as quickly as you did, you wonderful wonderful person.
I would like to forewarn you that I didn't take the time to look through EACH of the previous posts, so there may be overlap. However, I think if an overlap of ideas occurs, perhaps it would indicate the goodness of said idea(s). I apologize in advance also, for any confusion or trouble this may cause. Here it goes:
FENCER SPECIAL ATTACKS:
- The only real problem with the current state of fencer special attacks is that we have 2 area blind attacks; spin attack 2 and blind hit 2. A nice remedy to this would be that the spin attack 2 no longer blinds enemies, and instead does a considerably larger amount of damage, since there would be no incentive to use a stand-alone area attack if you could either blind or dizzy them at the same time; so have spin attack 2 cause thrice as much damage as the dizzy/blind attack 2 (by a combination of increasing the spin attack 2 damage, and reducing the dizzy/blind attack 2 damages).
- A nifty treat would be to make it so that spin attack 2 could be one of those few abilities that you can use without having a target (such as berserk and center of being). The usefulness of this attack would be that when being mobbed, you needn't worry about killing off your target and then re-selecting a new one to spin attack, which in a worst-case scenariocauses death.
- One thing I would like to point out, is that while being my favourite fencer special, the scatter hit series has a minor flaw in its mechanics. My problem is that every once in a while, the scatter hit special turns purely into a body hit or leg hit or head hit (at least,it appears as so). My recommended solution would be to significantly increase the total damage output of the scatter hit series, and evenly spread the damage across all 3 HAMs. Meaning that with every scatter hit, the colour of the amount of delivered damagewould be near-white to white.
- I would also like to note that in being my favourite fencer special and all, the scatter hit series should be the primary and/or defining attack of the fencer class. What I mean is that we should make the scatter hit have 3 steps; 1 learned at 1-handed weapons 1 (in the brawler tree), 1 at novice fencer, and the last one at master fencer. Now, I do not mean to undermine the usefulness of the generic hit ability shared between the melee professions, and would like to see that still have its 3 steps. I suggest that either 1-handed Hit 1 be moved to the same tier as 1-handed body hit 1 or it remain where it is and share with the new location of scatter hit 1,as such, the 1-hand hit 2 and 3 would be moved to the current locations of scatter hit 1 and 2 respectively.
continued on the next post......
Well, I'm retyping as best as I can. The spelling will have depleted, and same with some grammar, due to the fact that I am typing while VERY angry.
FENCER MODS:
- The most prominent issue here is that of the dodge ability of fencers/pistoleers. I do not yet know if it has been done, but these SHOULD NOT stack. They should be independent (in both function and name) and act only when the appropriate weapon is equipped. I do not in any way suggest the removal of the dodge skill mod from either of these profs, as it does seem to fit them both.
- Despite having what some call uber defences, I believe that they could still be better suited for us fencers. Meaning that I am suggesting that we have an increase in our amount of 1-handed melee toughness. It's addition would limit the need for fencers to dabble in other profs to pick up the melee defense mods, and concentrate on other possible dabbling profs (ie scout).
- I must say that I love the great state defences taht we have, just that I would like to see a little more in the form of defence vs. intimidate (possibly 10 points). I very much enjoy the great kd, posture change (down), blind, and dizzy defences, and beg that they remain unaltered...save for any increases.
continued on next post....gah
- The first defining attribute of a fencer without a doubt should be speed. This topic has been talked about for as long as I have been a member, so I will keep it simple and short. FENCERS NEED A LOWER SPEED CAP, the already suggested new speed cap of 0.5seems very adequate.
- The second attribute that makes a fencer is our defence/evasion. Not much improvement needed in either of those fields as long as the other combat professions remain similar to what they currently are. If there are any significant changes to any combat profession, I would like to remind them that we fencers as well as all other combat professions should be balanced accordingly.
- I would like to point out that the ranged defence skill mod should be made similar to the melee defence mod, in that it should both reduce damage incurred, and increase damage avoided (to my understanding, and from much experience, the melee defence mod works in such a manner; while the ranged defence mod only increases damage avoided.
Continued on the next post......
FENCER WEAPONS AND CERTIFICATION:
For this section I would like to make note that I have given it considerable thought, and tried tying in all ideas I am aware of together. I believe that the issue of our weapons is not in the fact that we lack content, just that we lack usefulness. So I have rearranged the weapons a bit, as well as gotten rid of any form of non-sword object. In the end, I am very happy with it, and I honestly hope to see some aspects of it to come in to fruition.
- At the end of each of the following sections, I will also list the IDEAL states of whatever weapons that have been mentioned. The HAM costs listed are based on the current HAM system, and are subject to change under the new HAM system; though they are still they are still IMO an efficient example of what the ratios between the HAM costs of the various weapons should be. The key for the unsliced weapon statsis : WeaponName: Armor Rating Speed Damage Range Ideal Accuracy HAM
Noobie Weapons: For those who aren't even a brawler, the stone knife would be the 1-handed weapon of choice.
- Stone Knife: AP0 2.5 15-50 +1 5/10/5
Beginner Weapons: I have a major issue in the fact that the early fencer weapons are rendered useless when one has a speed sliced higher-tier weapon and makes good use of berserk. To deal with this issue, I suggest a combination in which the damage reduction for an uncertified weapon is increased, and that the lower tier weapons are simply made more useful. Upon deciding that novice brawler is for you, the 1-handed representative would then be the survival knife, with sufficient speed, damage and HAM costs to make it to the first tier. At the First tier in the brawler tree,you are introduced to the sword, with similar speed and HAM costs to the survival knife, but with a little more damage output.
- Survival Knife: AP0 2.5 25-75 +1 5/10/5
- Sword: AP0 2.8 50-100 +1 10/15/10
Intermediate Weapons: The second tier in the brawler tree for 1-handed weapons would then provide the choice of either the dagger or the curved sword. The dagger option provides speed, accuracyand lower HAM costs, while the curved sword is for additional damage.
- Dagger: AP0 2.2 35-90 +9 10/15/10
- Curved Sword: AP0 2.8 75-170 +3 25/35/25
Advanced Weapons: The third tier of the brawler tree expands upon the choice of the second tier, in that you are now given the option of vibroblade orryyk. The vibroblade is the choice for speed, accuracyand lower HAM costs, as well as having light armour piercing, while theryyk is the absolute heavy hitter of the fencing profession (replacing the gaffi stick). The fourth tier of the brawler tree is home to the now craftable rantok sword, which has been bestowed the gifts of stun damage (good bye stun stick).
- Vibroblade: AP1 2.5 50-150 +9 15/25/15
- Ryyk Blade: AP0 3.5 150-250 +1 45/30/20
- Rantok Sword: AP02.6 90-160 +3 25/25/40
Fencer Weapons I (novice): At novice fencer, we are given our first new weapon, in the form of vibrosabre. The main usefulness of this is in that it isvery similar tothe curved sword in terms of speed, damage, accuracy and HAM costs, but with light armor piercing.
- Vibrosabre: AP1 2.8 80-180 +5 25/35/25
Fencer Weapons II (defence): Now these are not to be used as weapons, but I would really like to see the inclusion of shields for the fencer class in a future patch. There would be two shields (names to be determined),one at the advanced finesse level and the other at the master finesse level, and will provide 5% and 15% damage reductions (subject to change, but definitely to both melee and ranged attacks) respectively, at some cost to speed, accuracyand HAM. The shield will be equipable with any single 1-handed weapon.
- Shield 1: 2 x (speed)||| (accuracy) - 3||| 1.5 x (H/A/M)
- Shield 2: 2 x (speed)||| (accuracy) - 3||| 1.5 x (H/A/M)
Fencer Weapons III (expert): At the expert level of the remaining 3 fencer trees, we are given certifications to very nice treats.
Fencer Weapons III.a (new resistance): At expert stances and grips, we are given another new weapon in the form of the rapier. The significance of it would be that it has light armor piercing, and does damage to some other resistance than kinetic or stun (I would prefer blast or fire, but it really doesn't matter, itspurpose is for variety)
- Rapier: AP1 3.3 110-170 +3 35/45/35
Fencer Weapons III.b (dual wielding): My method of approaching the most necessary dual wielding is that instead of having 2 of the same weapon and equipping them both, one should have to acquire a newitem thatis essentiallythe dual blades together, similar to the dual Berettas from the resident evil series. The formula for the cost of dual weapons should be that they arearound 1.3x as slow, with accuracy unchanged, around 1.3x the HAM costs, and the damage increase is dependent on the type of weapon being dual-wielded. At expert footwork, we are given dual rantok blades; the catch is that they are now given light armor piercing, with minimal damage increases. At the expert technique level, we are given dual vibroblades; they still have light armor piercing, but with a considerable damage increase.
- Dual Rantok Swords: AP1 3.5 105-180 +3 35/35/50
- Dual Vibroblades: AP1 3.0 100-175 +9 25/35/25
Fencer Weapons IV (master): At the master fencer level, we are given what we have all been waiting for...MEDIUM armor piercing, in the form of dual vibrosabres. The HAM and speed costs should change according to the aforementioned "formula",and the damage should be a significant increase over its solo predecessor.
- Dual Vibrosabres: AP2 4.0 130-220 +5 35/45/35
Hope it helps! Have fun with it Raphayl
What should be special or unique about Fencers that set them apart from the other 3 melee professions?
- 1 Word : Footwork and Stances/Grips(sorry I never bothered learning to count). In my opinion Fencers should not be stuck with just Dodge Dodge Dodge. I think new abilities, or bonuses to existing abilities(CoB and Berserk mainly) that focus specifically on either dealing fast well aimedblows for better damage output, or ofcourse evading blows to save your butt or just outlast your opponent.
- An ability like Berserk that focuses on accuracy and increasing your attack speed significantly for a short period of time. This is ofcourse a very simple idea and if actually brought into game would have to have much more thought, but its just an idea.
- A defensive stance ability that runs off of a new defensive attribute: PARRY. Parry would not have any effect unless in the defensive stance, but would act as a "Dodge on Crack". So that the ability is not turning the fencer into an invincible killing machine, you would ofcourse either slap on a large negative accuracy bonus(or something else of that nature), or disable attacking altogether while in the defensive stance.The +X to Parry would easy fit in any of the Fencer Trees. Another idea for thisstance would be to add in a Counter Attackability once you reached Master Fencer or there about(Like Force of Will is achieved for TKA). This would allow Fencers to have a small damage output after Mastering the technique of parryinghis/her opponent's attack. Again an ability that would need to be carefully thought out if ever put into the game.
- Another Idea for an Offensive Ability would be a Multi Strike ability. Would be activated like a duration based ability such as Berserk or CoB and would restrict the use of most/all of the Fencers Special attacks, but would give him 2 auto attacks(or more if needed to counter act the penalties of the ability) rather than 1. Again allowing the Fencer to land manyblows in a short amount of time.
What should be the "basic flavor" of Fencer special attacks?
What kind or style of weapons would you like to see Fencers use?
What kind of HAM cost dispersal should a Fencer's weapon typically have?
- In reguards to all 3 questions: Fencer should be geared towards Quick, Precise Thrusts/Stabs or Slices. NOT HEAVY SWINGS. So im my opinion, they would obviously need specials/weapons that focus on speedand absolutely on LOW HAM COSTS due to thelight weight of fencer weapons(I imaginethe weapons would be a lot less taxing than say aPolearm or Power Hammer/Axe).
- Inreguards to Fencer Special attacks: I like the feel of theprofession in the way ofattacksthus far. The bleeds and status affects(blind, dizzy) are nice. But I feel that Fencers definately need a Stun.A quick blow that throws your opponent off guard sorta thing. Another thing that Ifeel needs changing would be the fact that Fencers have 2 AOE Blind attacks, which well....seems pointless. But there ofcourse may be something Im over looking.
- In regaurds to HAM Dispersal: A lot of people seem to be leaning towards action, but with action being similar to endurance that doesn't seem fitting for a fencer(I think its all the rhodians wanting the action
). Mind ofcourse seems fitting assuming that a more tactical approach is needed with a much lighter and/or smaller blade but if I suggesting increasing Mind costs or leaving them where they are I believe not only would every Fencer in SWG punch me in the face, I think Id go head and give myself a good smack as well. That ofcourse leaves Health. And actually with Fencers target HAM pool being health, and the Blade Weaver ideal of using ones body in an elegant fashion during battle, Health seems like a viable answer.
Well at this point Im completely brain dead on ideas. If I can think of anything else that I feel might actually be a helpful suggestion I'll send it your way Raphayl.
Soulrev
Very Simple response.
A). Give us more swords and less sticks as our best weapons.
B). If possible, how about bonuses to dodge and damage avoidance when not wearing armour.
That's about it.
Moy