Fencer Archive
Thread: TKM vs Fencer...
Exterminater
Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:25 pm
#92
Stealer-In wrote:
Winner FENCER
TKM Prep for fight: Lets say the poor tkm is stacked up on synthsteak, 2 brandies, mind buffs, PSG, also stun armor, and a 50-170 VK. health and action buffs too.
FENCER prep for fight: high kenetic 80+ Kenitic comp (4 peice naturally), synthsteak, 2 brandies, mind buffs, 200-400 stun baton. health and action buffs too.
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* How TKM would fight: Start off with intimidate, go for the dizzy, then spam whatever move they feel like.
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* How the FENCER would fight: intimidate, dizzy, lunge, scatterhit2 about 7-8 times(for taking out the steak), followed up by 1handhit3 about 2-6 times
(to finish off the PSG). During that time the tkm would be flopping cause their defenses to lunge and KD are very vulnerable. After that the FENCER would spam bodyhit3.
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* Why TKM would lose: The Fencers synthsteak would last for about 45 seconds with the upkeep of unarmed moves, but since unarmed does kenetic damage that won't really effect the HAM of the fencer (yes even, in the mind there won't be much of a dent there). And by the time the TKM actually takes out the fencers steak, he would be flopping cause of posture change and or KD, and being spammed with Bodyhit3 ( estimated time of staying alive: 20 seconds or less)
ok who would be so stupid equipping a 170 max dam vk. and why can the tk have a weapon thats worth 30k and the fencer one worth millions. and i would NEVER try to kd/dizzy before i put all states, only if i know im fighting a real noob. and ppl with those batons would take 10 mins to kill a tk on his back, and if the tk has some brain he would stand up...
TalusianRogue
Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:33 pm
#93
In all likelyhood, the two combatants would get bored and quit before a winner were found 
DoogieHozer
Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:43 pm
#94
TalusianRogue wrote:
In all likelyhood, the two combatants would get bored and quit before a winner were found
A PvP duelling competition held last year literally died due to audience boredom. Needless to say there won't be another one held.
--doogie
TalusianRogue
Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:48 pm
#95
DoogieHozer wrote:
TalusianRogue wrote:
In all likelyhood, the two combatants would get bored and quit before a winner were found
A PvP duelling competition held last year literally died due to audience boredom. Needless to say there won't be another one held.
--doogie
I found the same thing when I tried to duel my good friend at a recent guild meeting. Folks were like "could you stop? We got crap to do."
SeCKSEgai
Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:12 am
#96
I find it a bit funny that people are flaming each other on this thread. The whole point of the discussion is to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of each profession, and have the posts seem to be irrelevant.
Anyway, as much as I hate def stacking, I do it completely. I've mastered all of the melee profs, and people seem to be unaware of a key factor here. Swords and Pike sacrifice def for damage, as opposed to the two profs in question atm. TK and Fencer are much more defensive oriented, although I'm sure some will disagree.
TK is probably the best profession when it comes to adaptability. TK can attack for all states and pools. TK has the best toughness rating out of all the melee professions and is really a blend of damage and defense. Its meant to dish out a beating whiletaking a bit of one. Fencer is focused a lot more on defense, and finds its success by avoiding damage and frequently landing light damage blows to dwindle a target down.
Granted, while numbers could probably use some tweaking on the skill mods, in the end, a duel winner is not decided by profession alone, as it will always be based on the skill level of the two combatants. As def stacking and combat prof mixing is alive and well, each template has a weakness (although a well thought out stack can minimize those weaknesses). Anyone even quasi-serious about pvp will always have secondary skills to compliment his or her profession, whether it be healing abilities, defensive bonuses, or both.
Experienced TKs are always very challenging, and also fairly frequent since its easily the most common melee combat profession. TK's mitigate dmg better than any other profession with their toughness rating and is the most adaptable of the combat professions. Fencers are great against pikemen and swordsman as they can easily exploit their ability to hit with blind and dodge, but against a tk, blind becomesmuch more limited because of a tk's accuracy rating, almost completely negating a major strength of the fencer skill set, as it lowers a fencer's ability to avoid attacks successfully. A fencer's biggest weakness is the low damage, and must maintain a constant flow of hits to keep the tk from regenerating its pools. Posture down attacks are limited against a tk's combat equilibrium.
In a pure tkm versus a pure fencerbattle, the tkm has a higher likelihood of comming on top, although skill level is a major factor. However, master brawler provides great bonuses to any melee profession, and its additional abilities compliment all professions, especially fencer, quite nicely. The fencer knockdown has seemed to always have a much higher success rate of knockdown for me vs the other profession knockdowns, and without it makes a fencer's ability to do enough damage much more difficult.
And as of the way of dots, I have plenty of mean toys, especially mind fire, but serve no purpose in melee duels as the best dot wins and having the better toy does little to better anyone's skill in combat. I duel not only for fun, but to better understand the strengths and weaknesses of other templates, professions, players, and myself.
However, when it comes to regular pvp combat, faction vs faction, that is a different story as that is war in which the goal is to subdue the enemy by any means neccessary and minimize losses on your own side. Everything goes in war.
Message Edited by SeCKSEgai on 01-18-2005 08:01 AM
Genn-great-Genn
Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:00 am
#97
Savage2005:
''1. Tka will do (if i am correct) 200+250 = 450 kinetic base damage. Base 85 armor, 32% in toughness - other reductions are equal -
Fencer will do 300 stun, 40 stun armor, 45 stun psg basically same as armor almost, (although some things apply before armor does i believe), 57% in toughness
---------------------------------
the reductions are multiplicative not additive.
(1-.85)(1-.32) = .102 or 10.2% damage done = TKM damage to Fencer
(1-.40)(1-.45)(1-.57) = .1419 or 14.19% damage == Fencer damage to TK
dont know where you got your base damages, but on these percents, the fencer is doing 50% more damage to TKM with stun armor and PSG. (if PSG blocks kinetic and fencer has one equipped , then the fencer will have an even greater advantage)''
Wrong, you are forgetting the light armor rating which will reduce fencer damage by another 50%. TKA does more damage in this calculation.
-SilentDeath-
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:08 pm
#98
I was a tkm , master swordsman, and master brawler. I have never lost to a fencer that didnt have horrible evil dots. Otherwise, fencers just tickle and i just put states on them with tk and eat their mind with my uber sycthe/ph =D
comandobob
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:12 am
#99
from my experence im a TKM commando , never lost to a fencer in pVP or duels , used to be fencer and i can beat all ive fought easy enough ever fewncer doc templetes with High damage Batons never had a problem , but saying that i was fencer tkm swordman one time and never lost to a tkm either , it all how you fight really i know tkm very well alway had it since the start and know fencer pretty well to too .
Message Edited by comandobob on 01-20-2005 08:16 AM
MrSemi
Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:06 pm
#100
Infidimihihas beencorrect about fencer versus tka regarding everything he's posted in this thread. With no other fighting skills a TKA will beat a fencer in a duel assuming they're equipped with similar good equipment and no dots are involved. The ability forthe TKAto attack the mind pool exclusively is mainly responsible for this fact.
I know alot of people are against using dots in fight. I use em at every opportunity because even exceptional stun batons will not cut through 39% stun armor, and 45% psg's. I know alot of people will argue this but you've gotta trust me. I want them dead and if it takes a dot to do it I will use 4.
I considered dropping fencer for tka because Tka's can go head to head against a Jedi and last a while but people tend to forget dueling is completely different from pvp. You rarely have an opportunity to go around overt solo and encounter another solo opponent on my server. I choose fencer because dodge against multiple opponents isvital as a doctor. The longer the doc survivesthe more people he helps survive and I don't know of a more defensive profession on its own than fencer.
As far as TKA goes I feel it's much more universal. Meditate, force of will, dizzy kd make an inexperienced player a threat with Tka. If a newer players asks for template advice, I always steer them to TKA.
Richai
Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:02 am
#101
I am a TKM/Pikeman
I have only lost to 2 fencers ever, and that is out of 100's of duels
Once a Fencer is kd/dizzied because they have a toughness of 35 (roughly) tk mind hits can really hurt, even with 80+ comp and intimidate.
However as has been said, bring dots into the equation, and it changes. but for TK vs Fencer ... tk always wins in my experience
K1k1nth3m0uff
Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:46 pm
#102
fencer would win, by far
fencer is just an all around better PvP proffesion
i dont need to explain myself, im master in both, and ive PvPed in both, fencer is better
BizzyNinja
Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:31 pm
#103
K1k1nth3m0uff wrote:fencer would win, by farfencer is just an all around better PvP proffesioni dont need to explain myself, im master in both, and ive PvPed in both, fencer is better
right...
JedKid
Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:48 am
#104
I've faced a few TKA's (not TKM's, TKAs) and they are pretty hard, especially the defense stacking ones. But i've beaten a fewwith mystun baton(im novice fencer mind u).
intimidate
warcry
one-handdizzy1
onehandhit1
Marikk d' Cannith