Fencer Archive

• What should be special or unique about Fencers that set them apart from the other 3 melee professions?

i think that fencers should focus mostly on defence: very high melee and ranged def with a very good dodge and moves who make him harder to hit or debuff opponent, the damage absorpion should not be naturally high and he should relymore on his speed and a good armor.

as offence his weapon should not be very damaging very fast and generally with good HAM cost that permit him to use a lot of specials whitout bothering to much to HAM bars

- precision: a skillfull fencer should be able to chose what ham to hit, so head strikes, and leg strikes should be granted (see below)

- dual wield 2 similar weapons this should have both pro and cons

pro:

more damage, the damage of both weapons is summed (or he can gain a second attack)

specials that can be made with 2 weapons equipped, these specials should be more damaging than the normal ones or maybe hit in different body areas

cons:

less accuracy

slower speed using 2 weapons result in worse speed on both weapons so if damage is added to calculate final damage even speed should be otherwise if the second weapon grant a free attack both weapons should suffer a speed penalty

more ham cost, ham of the 2 weapons should be added when specials are used

recap:

weapon damage: low

weapon speed: fast

DPS: low to medium (medium with dual wield)

melee/ranged defence: high

dodge: high

thoughness: low

HAM cost: low to medium (medium with dual wield heavy 1h weapons)

• What should be the "basic flavor" of Fencer special attacks?

I think fencer special attacks should be focused on lower damage output of the opponent something like

disarm:

the fencer disarm the opponent (check on skills) and if successfull opponent weapon is unequipped and can't be equipped again for 3-10seconds

parry:

a fencer should be able to parry incoming attacks and gain a opportunity attack if successfull my idea is about 3 parry moves: high parry, mid parry, low parry

high parry, cover head area

if an incoming attack is directed to head he avoid damage and gain an attack at 1/2normal speed (still capped at 1) and 2x damage.

if the incoming attack is directed to torso the fencer suffer normal damage

if the incoming attack is directed to leg the fencer is caught off guard and suffer 2x damage

mid parry, cover the torso area

if the incoming attack is directed to head or legs the fencer suffer normal damage

if the incoming attack is directed to torso the fencer parry it and his next attack will be made at 1/2 speed (still capped at 1)

lower parry, cover legs

as high parry but reverse effect

precision:

a fencer should be able to use his speed and precision to chose to damage a specific ham or to hit soft, unarmored spots of his opponent:

- headHit:1.5x damage,high speed, HAM cost (low, low, mid), fencer finesse 2

- leg hit: 1.5x damage, high speed, HAM cost (low, mid, low, fencer finesse 2

- precision strike: his attack is AP2 regardless of weapon used, x3 damage, mid speed, HAM cost (low. mid, high), master level

• What kind or style of weapons would you like to see Fencers use?

mostly swords, and vibro version of them (if applicable)

maybe a whip like weapon with high range 15m but high penality to low range and low damage

in my opinion the most important thing is to have weapons usefull to all levels and to chose them basing on personal style, as it is now we have a best weapon and 2 situational ones, this should not happen, if i like to use a dagger insteadbatoon i should have some benefits and this is not happening right now expecially at master level.

• Do you have ideas for how future certifications should be spread out?

i like to see 'specialization' on weapons when a brawler use a dagger he use it goofy (?) trying to cut his opponent, a master fencer should be able to use his dagger to hit 'soft sports' of his opponent and in a more efficent way

• What kind of group role should a Fencer typically serve?

in group a fencer should be one of the main tanks with his high defence and ability to parry and counterattact, hecould alsobe used as a support to lower opponent damage output (in this case a long range weapon like the whip could be very usefull)

• What kind of battlefield (mass PvP) role should a Fencer hold?

i don't see a fixed role for fencer in a battlefield, basically i see him as a guy who know how to defend himself, he could be usefull in first line for his high defence but is not the guy who run around brandishing his sword over the head slicing all he encounter

the fencer should perform best in 1vs1

• What kind of HAM cost dispersal should a Fencer's weapon typically have?

generally quite low health and mind, low to mid action, cost can go up with dual wield

that's all.... thx for patience and sorry for bad english

• What should be special or unique about Fencers that set them apart from the other 3 melee professions?

I agree with the idea of being crowd control and damage absorbers, and also agree that Fencers should be hardest to hit - lets face it, the 2handed and pike deal with heavy weapons, so they should be easier to hit, and the Brawler/Teras Kasi are more like Boxers - some dodging, but more of a slugfest than anything.

Yet a fencer should have elusiveness as his/her main skill, and also good damage reduction on hits as they advance through the tree, given even a hit isn't likely a "clean" hit, that is, a full on hit. The evasiveness of a fencer lends to the fact there would be more "glancing blows", that only do little damage due to the dexterity of the fencer.

Finally, while I agree that Fencers should do the least damage per blow, they should also be able to deal the most damage "over a set time period", whatever that period is set to be, out of ANY combat class. Think about it - pistols - the fastest standard weapons in the SW universe (standard, not sliced or specially crafted), are not automatic or semi-automatic - a quick fencer with a light sword may not deal as much damage per swing as a pistoleer per bolt of blaster, but should be able to get more swings in that certain period of pre-determined time, thus totalling greater damage. The idea here is to also give the fencer some soloer meaning as well, so that Fencer is not totally meaningless solo, nor ineffective damagewise, comparatively speaking, when in a group assisting. I would say a good period is that in 3-5 minutes is when the threshold of a master fencer's damage should surpass that of the next quickest combat class, whatever it may be. Obviously for a lower level fencer, that time period would be greater, thus increasing worth to master fencer.It also does not remove the fencer's strategic element, as all the previous ideas of fencer as a "set-up man/woman" would still be valid and effective.

• What should be the "basic flavor" of Fencer special attacks?

Graceful and lightning quick. As a fencer progresses, so should the speed of his/her blade. The weapon speed of a fencer should only serve as a beginning point for 1 handed brawlers - once in fencer, modifiers whould even be quicker. I dare say, by the time a fencer reaches master, they should be able to have a blade (maybe this ties in with certifications), which, after modifiers, is less than 1.0 speed (I think 0.5 is good) - the only one that quick in the game, and only at master, with the master certified weapon (more later on that), and again, only due to the modifiers.

• What kind or style of weapons would you like to see Fencers use?

Fencers need more useful long-bladed weapons, and need more AP weapons, although I agree we should get nothing better than Light AP - save the better AP weapons in melee for pikeman and 2 h swords (who should get up to heavy and medium, respectively). At master a new type of weapon should be made available (craftable by armor smiths, but only usable by master fencers), that in a sense is like anti-armor: the ability to add up to maybe 2 or 3 types of effectiveness to it, and it should be a kind of AP1 blade, maybe a vibro-sword, or something. Thus, you can have this "master weapon" made to affect kinetic and say, one of your choosing, be it inflicy energy, stun, heat, cold, electricity, or blast damage. This would help out with the issue of stun layered armor as well, as a master fencer could have several of these weapons at their disposal to find vunerabilities.

Further, for a master weapon, I think a page from RIS should be taken, and a quest for the sword schematic be done rather than just giving a schematic to WS which most would consider useless. The basic idea is this - allowing the fencer to undertake the quest empowers the fencer to get the master's blade - they are not dependant on an WS to "get off their lazy butt" to get the schematic for them. This should not involve as rare of components as RIS to make, as this is meant to be a rare item, but a master's item.

The general idea of the quest is that the Master fencer travels to point X on planet X, to meet a master weaponsmith and fencer NPC. This wizened old one who wields the master's blade gives out tasks for the master fencer to complete, in a theme park style. At the end, the last task is to defeat this ones prized pupil in a fencing contest one on one. Once you win, you get the schematic, which a fencer can give to WS to craft the blade, and I think a badge also - perhaps a special master fencer title as well-.. Also, to make sure a fencer who completes this quest can always have this blade made, the master gives out one schematic until it is gone from the master fencer's inventory, and then Master fencer can always return to visit and get another one, thus making sure none are left SOL in case the first WS who got the schematic leaves the game.

Sorry for the length of that, but I think it would lend a story aspect to fencer that would be downright awesome, and not just hand you a master weapon cert, but make you earn it, with a story too. It would be awesome fencer content.

• Do you have ideas for how future certifications should be spread out?

As a fencer moves from basic 1 handedto fencer to master, here are my thoughts - this assumes that the category known as Finesse currently is renamed Techniques as has been requested by the fencing community, and vice versa:

Gaffi is moved to pole arms where it belongs.

Survival knife - AP0- Novice Brawler

Sword- AP0 - One Handed 1

Curved Sword- AP0 - One Handed 2

Rykk Sword- AP0 - One Handed 3

Rantok Sword- AP0 - One Handed 4 - Make this craftable, with appropriate stats

Vibro Blade- AP1 - Novice Fencer

Cutlass- AP0 - Also Novice Fencer - Higher Damage, slower speed than vibro blade

Stun Baton - AP0 - Stances and Grips 2

VibroRapier- AP1 - Footwork 2 - NEW - Epee-Style weapon, with added vibro for AP damage - very quick weapon

Vibro Cutlass- AP1 - Finesse 2 - NEW - Vibro version of Cutlass

Force Prod- AP0 - Techniques 2 - NEW - Think of Prods like cattle prods, dealing out electric damage like the LLC.

Force Baton- AP1 - Stances and Grips 4 - NEW - Longer Stun Baton, with better reach and damage, sacrifices speed

BloodRazorRapier- AP1 - Footwork 4 - NEW - Epee-Style weapon, made famous by the BloodRazor pirates. An improved Vibro Rapier.

Binayre Cutlass- AP1 - Finesse 4 - NEW - Improved Vibro version of Cutlass - made famous by the Binayre Pirates of Talus.

Force Wand- AP1 - Techniques 4 - NEW - Like the Baton, this is longer, better reach and damage, and less speed

Master's Blade- AP1 - Master Fencer - NEW - The Master Sword as I mentioned previously - deals kinetic, and one other (or maybe 2) damage type chosen by the WS upon creation, which can then be experimented on.

I think that is a full breakdown of weapons, plus the addition of 8 new ones given to Fencers as they progress.

Note: - in the heart of the Fencer trees, aside from Stances and grips where stun is made a priority, and Techniques, where electric damage is made a priority, the main difference between all the AP 1 weapons should be damage and speed, and the type of damage it inflicts

• What kind of group role should a Fencer typically serve?

Fencers should serve as the "quick strike" members of the group, or the "hit and fade" of the group. Kind of like the first waye of fighter planes strafing the targets to soften them up.

• What kind of battlefield (mass PvP) role should a Fencer hold?

Same as above.

• What kind of HAM cost dispersal should a Fencer's weapon typically have?

Because quickness is the ally of fencers, they should have the least HAM cost of anyone. This is a fair trade off given that fencers do the least per-blow damage of the weapon classes, although they do catch up and surpass in damage over time due to their quickness.

• What kind of utilities would you like to see Fencer's have?

Not sure what you mean by that, but if you mean like TKA has meditation, I would like to see something similar for fencer. Not as good as TKA's, but effective. Perhaps a "Concentration" skill in Techniques (currently finesse - it'sthe one branch that requires Combat XP), where the fencer holds his/her sword in salute, and can focus, thus curing them ofDOTeffects, mind stat damage and all stats associated with it, and Battle fatigue slowly, but not health or action. Since its not as good as TKA's, make the healing process quicker. This way, it gets Fencers ready to head back into battle quicker, since they are the "first strike" in a group, in my eyes, given that mind cannot usually be healed in a camp, but wounds can.

That is my vision for fencer - let me know what you think.

Not sure what you mean by that, but if you mean like TKA has meditation, I would like to see something similar for fencer. Not as good as TKA's, but effective. Perhaps a "Concentration" skill in Techniques (currently finesse - it'sthe one branch that requires Combat XP), where the fencer holds his/her sword in salute, and can focus, thus curing them ofDOTeffects, mind stat damage and all stats associated with it, and Battle fatigue slowly, but not health or action. Since its not as good as TKA's, make the healing process quicker. This way, it gets Fencers ready to head back into battle quicker, since they are the "first strike" in a group, in my eyes, given that mind cannot usually be healed in a camp, but wounds can.

I like this idea, Concentration, helps heal our mind faster and boost our mind stats since most of my specials hurt my mind the most.... i think it would be awesome to have something to boost my mind stats and regenrate it faster...

Ok I don't have the time to read all the fantastic ideas that others have posted. However, I just wanna what I think about fencer. Fencer does his job with finesse and style. It often depicts as a confident personality that likes to dance and play around with his opponents, teasing and aggravating them and strike them with one swift blow when they least expected. Thus, they are often called as 'blade dancer'

Fencer also likes to disarm his opponent's weapon, which will provide good addition to fencer moves.

Another move that I would like fencer to have is critical strike, where fencer able to strike an opponent in one swift blow to their weak spot. This could be incorporated to something like knockdown, where the opponent would have a chance to fall down for a certain amount of time. This move maybe obtained when one reaches Blademaster status.

In my opinion, the devs should give each elite brawler profession unique stances and gestures when in combat mode. For example, TKA could have a Bruce lee stance and gesture, heavy swordman would occasionally juggle his sword with two hands and hit the floor, pikeman would occasionally spin his staff to show his skill and fencer would do somersault, play around with his blade and occasionally do a dancing gesture

In conclusion,
-Fencer should be the fastest among the elite brawler, doing the least damage.
-Fencer should not be able to withstand hits, his evasive moves are the key to his survival
-Fencer HAM cost should be very low compared to other elite brawler classes
-Fencer shouldn't have Area of Effect attack as his skills are suited for single opponent.
-Fencer can apply their blades with poison and thus, they should be able to poison his opponent, instead of bleed.

As for weapons, well, I like the vibroblade and vibrosword graphics in KOTOR and I hope the devs could change it.

Thanks

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skexii wrote:
i happen to like the fencer bleeds. Precise deft cuts to certain soft vulnerable parts of the victim to cause bleeding. Poisons? not very honorable if you ask me, I wouldnt use them, but why shouldnt ANY weapon using persona be able to coat their chosen weapon with poison(s)?

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i actually hadnt thought of this until i saw a post here but an idea for a weapon cert that i think would be sooo awesome looking would be a tomahawk

yea and aside from that

our uniqueness - status effects (give us stun in replacemenet for scatter hit)

we should also be the fastest and have the lowest HAM cost

lowest HAM costs since we do specials at a higher rate

"hehe because fencer class often been associated with swashbuckler, thief and other underworld kind of professions. Dagger, blade, kriss, short sword are the kind of weapon that a fencer would likely choose and poison goes quite well with them, not to mention having poison dmg for fencer gives more unique feeling too"

i disagree with the outlook of fencer being the seedy type, like thief....lets leave the poison (and the name) use to smugglers and their ilk. Im not saying its a bad idea. But when I think of fencer, I think of swashbuckling french "all for 1 and 1 for all" musketeers. =) I think of swordswinging dancing antics of "Princess Bride" I understand that in today's vision, the dark forboding character dressed in all black, brandishing the steel sword dripping with green poison goo is far more appealing than the, heroic mindset I envision, but arent you tired of being the bad fencer? (hehe)

COME INTO THE LIGHT CAROL ANNE!!

Sorry if this is redundant, but I would really like to see the use of duel swords. Since the fencer is the ONE-HANDED swordsman, it would make sense to have a sword for each ONE of our hands. Maybe incorporate a duel weapon use in oneof the trees. As in KOTOR, the weapon in the off-hand could be penalized dramatically at first, but the penalty would decrease more and more as the player moves from novice to master.

My second thought: more AP. Small 1-handed swords .... just makes sense that they would pierce right through some of that armor. Of course it makes senser for a pikeman as well, but hey, I'd be willing to share this with them.

Hmm.

--- Disclaimer: a post such as this represents my personal opinion and does not indicate any particular bias that might exist while performing my duties as a correspondent. =-)

Well mostly I'm looking forward to more subtle tweaks at the moment.

• a better speed formula that make sense and makes fast weapons worthwhile


• better weapons and a combat system where more weapons are usefulin a varietydifferent ways


• a better HAM system that makes HAM usage strategic and a "fun" game mechanic


• armor effecting bleeds, hopefully with enough positive changes that fencers will not have to be so dependent on bleeds for dealing damage to heavily armored targets.

In terms of what role a fencer should fill . . .

My first thought is something that is already probably impossible. I think that fencers should have been the high armor-piercing profession. "Fencing" to me conjures an idea of weapons that are very effective at finding holes in armor.

Other thoughts . . .

Making Fencers Fast and Graceful

My second thought is that fencers should be fast and graceful. How can this be realized in game mechanics? First off the speed equation needs to be fixed so that Fencing weapons are actually relatively quick compared to other weapons. One lesson we learned from DAoC however is that front-loading damage can be very powerful (your first attack has 0 delay giving a big advantage to slow weapons with high damage). 1k damage every 10s is nearly twice as effective as 100 damage every 1s over the duration of a 10s fight (2k damage versus 1.1k). Fast fencing attacks isn't meaningful if it just means low damage front-loading and low DPS.One way to make fast weapons effective is to grant additional affects to these weapons. IMO, fencers should lay down significant status effects with their attacks. They should be able to dance around a target quickly dealing a slew of effective disabilities to their opponent. These status affects could be available to other professions as well, but fencers should be the best at applying them via their very quick attacks (and hopefully a relatively high chance of landing these affects). Status affects also strike me as a graceful sort of way to fight too. I would like to see a combat system that includes a lot more strategy implemented through exactly these sorts of attacks. Let's see snare affects, an affect that reduces med effectiveness, slows attack speed, lowers damage, decreases accuracy, etc. Let fencers specialize in these sorts of combat. These should require finesse and as part of this I'd love to see weapon combos and other more complex elements to attacks and special usage.

More Variety for Defenses

The developers have indicated a desire to have strategic combat with give and take and ebb and flow. As part of this I would like to see a more interesting assortment of defenses. Instead of having everyone use CoB, there should be other options. Things like a short-term damage reduction, with a period vulnerability afterwords. Ideally, different melee profesions would receive different variants creating different forms of specialization and variability. I would also like to see more variance in the defensive modifiers. Let fencers have a relatively higher dodge % and more synergy with CoB but at the same time maybe a profession like pikemen should see some other defensive abilities such as some form of damage shield (picture a defensive stance with a whirling polearm that damages any who close to melee distance) that has a high synergy with higher melee toughness. Stuff like that. I'm more enamored with the theory with than with any particular implementation (i.e. it's not so important to me which profession has which specialization just so long as distinct specializations exist).

That's what I've got for now, I'll stop back in if I have any other thoughts.