Fencer Archive
Thread: State of Fencer in PvP
Keltack wrote:
As much as this is a pure flame, I have to agree. I have been a fencer for around a month now, and all I do is PvP (PvE lost its luster long ago). I have discovered that I can last for ever and kill groups of 5 or 6 by myself. If you are a fencer and you are not doing well in PvP you need to do that following: Take synthasteak, make a center macro, get an ackley stun baton.
Personally I think that fencer is the 3rd most overpowered profession in the game (1. CM 2. Rifleman 3. Fencer). If you are not winning you are most likely just not good at the game. Start dueling people and talking to experienced players about strategy. Please don't come here and complain on the forums becuase you are not good at your profession. The potential is there, you just need to learn to use it.
Well, I'll have to say you all are the morons - cuz I never once said I wasn't doing well in PvP.
You need to take some remedial classes in reading comprehension.
All of you.
Seena
ruehs wrote:
Well I'm sorry people, but you guys don't know anything about fencing if you think Kali is a moron. You just happen to be a fencer after the all the changes went in to make us balanced. You all need to grow up and stop flaming someone that know's more about fencing then you ever could think of.
Ruehs, do you honestly think I give a rat's **edit** with mayonaisse if these little boys flame me?
Save your energies for where it counts - keeping the Fencer profession what it's meant to be.
They don't understand it - and yanno what? They aren't *going* to understand it. Hell they couldn't even read a well constructed paragraph and grasp it's basic premise. Not to wonder - their idea of fighting is spamming one hit 3 and super buffs.
Im actually glad that Raphael isn't here any longer... she'd be heartbroken over what's become of this profession.
Seena
Message Edited by KaliMirchi on 05-16-2004 04:18 PM
ruehs wrote:
Well I'm sorry people, but you guys don't know anything about fencing if you think Kali is a moron. You just happen to be a fencer after the all the changes went in to make us balanced. You all need to grow up and stop flaming someone that know's more about fencing then you ever could think of.
I have a fun piece of information for you: I was the 2nd master fencer on gorath server, TheBigDude Lebowski. Took me around 3.5 weeks from game release... no buffs, no stun batons, no good armor, center was broken. I know plenty about fencing, and I know plenty about the history of the profession, which specials were broken, when they were fixed, and how well they were fixed.
Kali, thanks you for calling me a newb, I really appriciate it.
The reason I say you don't know how to play the game is becuase you make rediculous claims about food and BE clothes... take the follow quote from your first post:
Kali, thanks you for calling me a newb, I really appriciate it.
I never called you a noob there sweety - like I said, your reading comprehension skills are pitiful - no matter HOW quickly ya supposedly mastered fencer.
The reason I say you don't know how to play the game is becuase you make rediculous claims about food and BE clothes... take the follow quote from your first post:
I agree with you, food is a truely awesome new tool... but BE clothes have been around since the release of the game and have not changed much at all in quality.
Nope- BUT stack em with BE foods - and they do, don't they. They sure do.
The 2 states that you mention are stun and dizzy so I will start with those. First of all, a fencer doesn't have a special that causes a stunned state, so I don't see the relevance there.
Blind - sorry, you are correct about that. I don't memorize the names of the moves - I just use them.
But, you are able to get +18 defense vs. stun in a BE shirt. I have worn +25 total in defense vs stun for a long time and I still get stunned every time I get hit with last ditch. There is no clothing that gives you defense vs dizzy, ithorian mist gives you up to +23 defense vs dizzy if made by a very good chef with the best resources (at least on tempest server), a downside is that it is a drink and has 19 fill which will screw up the cycling of 2 brandys.
Ya don't need brandys with mind buffs, now do you? No - ya don't. And, if ya stack other dizzy defenses WITH that +23 in food - well, you can attain a pretty high dizzy defense. I don't use the stuff - does it stack like the brandy? If it does - your argument is REALLYshot to **edit**.
The advent of food is far more benficial to fencers then it was hurtful. Pikata Pie can reach stats of +51% chance to dodge... combine that with center and synthasteak and you become an unstopable tank.
We aren't meant to be an "unstoppable tank". No matter how much you l33T sUxoRz fools want to make us one.
Fencers are one of 3 professions which are lucky enough to have a stun weapon. If armor is 90% kinetic that means it is 90% base eff, meaning it doesn't matter if you are kinetic, blast, restraint, whatever... stun is in fact the ONLY damage type that is not able to reach 90% in armor... so what are you complaining about again?
Complaining? No - i was making a commentary on the state of the Fencing Profession. Please refer to my recommendations to you about your lack of reading comprehension skills.
Like I said in my above post, I am not one for flaming... but I hate when ignorant people blame game mechanics for thier own lack of skill. The point is that fencers can still apply thier states... there is no food or BE clothing that effects fencer KD which is done with lunge1, a posture down attack. If you would like to learn more about game mechanics and tactics feel free to send me a PM, but please take your worthlesswhining off of the fencer boards.
You can sit there and shoot off about my supposed lack of skills - but it rings just as hollow as the rest of your drivel. If you areable to apply your state effects with the same ease as you did before the advent of BE foods--- *you* are playing against a player base which does not take advantage of what's available. Flurry - being one of the most active PvP servers (perhaps THE most active) - does.
Now - I know those reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking, but I suggest you return to the discussion, read slowwly and carefully. One hand lunge one is useless against anyone who knows to either stay OUT of your range - or, to not attempt a posture change while dizzy is in effect (that'sIF you landed a dizzy). Add to that server lag, and "your target is out of range", and you might as well flush lunge 1 down the toilette. If you are very successful with this particular move either you fight really stupid people - or you only fight other melee who are too stupid to take advantage of food buffs, and who attempt posture changes when (and if) the dizzy sticks.
Seena
So far the only things you have said to those that disagree with you have been: "You can't read" or "The people you fight must not be as good as the people I fight".
If fencer is a profession that PvPers can consistently win with then why shouldn't we take advantage of that? What is so wrong with winning? PvP doesn't take skill anymore, no matter what class you use. Maybe the combat balance will change that, maybe it won't. For now we are forced to use the options available to us to win. Fencer is one of those options.
Now in response:
BE Brandy:
You most certainly do need 2 servings of VB on top of mind buffs because mind is the only unhealable pool. When I fight, my mind is buffed to about 4000 pts which is about 1000 more than any other pool. Even at that level it is still the only pool that ever takes damage. If the people you fight don't target the mind then "They must not be as good as the people everyone else fights" because it is the only weakness of a well crafted PvP template.
Tanking:
Whether we are meant to be unstoppable tanks or not is irrevelant until the combat balance happens. Right now we are amazing tanks, that is fact. We can stand in the middle of a group of fighters and watch as 19/20 shots miss us. We are not doing anything to make fencer this way. SOE did it, we are just using it to our advantage.
1HandLunge:
You're right, a smart (ranged) fighter will always try to stay out of range of 1HandLunge. If they are able to do this with any success then they are unbeatable by ANY melee fighter. Melee lunge attacks have the greatest attack range of ANY melee attack that I know of. If someone can keep your out of lunge range then you will not be landing a single melee blow throughout the course of the fight.
If you want to post about the real state of fencers in PvP, it should go something like this: We are one of the most effective classes in PvP today. Our defenses are on par with what fencers were designed to be. However, due to 90% resist composite armor and the ability for one of our special attacks to bypass select defensive modifiers we are also major damage dealers in PvP when using our stun batons. The fencer class was intended to be one with very high defensive capabilities and relatively low offensive capabilities. This should be looked at very closely in the upcoming combat rebalance in order to bring fencer back in line with the other combat professions.
Now if any of this didn't make sense to you, I suggest your follow your own advice and reread it slowly. If it still isn't clear, send me a PM and I will try to post picture illustrations.
COSSICH wrote:
hi kali, glad to see your still fighting the good fight. I just have some things I want to comment on =)
in regards to "tanking" and being a "tank"
Your definition is a good one, a tank, as in a military vehicle capable of taking and giving massive amounts of damage. In the MMO world however, and this is my opinion and what I've witnessed lately in the new games that are out is that a "tanking" or "tank" profession is one that can either A: take alot of damage or B: get missed alot. With all the defensive capabilities that a fencer has at their disposal, they are actually litteraly "tanking" meaning, while they do little damage, the opponent tries over and over again to hit them to no avail due to their quick feet and nimble bodies, allowing the rest of the party time enough to take the opponent down.
As with all warfare, times are always ever changing, and in order for anyone to achieve glory in battle, they too must evolve. Unfortunatly that means we have to dance a little differently from what we used to. But in a way, I feel that "buffing" has just gotten way out of hand.
For those of you calling Kali a moron....I just dont see a reason for it other than the fact that your language skills and immaturity are the ones that are talking. All she wanted to do was have a critique and get her opinion out, and what she see's. So take a moment and reflect, take a deep breath, count to ten, and post something back thats more in line with the post, one that reads more intellectually other than calling someone a moron or newb =)
Well Cossich, I'd argue that there are games in which tanks STILL mean a slow moving heavy hitting absorber of damage.
From City Of Heroes Manual:
"The Tanker is the "Big Man" of the super team, combining masive defense with a powerful- but not exceptionaly quick offensive punch".
That's *exactly* what a tank is. Tough - slow, and heavy hitting. What 2 handed is meant to be.
Not what all the FOTM want it so desperately to be.
I'm all for growing, and elvolving - but not when it literally changes what a profession is mean to be.
Seena : )
fencers getting owned? bwahahaha
Tataomm wrote:
Kali,
If fencer is a profession that PvPers can consistently win with then why shouldn't we take advantage of that? What is so wrong with winning? PvP doesn't take skill anymore, no matter what class you use. Maybe the combat balance will change that, maybe it won't. For now we are forced to use the options available to us to win. Fencer is one of those options.
Whats "wrong" with it is, your goals are in direct opposition to what Fencers *are*. That's what's wrong with it. (ie being a heavy hitting tank who spams 1h3)
Now in response:
BE Brandy:
You most certainly do need 2 servings of VB on top of mind buffs because mind is the only unhealable pool. When I fight, my mind is buffed to about 4000 pts which is about 1000 more than any other pool. Even at that level it is still the only pool that ever takes damage. If the people you fight don't target the mind then "They must not be as good as the people everyone else fights" because it is the only weakness of a well crafted PvP template.
So- in other words, you want your cake and eat it too.
Tanking:
Whether we are meant to be unstoppable tanks or not is irrevelant until the combat balance happens. Right now we are amazing tanks, that is fact. We can stand in the middle of a group of fighters and watch as 19/20 shots miss us. We are not doing anything to make fencer this way. SOE did it, we are just using it to our advantage.
That's all going to change with the combat balance. I guarantee you. And hopefully - that will cause a major population shift out of Fencer.
1HandLungeYou're right, a smart (ranged) fighter will always try to stay out of range of 1HandLunge. If they are able to do this with any success then they are unbeatable by ANY melee fighter. Melee lunge attacks have the greatest attack range of ANY melee attack that I know of. If someone can keep your out of lunge range then you will not be landing a single melee blow throughout the course of the fight.
Actuallytactics and lunge 2 are the solution to that problem.. Instead of running AFTER the guy- stop, turn around, and run. When he starts to chase you - turn back to him - guess what? 99% dont expect that - and you can nail em at least 50% of the time. More even.That tactic, combined with drawing them into starports,banks etc - isvery effective. And of course you could always runaway --just cuz ya don't wanna fight a fight you can't win. With lunge 1 its much more of a crap shoot - and you're pretty much stuck with melee and a well timed burst run against less than savy ranged.
If you want to post about the real state of fencers in PvP, it should go something like this: We are one of the most effective classes in PvP today. Our defenses are on par with what fencers were designed to be. However, due to 90% resist composite armor and the ability for one of our special attacks to bypass select defensive modifiers we are also major damage dealers in PvP when using our stun batons. The fencer class was intended to be one with very high defensive capabilities and relatively low offensive capabilities. This should be looked at very closely in the upcoming combat rebalance in order to bring fencer back in line with the other combat professions.
Your "real" state - is not my "real" state. You're entitled to youropinion, and how to state why you have that opinion - just as I am. The difference is - I don't call people newbs or morons (unless of course they flame me first).
Now if any of this didn't make sense to you, I suggest your follow your own advice and reread it slowly. If it still isn't clear, send me a PM and I will try to post picture illustrations.
You can feel free to post what ever the hell you want to. As I will. And I'll keep sending the devs notes daily- to please get Fencer back on track - to what it should be.
Message Edited by KaliMirchi on 05-17-2004 04:16 AM
KaliMirchi wrote:Tataomm wrote:
Kali,
If fencer is a profession that PvPers can consistently win with then why shouldn't we take advantage of that? What is so wrong with winning? PvP doesn't take skill anymore, no matter what class you use. Maybe the combat balance will change that, maybe it won't. For now we are forced to use the options available to us to win. Fencer is one of those options.Whats "wrong" with it is, your goals are in direct opposition to what Fencers *are*. That's what's wrong with it. (ie being a heavy hitting tank who spams 1h3)
Now in response:
BE Brandy:
You most certainly do need 2 servings of VB on top of mind buffs because mind is the only unhealable pool. When I fight, my mind is buffed to about 4000 pts which is about 1000 more than any other pool. Even at that level it is still the only pool that ever takes damage. If the people you fight don't target the mind then "They must not be as good as the people everyone else fights" because it is the only weakness of a well crafted PvP template.So- in other words, you want your cake and eat it too.
Tanking:
Whether we are meant to be unstoppable tanks or not is irrevelant until the combat balance happens. Right now we are amazing tanks, that is fact. We can stand in the middle of a group of fighters and watch as 19/20 shots miss us. We are not doing anything to make fencer this way. SOE did it, we are just using it to our advantage.That's all going to change with the combat balance. I guarantee you. And hopefully - that will cause a major population shift out of Fencer.
1HandLungeYou're right, a smart (ranged) fighter will always try to stay out of range of 1HandLunge. If they are able to do this with any success then they are unbeatable by ANY melee fighter. Melee lunge attacks have the greatest attack range of ANY melee attack that I know of. If someone can keep your out of lunge range then you will not be landing a single melee blow throughout the course of the fight.Actually tactics and lunge 2 are the solution to that problem.. Instead of running AFTER the guy- stop, turn around, and run. When he starts to chase you - turn back to him - guess what? 99% dont expect that - and you can nail em at least 50% of the time. More even. That tactic, combined with drawing them into starports, banks etc - is very effective. And of course you could always run away -- just cuz ya don't wanna fight a fight you can't win. With lunge 1 its much more of a crap shoot - and you're pretty much stuck with melee and a well timed burst run against less than savy ranged.
If you want to post about the real state of fencers in PvP, it should go something like this: We are one of the most effective classes in PvP today. Our defenses are on par with what fencers were designed to be. However, due to 90% resist composite armor and the ability for one of our special attacks to bypass select defensive modifiers we are also major damage dealers in PvP when using our stun batons. The fencer class was intended to be one with very high defensive capabilities and relatively low offensive capabilities. This should be looked at very closely in the upcoming combat rebalance in order to bring fencer back in line with the other combat professions.
Your "real" state - is not my "real" state. You're entitled to your opinion, and how to state why you have that opinion - just as I am. The difference is - I don't call people newbs or morons (unless of course they flame me first).
Now if any of this didn't make sense to you, I suggest your follow your own advice and reread it slowly. If it still isn't clear, send me a PM and I will try to post picture illustrations.
You can feel free to post what ever the hell you want to. As I will. And I'll keep sending the devs notes daily - to please get Fencer back on track - to what it should be.
SeenaMessage Edited by KaliMirchi on 05-17-2004 04:16 AM
Well at least you read my whole post before you replied this time, maybe a reasonable dialog is possible afterall. For the record I never called you a noob. I called you a moron because your first post, and several afterwards, were full of incorrect information such as the stun state thing and to someone that didn't know you it made you sound like you knew nothing about the profession you were talking about.
The one thing about this post that I don't understand is why lunge2 is better suited against kiters than lunge1. First of all, lunge2 is not even a fencer special, it's a master brawler skill. Secondly, you mentioned that BE foods were one of the causes for the fencer downfall yet lunge2 IS subject to the BE Def vs KD foods out there while lunge1 is not since is it a posture down.
As for tactics, there isn't a single fight out there that a fencer can't win. That's why I, and so many others are here. Maybe you will get your wish and after the rebalance our favorite professions will be fixed enough that we can compete with them instead of fencer again. Maybe they will pull a commando and completely ruin fencer in the process.
