Fencer Archive

I'm not for an AP2 for fencer, either, except for some rarer thing. (I'm not against the rare exception.) I'd rather see a fencer special that can UP their AP rating. The penalty for this would be a lowering of defences and maybe no CoB. That way, fencers could get through armor, but have to pay a price.

There's a big gulf for fencers between PvP and PvE. Fencers are great in PvP, where our stun batons do great damage, but in PvE, great defences don't defeat the opponent. Restricting us based on PvP balance (the stun baton) is absurd, when most of the game does not PvP. I don't see many requests for a stronger stun baton, but I do see requests for kinetic swords with AP1. I think that this is a reasonable requests, as long as the damge is in line with a gaffi. (Remember, after slicing and powerup, the weapon can get quite strong!)

They wana be able to go WtfPawn krayts

well zion does im sure

I guess people still fail to understand that AP 2 DOUBLES the damage vs AP 1...

Also, people are STILL acting like I didn't change my mind about AP2 for a master weapon. Learn to read... I tire of your strawman attacks.

Ok, look. I am going to do some more research, and do some more brainstorming, and try to make it so the next time I make this proposal, it will be the last time, and also make it so that I have an Iron Clad case for this.

Feel free to continue to comment, but my next revision will start up in a new thread.

And for the love of God, let the AP2 thing go - I conceded the weapon to AP 1 back on the first page, long before any of the whiners came into this thread.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:
I guess people still fail to understand that AP 2 DOUBLES the damage vs AP 1...

Also, people are STILL acting like I didn't change my mind about AP2 for a master weapon. Learn to read... I tire of your strawman attacks.

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You have quite a bit of research to do appearently.

AP2 does not double the damage. An increase of armor piercing grants a damage increase of 25%,

Well, things like this I am trying to iron out. I posted some research threads in the Heavy Swordsman and Pikemen forums to try to get hard numbers, and facts like this help a lot, and help me to understand some of the uproar.

The facts are this - Fencer weapons suck right now. We would like more "fencery" weapons, and have more AP 1 weapons. Also, those of us who represent the fencing community agree that our best weapon should not outdo a pikeman or a heavy swordsman's best weapon. Note best weapon - it isn't fair for a pikeman to cry about say, a master blade doing more damage than a wooden staff - comparisons need to be fair here.

Plus, its just downright insensitive and incorrect to say "fencers are fine - they need nothing" That is not the opinion of the fencing community, and how would any outsider know if they aren't a real fencer first and foremost? Complaints in that vein make it sound like the person is only whining because they were beat by a fencer in PVP.

Also, rather than pee on the idea of a master weapon for fencer, why not hammer out ideas for one of your own? I would not have any issues with that, if access to a master weapon were properly restricted to masters with no possible exploits. Lets work together to add content to our own professions, rather than seek to prevent it in other people's. If you see any ideas of mine you like, by all means, borrow them. As long as we can improve our professions and the game, I am all for it.

Just keep in mind to stay balanced. I admit, there were and are some things I do not know, and I am trying to research them now to fill in the blanks, because I want a balanced game, and having a balanced proposal increases the likelyhood of it being accepted. This is why this is the second iteration of this thread, and why there will be a third (and hopefully complete and final) version of this thread.

So please, can we work together on this? If we all work together, we can help maintain balance between the weapon-based brawler professions. Better we work together than flame each other - the game will turn out better that way.

Zion, stop trying. This idea sucks, really, really bad, AP2 or AP1, tradeable or not (though even mentioning this as some how justifying your idea is one of the more poorly thought out ideas in your "proposal") and if you want DOT weapons, loot them like the rest of us, you dont need it handed to you on a silver platter.

Like someone said, this is an attempt at God-Mode.

Just to let the bulk of the fencer community know - I am in the process of getting data from the source - namely the Heavy Swordsman and Pikeman forums.

I have gotten some really good data thus far, and it will help me to determine where to place fencer weapons more appropriately, rather than estimate.

Just wanted to let those of you who supported me (and even the few but vocal who don't) that the research and refinement goes on, no matter what.

The point of fencer is a high defense and low damage combination, much like TKA except slightly higher damage and slightly lower speed. Want AP2 weapons? Thats why swordsman exists. This weapon rebalance isn't needed, you already have two damage types (just like swordsman does, tka will soon, and pikeman should) and the damage range is more than acceptable for the speed and defense you have.

Message Edited by kayxfour on 04-21-2004 07:37 PM

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

Well, things like this I am trying to iron out. I posted some research threads in the Heavy Swordsman and Pikemen forums to try to get hard numbers, and facts like this help a lot, and help me to understand some of the uproar.

The facts are this - Fencer weapons suck right now. We would like more "fencery" weapons, and have more AP 1 weapons. Also, those of us who represent the fencing community agree that our best weapon should not outdo a pikeman or a heavy swordsman's best weapon. Note best weapon - it isn't fair for a pikeman to cry about say, a master blade doing more damage than a wooden staff - comparisons need to be fair here.

Plus, its just downright insensitive and incorrect to say "fencers are fine - they need nothing" That is not the opinion of the fencing community, and how would any outsider know if they aren't a real fencer first and foremost? Complaints in that vein make it sound like the person is only whining because they were beat by a fencer in PVP.

Also, rather than pee on the idea of a master weapon for fencer, why not hammer out ideas for one of your own? I would not have any issues with that, if access to a master weapon were properly restricted to masters with no possible exploits. Lets work together to add content to our own professions, rather than seek to prevent it in other people's. If you see any ideas of mine you like, by all means, borrow them. As long as we can improve our professions and the game, I am all for it.

Just keep in mind to stay balanced. I admit, there were and are some things I do not know, and I am trying to research them now to fill in the blanks, because I want a balanced game, and having a balanced proposal increases the likelyhood of it being accepted. This is why this is the second iteration of this thread, and why there will be a third (and hopefully complete and final) version of this thread.

So please, can we work together on this? If we all work together, we can help maintain balance between the weapon-based brawler professions. Better we work together than flame each other - the game will turn out better that way.

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Then quit your complaints on this forum, fix the other 2 professions, give tk';s a non-kinetic damage, and voila, you have balance.

Anything more and fencers will be 'overpowered' as I and every other person that has BEEN other professions(And can rationally look at balance, somewhat you need to learn, clearly, 375max? come on), and can compare them in both Pve and PvP.

Vince, do you ever have to try hard to be such amean, trollish,condescending person?

And really, could you neat a dead horse any more. Come on vince, are you so desperate? You purposely have avoided my posts where I say that I concede that AP 2 is too much, and that the max on the master weap may be off, and you only focus on the same original piece, meant to be a work in progress, over and over again.

Really, stop. your ploy is transparent, and you are embarrassing yourself. Worse, you are being an embarrasment to the fencer population. Or was that your intent all along?

Rhetorical question - I already know the answer...