Fencer Archive

People are getting hung up on the stats because they're outrageous. Fencer would out-dps swordsman and pikeman in pvp and pve, and have the best defenses in the game at the same time: 3x those of pikeman or swordsman. Because of this, the proposal is not likely to be taken seriously, it will be all about the overpowering stats.

antares
master pikeman

Message Edited by antares_Kauri on 04-21-2004 07:34 AM

---

ruehs wrote:
he didn't say that this whole community wanted it, he said it was "his" thoughts.

---

But he did say that people who disagreed with this idea "should be left out of an honest discussion such as this, as the majority of us have expressed our displeasure at our weapon selection." Implying that this is what the community wants.

antares
master pikeman

Well I think he meant(and I really do hope so) that he only wanted constructive critisism.(/crossfingers)

Macross Starchaser, Eclipse, Phoenix Reborn

First, if you look at the melee professions, and this thing called balance, you'd realize, that is the role of a Fencer. Fencers are supposed to be good at avoiding being hit, and hitting fast (I know, I know, speed cap), to help balance that, they do less damage.

Secondly, if you look at the Stun Baton and PvP, you'll realize that Fencers are the ONLY profession with the "Uber" damage type against player armor, and thus have huge capability of damage in PvP, especially if you take into account Acklay bones.

So to respond to your quote, here are 2 for you, from me

There are those here who are happy being stick-weilders and having huge defense mods, and being extremly difficult to be hit and/or knockeddown.

There are those here who are happy being stick-weilders but not happy with doing puny damage compared to everyone else, so they became swordsman, whose combat role is to do mass amounts of damage.

double-post, oops

Message Edited by drezbizkit on 04-21-2004 10:31 AM

---

ruehs wrote:

[quote]

For fun, il post this on the TKM/Swords/Pike board, and see the flames that are given to it

[end quote]

Why did you do something stupid like that, now all you have done is spread nasty rumors of something that the dev's probably haven't even seen. All you are doing is causing people to panic for no reason...to cry nerf when nothing has changed....to imbarass this community for not keeping our own issues in our own forums.

If you thought it was funny, get a clue, Zion posted his thoughts, I don't see your thoughts anywhere. As I don't totally agree with Zion, I will let him have his thoughts, because they are his and his alone, he didn't say that this whole community wanted it, he said it was "his" thoughts. So unless you have something constructive to post don't post in this thread, don't get me wrong constructive critism is ok, but not bashing someone for their thoughts.

Macross Starchaser, Eclipse, Phoenix Reborn

---

He did it to sabotage this thread because he feels his TKM/Swordsman/Pikeman or whatever he is is threatened.

Read the progression of thoughts before Vince's attempt to sabotage the thread. I conceded the AP2 point, and agreed the master weapon should be AP 1. One thing the people in here trying to destroy this thread FAIL to realize is that from AP 1 to AP2, and AP2 to AP 3, your damage essentially doubles. So if we keep the damage for the master weapon at AP 1, then even if there is a heavy swordsman sword that is the same Min-Max but AP 2, that Heavy sword is doing twice the damage of the Fencer sword. Further, there are Heavy Swords and Pikes that are more like 600 Max, so they do FOUR TIMES the damage! So, even with our defenses, our damage still does not compare - so how is this unbalancing??? We get hit less, yes, but when we do, we still get whalloped upside the head. Us getting an AP increase in NO WAY threatens Swordsmen and Pikemen and TKA... And the only 2 weapons I spoke of a damage increase for were the 2 new ones.

Really, the overreaction and paranoia here is tremendous. I was not saying "my way or the highway", but rather "here is a starting point - let those of us who care about our profession hash it out and see how we can refine it."

As others have stated, the concept is good - it just may need a little tweaking.

And to Garva, or who ever has been deleting my responses to Vince - please don't. If they intend to flame, I will no longer bite (they will be ignored from now on), but their intentions must be addressed for what they are - an attempt to sabotage this idea early for fear that it threatens them in their professions (which it most certainly does NOT.) It needs to be said once for the thread to progress and to get back on track, otherwise people will be lured in by Vince's trolling of this post, and he will have succeeded in having it deleted.

So I am asking for this post to remain here, and I am also asking my fellow fencers to ignore vince and his ilk - we need to hash this out to help our profession. The Armorsmiths don't lie down when told "you make great composite" - they want more variety for their armor. Likewise, we should not bow down and settle when told "you have great defenses" - we should have decent weapons as well. Not uber, or even better than other professions AT THE COMPERABLE SKILL BOX (a concept the haters fail to consider), but decent nonetheless. So can we not let the trolls derail this thread?

FURY - Please don't just read the initial post and the overreactions. I conceded to keep a master level sword at AP 1 long before the people trying to derail this thread got here...

Zion,

This is the start of a good idea, but I would tone down the damage on the master's sword and lightfoil. Personally I love the idea of a lightfoil weapon, but I would even be happy to get a rapier. The master's sword tho, from a weaponsmith's perspective you are asking that it take a vibro blade unit and a sword core, not bad, but do this to the vibroblade as well.. Of course all of our swords do take a sword core as it is. Only the vibroblade uses a vibro blade unit tho and it does not take a sword core. Just to make sure you don't think I am talking nonesense, the sword core is the componet replaced by a rancor tooth when crafting a sword.

I don't think they're overreactions. You proposed a couple of weapons that not only have high damage and AP but also nearly ignore all melee migitation. The end result being that fencers would out-dps and out-defend swordsmen and pikemen and if it was AP2, TKAs as well. Even at only AP1 300-350, the out-classing would hold due to speed and mitigation. That combined with the best defenses in the entire game, far out-classing swordsmen and pikemen, would cause a rift. Fencers already have better pvp dps anyway.

antares
master pikeman

---

FURY_Chaser wrote:

Fencers will NOT get AP2 weapons sorry guys.

---

Thank you fury, I was waiting for you to read this

Zion-

My point has been made.