Fencer Archive
Thread: Ok Rebalancing Fencer Weapons. My thoughts on how it should go.
Minerunner
Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:45 pm
#15
My original post got deleted probably because it was attached as a response to one that got deleted.
From one of the oldest members of this community to another... Zion... Very well done.
Have it be difficult and painfull and tough... but accomplishable solo or small group not dependant on a damage type we can't do ourselves.
I'm all for it.
BaenreGod
Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:00 pm
#16
Vincent, I think thats what Zion meant when he suggested this, that it would be pretty rare, and you would have to get new stuff each time, like the scythe kind of, but cooler.
TalusianRogue
Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:16 pm
#17
I can't find enough negative things to say about this, so I'll just respectfully /disagree, and be content to know that this will never ever happen.
Vincentarasin
Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:35 pm
#18
In his other posts, zion has stated its relativly easy to get.
Ris armor is an irritating and expensive process, anything cheaper or easier for a weapon with those insane stats would be outragous, imbalancing, and still completly stupid.
I would go further to say that the "rare loot componets - See armorsmith RIS for more information' can ONLY be gotten by people with this uber weapon quest.
Minerunner
Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:19 pm
#19
Explain how they are insane stats?
Explain how this would overballance Fencers?
Please include figures and equations to support your hypothisis that this would be overpowering?
Because fact of the matter is that dozens of people have already proposed documentedfigures and metrics describing how underpowered the class is with regards to late game content.
The stats proposed for the master sword are below most novice weapons any other class can get.
Back up your brimstone Vincent. Cause right now it's smelling like rotten eggs.
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:42 am
#20
First, let me say this:
There are those here who are happy being stick-weilders and doing puny damage compared to everyone else, and are such because they fear if we actually were made competitive, we would be nerfed. Please be sure to note these people as such when they post, as they are very obvious. And if you dare to question them, they get very insulting and defensive. I only bring up this point because such people should be left out of an honest discussion such as this, as the majority of us have expressed our displeasure at our weapon selection. So ignore these people when they post - I can't tell you to do that, but I am asking for the sake of keeping honest discussion alive in this thread regarding issues most of us feel strongly about. Thank you.
*edited for formatting to make it more readable.*
How I would rebalance the Fencer Weapons
Keep in mind, I would not mess with damage on most items... a weapons rebalance for fencer would actually be a simple matter:
AP2 Weapons
Master Sword (New)
AP 1 Weapons
Vibroblade
Ryyk Blade
Rantok
Light Foil (New)
AP0 Weapons
Survival Knife
Stone Kinfe
Dagger
Curved Sword
Stun baton
Gaffi Stick
Sword
See, now we have a balance of AP 0 and AP 1, and the AP will make up for the damage.
However, I would like to see the certifications moved up as well.
Currently, the sword, curved sword, and gaffi are all in 1 Handed weapons 1 in brawler, with the Rantok, Ryyk, and Vibroblade going down that tree. I would like to see the Ryyk and the Rantok moved up to Novice Fencer, and Curved Sword moved up to 1 Handed weapons 3, the Sword moved up to 1 Handed Weapons 2, and the Gaffi moved up to 1 handed weapons 4, along with the vibroblade moving up from 1 handed weapons 2 to 1 handed weapons 4. I would also like to see the dagger moved up to 1 Handed weapons 1, and leave the survival Knive and looted stone knife for the novice brawler.
So the shakedown for Certifications for Brawler level to Novice Fencerwould be this:
NOVICE FENCER
Stun Baton(AP 0)
Ryyk Blade (AP 1)
Rantok (AP 1)
MASTER ONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 4)
Gaffi Stick (AP 0)
Vibro Blade (AP 1)
EXPERTONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 3)
Curved Sword(AP 0)
ADVANCEDONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 2)
Sword(AP 0)
INTERMEDIATEONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 1)
Dagger(AP 0)
NOVICE BRAWLER
Survival Knife (AP 0)
Stone Kinfe (AP 0)
I believe this makes a lot of sense in terms of weapon progression, and also in terms of AP. With certain weapons receiving an AP of 1, we have no need to increase the damage. Also, in terms of the Rantok vs the Ryyk, I would make the Rantok have a little bit better stats, since it is a limited quest item - people will still use the Ryyk because it is more easily attainable.
This also solves our issues of wanting to use swords - by moving the Ryyk and Rantok up to AP 1, it gives us useful swords that help with the feel of the profession.
Moving into the Fencer category beyond Novice, I would like to see a Lightfoil, as Oogami put forth, but in the Advanced Box of Stances and Grips. I think it makes sense there, and it should be AP 1. Plus, it gives the fencer another sword to play with. I think the damage for the foil should range from 230min to 270 Max... Not as much damage as a gaffi, but it has the AP1 with it, plus it establishes itself as a higher tiered weapon. I think in this case we should have a different damage type as well - energy - since it essentially is a poor man's lightsaber.
Finally, the Master blade. I have said this before, but I have refined this, and here is what I think:
The Master Blade is a sword only available to a Master Fencer, and is non-tradeable. Nor can you have more than one in any of your inventories. To get another one, your only option is to destroy the first. The Master Blade will be the only fencer weapon that is AP 2. In addition, an optional component for the blade will be one DOT attack, which is given to the blade by using a DNA sample from a Bio Engineer - If the Creature sampled uses a particular DOT attack, then the blade will inherit it. It will be unlimited use, and the potency, strength, and damage will all depend on the quality of the DNA sample.
Before anyone starts saying this will bring Nerfs upon us, thus far this weapon is no different than a Nightsister lance, Grooved 2 hand sword, and countless other looted and craftable weapons that use special schematics. The only thing is that this one gets to be ours. To get the sword, you need to seek out a Fencing master NPC, who will send you on missions to complete. The last mission will be to defeat his prized pupil in front of him. You win, and he gives you aone useschematic for the Master Sword.
You take that to any weaponsmith, and they can make the sword for you (note from earlier you can also bring the DNA sample to the WS to add a DOT to the sword.) Also, once you complete the quest, you can go back to the master at any time and request a schematic, but you will only get another one a) If you do not have the master sword in your possession (yes, you need to destroy yours) and b) you must fight his prized pupil again. This will keep the number of swords in circulation down, and will also stop profiteering from the sword. *Note* When the WS makes the sword, he can only trade the sword to a master fencer, after which the sword becomes untradable).
The Master Sword will have openings for a dna sample (for DOT), a rancor tooth, AND a vibromotor, all OPTIONAL. If you make the sword with no extras, the standard damage in my eyes should be between 300 min- 370 max. All DOT related things other than use will be dependant on the creature the DNA sample is looted from, and the quality of the DNA (note - the DNA is optional, thus so is the DOT attack).
Such a blade will be for masters only, and will add to the lore of fencers.
So there you have it - a quick and easy way to rebalance fencer. Even without the 2 new weapons, the rebalance I put forward would solve a lot of weapon issues for fencer. But for those of you who are looking for more from our weapons - what do you think?
Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-20-2004 03:45 PM
snufft
Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:24 am
#21
if we get these weapons, why would any want to be swordsman, pikeman or tka? We would have better defenses, more accuracy andmore dps. It would make the other melee proffesions useless. Fencers compensate their medium damage with high defense. If u want pve killing power, go swordsman.
Vincentarasin
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:21 am
#22
snufft wrote:
if we get these weapons, why would any want to be swordsman, pikeman or tka? We would have better defenses, more accuracy andmore dps. It would make the other melee proffesions useless. Fencers compensate their medium damage with high defense. If u want pve killing power, go swordsman.
WHABAMP
My point spoken for me.
As of now we out-damage swordsmen and pikemen in PvP, or aginst unarmor'd mobs.
And we arnt to far behind Tkm, so close that it is possible to out-damage a TKm aginst an un-armor'd opponent.
You slap us with a 370+ max weapon, that would BLOW everyone away, I dont need to provide figures, anyone with a brain can see that having the best working defeses, the highest dps, armorpierce 2, and most elite looking profession would be imbalancing, and an uprage.
For fun, il post this on the TKM/Swords/Pike board, and see the flames that are given to it
Vincentarasin
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:29 am
#23
Tkm message:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=teras_kasi_artist&message.id=63513
Swordsman message:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swordsman&message.id=29211
Pikemen message:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pikeman&message.id=24796
comandobob
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:44 am
#24
OK two things the master sword is a good idea but the dam is way to high and would make swordman useless , it would also cry the bigest nerf from all profession as well , two the bralwer weapons only two knifes come on it would take you ages to xp through one handed to novice fencer , some of the ideas are good but alot are crying for us to eted nerfed
as we would be way to power full , we are light armoured and fast fencers if we want 300+ dam weapons go swordman they are slow and high damage
Dynastar
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:47 am
#25
You want a 300-370dmg, AP2 weapon, when the Pikeman AP2 weapon is only 110-375ish, and 4.5 speed at that?
This isn't a "rebalance", its taking a stab at God-mode.
raldurrm
Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:05 am
#26
scratch the master weapon to ap1 same stats and make it look cool. no DoT but the rancor tooth and vibro motor be optional componets.
I'd personally like to see a scimitar or a lenghty dagger with a curved blade and handle