Fencer Archive
Thread: Pettion: Fix the Vibroblade.
Awon has it bang on...we only have ONE weapon, the Gaffi Baton
. I've tried all the others, and they suck big time. Its time we get another choice...imagine if the ranged professions only had one good pistol and all the rest were CDEF's? wow talk about whining then 
Say, fencers need a new weapon...
"Geonosian Butter-knife of Doom"
I bought a couple of them vibroblades not long ago to test them out. I figured with AP1 they might be a good alternative to the gaffi in PvP battles. Boy was I wrong
Server: Shadowfire
I have never ever seen a VB get that much of a damage incress on shadowfire, the best VB's I seen were 195 an those sold for 600k to 1mil each. Crafters on our server are greedy most are but some are very fair. Although, even with the improved damage you gotten off those Vibro's its honestly not even competeing with the gaffi.. Do some phase testing I can assure you the gaffi, being a non armor pericing is out-prefroming the VB... Heck a combat knife almost out perfroms a VB as is.
Falric wrote:
Name: Eva
Server: Shadowfire
Master Fencer since 2-3 weeks after shadowfire opening.
Oky, I am not not one to really go around posting something like this in any of the form's. I honestly do not know were to post this but here as it is more logical to place it here instead of spaming it all over on other boards an places. Well here is what I have to say about the issues with the vibroblade since I played a fencer since publish one to know this is my data an information I have compiled over the months. I am surpised none of the older fencers noticed this or even bothered to say something sooner.
Since publish 1-3 the vibroblade an master fencers were very very rare on any of the servers. Tka's an swordsmen kinda of out numbered us due to thier powerful attacks, skills or bleeds. The fencers weapons weren't even really discovered by many weaponsmiths to be of any use or profit to make. Although once the vibroblades were being produced with good quality an even better over time the weaponsmiths on shadowfire found that there was money in selling them. To be honest this was a grand age for the vibroblades they did an proformed as well as it was intended they should. I remember many times in pvp, if I got someone just right I could down them with a vibroblade in mere seconds, complared to now which I have to fight three to five times harder to get a kill.
Publish 1-3 combat data information. This is compiled from older data I have had made easier to read I rather not spam you all with many lines but I am using just the avagere hit to best to show. Remember this data veries to person to person if you still have logs but simular.
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Player Vs. Enemy
Not using specials, just normal attacks, using no power ups.
Avg Damage 158 to 395
Highest Damage hit 485
Lowest Damage hit 58
Using specials, with no power ups.
Avg Damage 600 to 1300
Highest Damage hit 3500
Lowest Damage hit 300
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Player Vs. Player
Not using specials, just normal attacks, not using power ups.
Avg damage 100 to 278
Highest Damage hit 425
Lowest Damage Hit 58
Using specials, with power ups.
Avg damage hit 240 to 350
Highest Damage hit 600
Lowest damage hit 120
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Now in publish 4 an to now, the vibroblade was drasticly adjusted to the point it no longer what it was a very good weapon for a fencer to use. The weapon still honestly is good to use due to its low ham cost an ablity to spam your specials at a much greater rate then any other fencer weapon we have. An it has a nice little pen 1 modifire to it. But recent testing an I do mean recent testing shows that the vibroblade DOESNT preform remotely as close as it was intended orginaly. The dev's have stealth nerfed this weapon an many of us know it. Heck, I could use a combat knife in pvp an still do as good as my vibroblade fencer weapon.. Here is the new updated information with Viboblades in combat on shadowfire I think you might find this intresting
Player Vs. Enemy
using no power ups, no speicals
Avg hit 70 to 135
Highest hit 325
lowest hit 24
Useing only specials
avg hit 500 to 800
Highest hit (incredibly seldom) 3000
lowest hit 200
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Player vs Player
using no power ups or specials
avg hit 58 to 125
highest hit 250
lowest 14
Using specials
avg hit 54 to 128
highest hit 275
lowest 18
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Anyhow, I just wanted to point out, with tka's able to do a consistant 400 to 500 damage to you over an over again. An swordsmen an pikmen doing far greater damaging hits to you as well, why are we stuck with nibbling an bite damage attacks. To be honest we should do a bit better damage then this, I know we do well in defence but we should be able to do a bit better in dishing out damage to. The reason why thier is so many tka's is cuase the fact the tka is god in pvp, they are by far the hardest class to kill in my honest oppion. Due tot he fact we can never stand toe to toe an dish out anything remotely close in damage wise to them. In pvp, I work 3-6 times harder then any class in the game to get my kills. TKa's just kd2 you an kill you in seconds, or you get shot up so fast by other professions that your miserible damage cant compete. The only saving grace of the vibroblade is that it doesnt kill you in ham cost as fast as a gaffi stick. An Don't get me started on the gaffi stick. GEEZE how can a non-armor pericing weapon do 2-3 times more damage in pvp then our vibro. That makes no sense!
Vibroblade used to test with 58 to 185 damage, 2.6 speed...
Combat Knife 20 to 95 3.0 speed.
(used this for giggles found out this in damage wise only does 15% less damage then a VB an is funner to use in combat.)
Gaffi stick 148 to 282 speed 3.3
(dont have time to post this data but it is upsetting this weapon out performs but at a cost our vibroblades by far)
I have highlighted (in red) the issues im debating, top to bottom
Number one, Fencer's had two bleeds, which were superior to 2h swords, Tkm's dont get any more powerful of an attack then we do, they get a faster swing speed.
Number Two, At master fencer, We cap, Period, End, No if's And's or Buts. I am not sure if the crappy Tuskin Gaffis (5.6ish speed) cap, I doubt it, but at master fencer, EVERY attack, EVERY WEAPON, caps.
Number Three, 3000 Damage? I freely Admit your post is virtually impossible to understand, however unless these tests were done in the two months that I took a break, yournumbers are WAY off. Hit3, our most powerful attack, is a 5x style, Per Raphayl. So thats, 600 base damage? Ahem I aced trig, but eather ALL attacks are off, or you hit one tomany Zero's in your calc. Now, here is the EXCEPTION to this,
Scatterhit, It hits MULTIPLE (2-3) So, ok, lets try this, 171 Max, a 16% powerup, thats aprox 200 damage, for easy numbers. Asume it hits Two stats, At max, for 100% damage (Vunerabe to kinetic), Scatterhit2 is a 4x style (Per Raph)
so, 200x4x2 = 1600, Asuming a 2 pool max dmg scatterhit2, A 3 pool would be, 200x4x3= 2400 damage.
Number four The stats on that gaffi, I have (Within the top 1% possible, per averaged resources and percents nesecarry for weapon schematic) Gaffi baton, it is, just for grins, 225 damage, 3.5 speed, thats BASE (No slice, no powerup)
So your gaffi is eather, (Asuming your max is close to mine) Aprox 25% damage slice, with a speed powerup (A waste, we cap as I stated eariler, any MASTER FENCER knows this) Those stats dont add up for a crafted gaffi, If its looted off a Tskn WL, or made with <Some> droped component, fine I dont know those. Just an Fyi, with your gaffi, 3384 max dmg is "possible" with scatterhit2.
So that said, I think one of two things, your not a master fencer, or you cant do math
Server: Shadowfire
First of all I been a master fencer since publish one or a wee bit after. I know what I am talking about an what I have seen. As much as you like to rip apart an shreed what I have to say I will counter. Unforantly if you cannot understand the combat data that was posted. It was done only by a vibro-blade no other weapon was used for this combat data. The other weapons I mentioned are entiraly another issue..
The publish 1-3 tests were done with a vibrobalde at 2.4speed 52 to 168 damage.
The publish 4+ tests were acutly done in publish 6. The vibroblade used was 2.6 speed 58 to 187 damage.
The first string of data called "Player Vs. Enemy" or aslo known as player vs creatures. Its very simple to understand an stright forward. I only displayed the Average damage done to creatures, in combat this information comes from a alot of creature combats not just one type. Limiting yourself to a single type of oppenent gives you no true idea. The next down the line is Highest damage, this is the recoreded highest damage done to a creature in my data. The last line is called lowest... I think you get the idea now..
Now the second string of data is called "Player Vs Player" This is aslo known as PVP Vincentarasin. Do you know what pvp means? Well it means Two players fight it out in a duel or in combat as rebels vs imperails.. Very simple to understand that the string of data in this section is COMPLETELY differnt due to the restraints an restrictions in the coding. Players attacking other players do alot less damage then players vs creatures. Again, average damage is basicly what my data shows in over many many combat fights I have had.
So...... This data could be differnt then other peoples data, each person has a differnt understanding of how things work. Anyhow what this post is trying to point out is the fact the vibroblades damage output for what its suppose to be is greatly underpar compared to other weapons. Its very simple, you can say oh the weapon is working fine. In PVE the weapon is working pretty decently, but its the player vs. player enviorment that this weapons is sorely lacking in. This is the point I am trying to get across. Your PVE data means moot, since its all almost the same, I get the same caculations an information you gotten that you posted now but in the first publishes the data was slightly differnt not by much. To be honest your caculations make sense but in actual game play it means moot, thats an entirely differnt ball game, it may look good on paper but when its actuly working is it??
Anyhow I do understand if sometimes my posts are a bit confusing, I am used to posting the stright foward information an not beat around the bush so to speak. Anyhow to answer your little highlights in which I find very amusing at best.
1) Fencer has two bleeds, that is true, since the update to bleed stacking has been put into effect, along with armors that reduce kentic damage bleeds in pvp are completely useless. In pvp an pve you can only use one bleed, not two. This has been fixed in publish 6.
2) At master fencer we do cap with every weapon we use, but sometimes the combat que is a bit slower with some weapons then others. That has me thinking thier could be some type of dely of sorts who knows I could careless honestly about what type of weapon we have equiped I know at master fencer we swing pretty fast.
3) About your cacluations of how damage is done. I am not discussed this about this area of the topic, I know how the caculations work honestly I don't care. I am using live data not, papper data.. Anyhow nice information to add to my scrap books. An yet again this data ONLY applies to Player Vs. Creatures to get the full effect. Now try to figure out the player vs player coding. I bet your gonna have a tone of fun. An yes I took Caclus in college to, hated it but meh, I passed with a b+. ^-^
4) The gaffi stick I posted, was not used in the combat data I have had. I couldn't honestly post this information due to I have no combat data that goes back to the gaffi's during publish 1-3. Although this topic isnt about the gaffis but I will answer your question. The weapon was sliced with speed, an thats what the gaffi's damage was, Renson on shadowfire makes very nice weapons although you pay litterly an arm an a leg for them.
5) To your insult about not being a master fencer or I can't do math read above. Clearly I am one an I do know what I am talking about. If you do not think I am one, come to shadowfire an duel me I will rip you assunder! As for the mathatic's issue, ummmm I am my degree's are in computer animation an local area networking. Heck I can take my Cisco ceritifactions if I wanted or even my microsoft certifactions as well. ^-^
If you so choose to come an hunt me out.. My name is Eva not hard to find me I hang around theed alot.
Vincentarasin, Im assuming you arent a fencer by the way you have slated Falric's post so incorrectly. They were pointing out how poorlythe Vibroblade performs and that it does need some love to compete with the other weapons at our disposal, versus an armoured opponent a VB with its AP1 should be the weapon of choice.
Firstly, your concept of what ScatterHit2 actually does is completely wrong. It is a single target attack with a 4 times damage multiple that is SPLIT across 2-3 actual hits. It also suffers from a bug that the damage absorbed by armourfrom each hit is based on the total damage of the attack rather than the damage of the actual hit, meaning that when you strike some half decent armour only 1 point of damage gets through to the target.
Secondly, do the maths for the current VBs and Gaffis and you will see how poor it is. Hereis the maths based on the best standard VBs and Gaffis I could find on my server, I have used unsliced/powered up stats for the calculations as they just confuse the matter unless using items sliced the exact same way with the same powerups.
VB 40-140 damage, speed 2.6, AP1
Gaffi 121-225 damage speed 3.5, AP0
Shilak wrote:Vincentarasin, Im assuming you arent a fencer by the way you have slated Falric's post so incorrectly. They were pointing out how poorly the Vibroblade performs and that it does need some love to compete with the other weapons at our disposal, versus an armoured opponent a VB with its AP1 should be the weapon of choice.
Firstly, your concept of what ScatterHit2 actually does is completely wrong. It is a single target attack with a 4 times damage multiple that is SPLIT across 2-3 actual hits. It also suffers from a bug that the damage absorbed by armour from each hit is based on the total damage of the attack rather than the damage of the actual hit, meaning that when you strike some half decent armour only 1 point of damage gets through to the target.
Secondly, do the maths for the current VBs and Gaffis and you will see how poor it is. Here is the maths based on the best standard VBs and Gaffis I could find on my server, I have used unsliced/powered up stats for the calculations as they just confuse the matter unless using items sliced the exact same way with the same powerups.
VB 40-140 damage, speed 2.6, AP1
With onehandhit3 minimum damage is 40 x 1.5 x 5 = 300 and maximum damage is 140 x 1.5 x 5 = 1050.Versus AR0 this will do an additional 25% damage to give us a range of 375-1312 damage. Or 375-750 when mitigation3 is factored in.Versus AR1 this will do the same damage due to AP1, therefore 300-1050 damage. Or 300-600 when mitigation3 is factored in.Gaffi 121-225 damage speed 3.5, AP0
With onehandhit3 minimum damage is 121 x 1.5 x 5 = 907 and maximum damage is 225 x 1.5 x 5 = 1687.Versus AR0 this will do the same damage due to AP0, therefore 907-1687 damage. Or 907-1219 when mitigation3 is factored in.Versus AR1 this will do 50% less damage to give us a range of 453-843 damage. Or 453-609 when mitigation3 is factored in.It is quite clear from the above that the VB is not performing as it should be, and the situation only gets worse when you factor in the new Acklay bones that can be used to improve the Gaffi's statistics even further. BTW, has anyone seen a version of the Acklay bones that can be used on weapons that use sword cores? HAM considerations are pointless for PvP as any serious PvPer will be buffed to the point that HAM costs are zero for the Gaffi anyway.
Very very good post, thank you for taking the time to look into this matter. Although I did some addtional testing last night with a VB, in pvp since we had some buffed rebels coming into theed mixing it up with us. I will go though an explain what my acutal live data string was looking like.
Vibroblade Performance in PVP when rebels attacked theed only 5 rebs did fully buffed:
For the first part of the fight I would say about an hour an a half I used the vibroblade, taking time to aquire the data I needed. I was roughtly in 22 fights, an died 22 times with out hardly even scratching my oppenents even when they were knocked down an on the floor dizzied an WC2'd. The data that was listed in my combat log showed that these guys were using advanced compsite armor with around 80% kentic resistance an 27% to 47% vs stun. I could easly guess the ranges since I have fought many battles agasit players in incredible armor.
Scatter hit 23-28pts
Dizzy 14-28pts
Blind 14-28pts
onehanded hit 3 30-56pts
Lunge 2 14-30pts
lunge 1 5-15pts
bleed2 9-20pts of bleed.
Not a single skill even hit for 100 or more. This person had 3200hp or slightly more, his action was 2890, his mind was 1890, he told me his secondary stats were all above 2500. An he was wearing advanced composite shadowlord armor with stun protection. Needless to say I died so many times it was just laughible while they mocked me in how poorly skilled I was. Thats until I pulled out a stun baton thier mocking all died.
Stun baton in combat, vs 5 rebels in theed fully buffed an armored:
One rebel, tato got a bit smartmouthed with me an said he will duel me all alone since I was such a weak oppenent. I chuckled to myself as it was a perfect way to lure a tka into a nice little surpise ambush. I am honorible but, no others helped me in taking him out as we both went at it behind the med center. A doctor imperial saw I was battleing this lone tka an supplied heals on me as I fought. I do so enjoy how a TKA always hits you for 300-500 damage no matter if your armored or not. So being only with 2087mind, 1275hp 1150action I battled this uber buffed tka. At first I had my vb equiped letting him think thats the only weapon I used. THen when the battle started I swtiched to the stun baton. Warcryed an intimated him, it was a pretty quick battle about a min or so of just special use.
lunge 1 50-105pts
lunge 2 50-125pts
onehanded hit 3 100-200pts
blind2 75-125pts
dizzy2 75-125pts
scatter hit2 80-130pts
Bleed2 30-90pts
Please take in consideration this is the average hits. The acutal highest damage I did was 275pts with onehanded hit 3 attack.
Now a friend of mine named "TheDuke" Is a defence template fencer of course he is planing on changing out his professions when pub7 comes in an removes the ablity to stack defences. He handed me an non-alk gaffi stick an told me to have some fun. This gaffi was 3.2 138 to 239 *speed enhansed* He an I tested the gaffi first with his armor on then off, as he wasnt buffed.
Test with Non-Alk Gaffi stick.
Armored
Lunge 1 75-155pts
lunge 2 80-170pts
onehanded hit 3 100-200pts
blind2 80-150pts
dizzy2 75-165pts
scatter 75-140pts
bleed2 9-56pts
Now take in consideration I do not see the acutal damage since armor obsorbs alot of the hit. But still it out perfroms the stun baton.
Unarmed
lunge 1 90-190pts
lunge 2 95-200pts
onehanded hit3 110-350pts
blind2 90-175pts
dizzy2 90-210pts
scatter 75-150pts
bleed2 40-89pts
Ham usage on both tests were roughtly 110.
Test with Alk-Gaffi stick.
3.8speed 148 to 348 *no enhansements*
Ham useage 50-65pts
Armored
Lunge 1 75-165pts
lunge 2 87-180pts
onehanded hit 3 115-275pts
blind2 100-190pts
dizzy2 100-198pts
scatter 90-165pts
bleed2 9-56pts
Unarmored
Lunge 1 75-230pts
lunge 2 87-330pts
onehanded hit 3 115-600pts
blind2 100-300pts
dizzy2 100-300pts
scatter 115-325pts
bleed2 56-175pts
This was acutal data from last night, it took me aleast 2hrs of reviewing my data logs from in game to get this information. I hope you enjoyed what was posted.
.Modify that by 1.8x to get 540 base damage. Why 1.8? Nobody knows except the devs.
Multiply that by 5 to get the max damage you can do with that weapon with oh3: 2700.
This fits very well since I mostly get 2400 or so. If you KD you can top 4000.
So Falric is very much right with the 3k damage.
Now I want to say that our weapons are really sad. Un-loot-enhanced weapons are horrible outside the gaffi.
Stun baton? Mine is 175 damage, was around 130 base with a 34% damage slice. Doesn't get much higher than that. So pretty much unless something has more than 60% kinetic you're better off using a gaffi.
Same applies with a vibroblade verse a gaffi. The ap bonus doesn't help compared to the max damage and damage range on a gaffi. Mitigation kills the vibroblade.
As for pvp, I only use the stun baton when someone is wearing 90% composite. And if someone is, I pretty much assume I'm screwed anyway. Ever try to use a stun baton on a TKM? Yeah I love doing 90 damage on a kd'd opponent with my best special. Now my 313 gaffi with a 16% powerup (364 damage
) hits non-mitigated, unarmored folks for about 600 damage and if they are kd'd its 900.
You still cant read falric, Your scatterhits are doing 2-3x, why do people not understand this.
Scatterhit ALWAYS hits ATLEAST TWO pools, (They are random which) and in my experience has about a 35% chance of hitting all three.
Stun baton will perform the best aginst armor'd oponents comared to any other non-stun-damage weapon. Even if its stun armor, its maybe 20%? Stun averages higher (mine, your weapons clearly are low, that alk gaffi should be 450+) then the gaffi does.
Half your post seems to be a whine-complain about fighting a buffed opponent, I can tell ya right now, fighting unbuffed is stupid, you WILL lose aginst a buffed opponent, They can use attacks without real penalty, you cant. Tk's dont hit 300-500 every hit, im sorry, you need to get some armor.
As for Shilak, I think I know what Scatterhit does, Very few on my server use it because 'It sucks" Yeah, its lower said damage, but nobody THINKS, What does Armor matter? Stun damage, If someone is in stun armor, you kd/dizzy and run unless your a rifleman, Non-fencer/riflemans dont generally fight people fully armor'd anyway, its pointless buffed, they will regen their health faster then anyone can do it. PvP is all about the mind, Atleast on my server, If you dont have a mind hit (Or stun damage) Competing is very boring