Fencer Archive
Thread: Dual wielding, hamstringing, and rapiers.... oh my
MrSemi
Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:48 am
#14
As far as dual wielding goes, how about giving us the opportunity to be a little more offensive at times at the cost of our our defenses.
Perhaps with two weapons, we could hit 33% harder at the cost of 50 points of dodge.
VegitoX
Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:11 pm
#15
Hmm, but he does have a point. I like the idea of giving upsomething for the ability the ability to dual wield. Perhaps lessen the penalty at Master, but for godsakes, we certainly dont want our own respective Galaxies overrun with Fencers.
I think Fury is shootingto give usRogue'esque qualitieswith the hamstring attack and getting behind the player to do the bulk of our damage...I like it.
PhatDaddyDamon
Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:12 pm
#16
There are a lot of things I would suggest for making the fencer the undisputed king of close-in melee, as he or she should be.
And a lot of things come to mind when I think of what it means to be a fencer. Whether it's someone with the flair of Alexandre Dumas' Musketeers or the controlled fury of a Kendo master, one thing is certain: one should give very careful consideration to facing off against a member of this profession. How do we ensure that all of those TKMs and Scythe-wielding, mind-smashing swordsmen don't mop the floor with us?
Well, Precision Attacks would be one way. Above and beyond the run-of-the-mill attacks everyone here is familiar with such as Body Hit and Dizzy Hit, give fencers something that enables them to find the chinks in their opponents' armor, something to negate all of those high-level enemies' seemingly impervious kinetic defenses. How many times have you read in books or seen in movies the master swordsman who is able to find the spot under the arm through which to drive his blade or the tendons to slash to cripple or incapacitate him? Give fencers something to make people respect and fear us. No matter how expensive or impressive a suit of armor may be, a true master of fencing should be able to identify and exploit its weaknesses.They aren't supposed to be tanks, butinstead shouldrely on speed and efficiency, and they should know this.
Disarm is another great idea, and should berelatively easyonce you reach the top (againstlower level PCs or NPCs)
And a true, actual stunning blow. Not the useless version in the game today, but rather one that actually manages to debilitate an opponent and cause them to stand wavering for a certain period of time unable to do anything. TKs have a knockdown, so is it really too much to expect that a Fencer would have a stunning blow?
Or give us something thatmight be reserved for Fencing Masters and would epitomize the skill and focus they have achieved. A dazzling and devastating coup-de-gras that features a series of impressive animations, it would culminate in a blow that deals 50% damage to the opponent's remaining HAM and has maybe a 40-60% chance of causing them to flee (non-PvP enemies). To limit its usage it could drain 50% of the player's total mind pool, meaning it could only effectively be used twice before the player has to wait for his pool to fill up again at least to mid-level.
And since the damage it does applies only to the opponent's remaining HAM (probably targeting them randomly), it becomes less effective the more it is used. Thus it would be an ideal initial strike, especially against extremely powerful enemies, after which the player could back off and let teammates take over as they recuperate or initiate other types of attacks. (For example: The player attacks an opponent with 5000 HAM. The first attack deals 50% damage to the health pool (2500 points), leaving the opponent with 2500 health. The next attack deals 50% more damage to that remaining 2500 health, leaving the opponent with 1250 health. The third attack, if it also hits the health pool, would take off another 50%, leaving them with 625 health, and so on, becoming less powerful the more it is used.) Just a thought, since most really powerful opponents seem to have ridiculous kinetic or stun resistances, which is the whole of the Fencer's arsenal...
Intimidation is another subject I'd like to touch on. It is the bane of fencers everywhere, and can single-handedly turn an encounter against a simple Squill Guardian into an epic and tedious battle of endless hacks and curses. Fencers are connoisseurs of showmanship, virtuosos of bravado, and it is absurd to me that they can be so easily and completely thrown off their game by the very thing they have devoted their entire careers to doing to others. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
Weapons are an oft-mentioned subject so I won't get into it much here. I will just say that I am tired of gaffi sticks. They are ugly, completely lacking in refinement and elegance, and are notably NOT swords, which the consensus demands. Fencers exist with style and panache and these ridiculous clubs just don't cut it. Give us swords, and make them powerful. A fencing master should be the equal of any mind-bashing swordsmanor caveman hammer slinger.
And a lot of things come to mind when I think of what it means to be a fencer. Whether it's someone with the flair of Alexandre Dumas' Musketeers or the controlled fury of a Kendo master, one thing is certain: one should give very careful consideration to facing off against a member of this profession. How do we ensure that all of those TKMs and Scythe-wielding, mind-smashing swordsmen don't mop the floor with us?
Well, Precision Attacks would be one way. Above and beyond the run-of-the-mill attacks everyone here is familiar with such as Body Hit and Dizzy Hit, give fencers something that enables them to find the chinks in their opponents' armor, something to negate all of those high-level enemies' seemingly impervious kinetic defenses. How many times have you read in books or seen in movies the master swordsman who is able to find the spot under the arm through which to drive his blade or the tendons to slash to cripple or incapacitate him? Give fencers something to make people respect and fear us. No matter how expensive or impressive a suit of armor may be, a true master of fencing should be able to identify and exploit its weaknesses.They aren't supposed to be tanks, butinstead shouldrely on speed and efficiency, and they should know this.
Disarm is another great idea, and should berelatively easyonce you reach the top (againstlower level PCs or NPCs)
And a true, actual stunning blow. Not the useless version in the game today, but rather one that actually manages to debilitate an opponent and cause them to stand wavering for a certain period of time unable to do anything. TKs have a knockdown, so is it really too much to expect that a Fencer would have a stunning blow?
Or give us something thatmight be reserved for Fencing Masters and would epitomize the skill and focus they have achieved. A dazzling and devastating coup-de-gras that features a series of impressive animations, it would culminate in a blow that deals 50% damage to the opponent's remaining HAM and has maybe a 40-60% chance of causing them to flee (non-PvP enemies). To limit its usage it could drain 50% of the player's total mind pool, meaning it could only effectively be used twice before the player has to wait for his pool to fill up again at least to mid-level.
And since the damage it does applies only to the opponent's remaining HAM (probably targeting them randomly), it becomes less effective the more it is used. Thus it would be an ideal initial strike, especially against extremely powerful enemies, after which the player could back off and let teammates take over as they recuperate or initiate other types of attacks. (For example: The player attacks an opponent with 5000 HAM. The first attack deals 50% damage to the health pool (2500 points), leaving the opponent with 2500 health. The next attack deals 50% more damage to that remaining 2500 health, leaving the opponent with 1250 health. The third attack, if it also hits the health pool, would take off another 50%, leaving them with 625 health, and so on, becoming less powerful the more it is used.) Just a thought, since most really powerful opponents seem to have ridiculous kinetic or stun resistances, which is the whole of the Fencer's arsenal...
Intimidation is another subject I'd like to touch on. It is the bane of fencers everywhere, and can single-handedly turn an encounter against a simple Squill Guardian into an epic and tedious battle of endless hacks and curses. Fencers are connoisseurs of showmanship, virtuosos of bravado, and it is absurd to me that they can be so easily and completely thrown off their game by the very thing they have devoted their entire careers to doing to others. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
Weapons are an oft-mentioned subject so I won't get into it much here. I will just say that I am tired of gaffi sticks. They are ugly, completely lacking in refinement and elegance, and are notably NOT swords, which the consensus demands. Fencers exist with style and panache and these ridiculous clubs just don't cut it. Give us swords, and make them powerful. A fencing master should be the equal of any mind-bashing swordsmanor caveman hammer slinger.
Brainplay
Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:29 am
#17
PhatDaddyDamon wrote:
How many times have you read in books or seen in movies the master swordsman who is able to find the spot under the arm through which to drive his blade or the tendons to slash to cripple or incapacitate him? Give fencers something to make people respect and fear us. No matter how expensive or impressive a suit of armor may be, a true master of fencing should be able to identify and exploit its weaknesses.
Subject has been touched on before. Its the result of writers who've never picked up a blade or worn armor that think armor weighed a ton and made you as slow as a snail. Fact of the matter is that its not going tohappen unless you're fighting someone completely novice. Armor was form fitting, the weight was dispersed evenly, and the only downside was your field of vision depending on the helmet type. Real documentation shows people in full plate armor doing acrobatic's like cartwheels, backflips, and somersaults.
The rest of your statements are really good ideas and I agree with alot of them. 
PhatDaddyDamon
Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:37 am
#18
I understand, but I'm not talking about adding that for the sake of realism. I'm trying to lend to the whole roleplaying aspect of the game. Make fencers more fun, more purposeful.
If this game were focused on realism, it would consist of a bunch of characters in the desert outside Vegas talking about how neat it would be to have laser guns like in those George Lucas movies.
Neige
Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:35 am
#19
I'm all for novelty but IMHO :
What should stay:
- defense must stay the top skill of fencer (and it'll shine if defense stackers disappear and high PVE get reworked)
- fencer mustkeep a "light and fast" melee fighter feeling (lowest speed cap of all, lowest damage of all)
- the added value of being master brawler must be felt (bonus from master brawler should still stack)
- fencer shall always drip Style by every pore of their skin/scales/membrane/whatever
What shouldchange:
- a change in the type of attacks (DOT vs Status change)
- a stat swap of our weapons so that the weapons we get certified for laterare effectively the best ones on average ?
- a master weapon anda master quest to get the master weapon schematic
- armor certification for only the lightest of protections
Brainplay
Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:09 am
#20
Sooooo who owns real stormtrooper armor?! *hijacks thread
PhatDaddyDamon wrote:
If this game were focused on realism, it would consist of a bunch of characters in the desert outside Vegas talking about how neat it would be to have laser guns like in those George Lucas movies.
As if we dont this this enough already in our own homes let alone the desert. Dont forget the Taco's and cheap drinks!
FunkHunter
Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:05 pm
#21
great ideas 5 stars . new role you say... this should be interesting
Galo_Nagant
Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:26 am
#22
Sounds like a great Idea, both hamstringing and rapier type waepons. With dual wield it would be good if we could fight main gouche (rapier typee weapon for swift attack and chunky parrying dagger), for good defence against a 2 handed swordsman to stop them overpowering us for example, dual knives, for getting in adsurdly close to riflemen and dual long weapons/long weapon and free hand for fighting against unarmed types (freehand for parrying, lockups, switching hand etc) but then i appreciate that is absurdly complicated but I just think it would be silly if you parried an 8ft flamberge or some other unfeasibley huge 2handed weapon with a bendy pokey foil.
Brainplay
Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:59 am
#23
Galo_Nagant wrote:
I just think it would be silly if you parried an 8ft flamberge or some other unfeasibley huge 2handed weapon with a bendy pokey foil.
Rapiers weren't foils. Foils didn't exist for a very very long time until the queen of England banned all civilian from publicly wearing a swords. Foils were able to beworn because they WEREN'T CONSIDEREDLEATHAL WEAPONS. The were clothing accessories to make someone look tougher/noble (same as the slashed clothing fashions that popped up in Germany).
Rapiers were thinner than your average beefy one handed sword but not by that much. You did more hack and slash with a rapier than you did thrusting but thanks toHollywood and sport fencing wire weenie types that perception got warped. Armor was limited or gone thanks to firearms making them obsolete so there was no point and using a flamberge anymore. Too much overkill...no pun intended.
Straker_Atrella
Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:43 am
#24
Well if rumors and theories are correct, we can expect a change in how specials work. We will either lose the ability to buff secondaries, or have some seperate system to determine how often specials can be used. Weapon speed will also probably matter much more. Plus specials will actually be affected by time/speed as well.
Under a new system, such as this, combat will be far more tactical. Do I go for a posture change? Should I center of being? Do I go for our new Hamstring, even though it may take 3 times as long as a normal attack. I expect these will all be choices we see.
I think care needs to be taken though to try and keep the "role" of each classes within each class. I have no problem with "dabblers" in professions, but I just don't want somebody to be able to grab one column or a couple of boxes in Fencer and be able to assume our new "role."
Onsa
Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:45 am
#25
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Well if rumors and theories are correct, we can expect a change in how specials work. We will either lose the ability to buff secondaries, or have some seperate system to determine how often specials can be used. Weapon speed will also probably matter much more. Plus specials will actually be affected by time/speed as well.
Under a new system, such as this, combat will be far more tactical. Do I go for a posture change? Should I center of being? Do I go for our new Hamstring, even though it may take 3 times as long as a normal attack. I expect these will all be choices we see.
I think care needs to be taken though to try and keep the "role" of each classes within each class. I have no problem with "dabblers" in professions, but I just don't want somebody to be able to grab one column or a couple of boxes in Fencer and be able to assume our new "role."
Buffs need to get special attention... they can destroy the economy because of it.
arkcher
Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:04 pm
#26
Brainplay wrote:
PhatDaddyDamon wrote:
How many times have you read in books or seen in movies the master swordsman who is able to find the spot under the arm through which to drive his blade or the tendons to slash to cripple or incapacitate him? Give fencers something to make people respect and fear us. No matter how expensive or impressive a suit of armor may be, a true master of fencing should be able to identify and exploit its weaknesses.
Subject has been touched on before. Its the result of writers who've never picked up a blade or worn armor that think armor weighed a ton and made you as slow as a snail. Fact of the matter is that its not going tohappen unless you're fighting someone completely novice. Armor was form fitting, the weight was dispersed evenly, and the only downside was your field of vision depending on the helmet type. Real documentation shows people in full plate armor doing acrobatic's like cartwheels, backflips, and somersaults.
The rest of your statements are really good ideas and I agree with alot of them.
You are right about the Armor heaviness thing. However, I think his point was thatwe should be finding weakpoints in armor.Its not like the armor dosnt have em. Look at Storm Trooper Armor. Look at the Black mesh sections near the arms and legs. The exact thing that makes Armor capable of doing the stunts above is what can make more of a hindrance than a life saver at times. If your wearing a suit of say, Composite, which is supposed to be very heavy (Id assume about 40 pounds or more) and your oppenent is wearing no armor but is very fast. If He getsyou in the backs of the Knees, under the Arm or in the neck, your as good as dead.