Fencer Archive

Well, I'd say being a master fencer would be highly specialized

Mostly, I was just interested in dual wielding for the style factor. I think it just looks cool to dual wield, and tend to do it in any game system that I can, regardless of the penalties. But it does seem kind of a waste to use a 1h melee weapon and not use the offhand for anything. Having a shield or a parrying dagger to equip would be nice.

Thank you for bringing up Musashi I'm sure one of my former instructors would kill me for forgetting him. The Epitomy of the one shot kill swordsman.

I would bet more than anything that we won't ever see dual wielding because they would have to go and remodel every single fencer animation to have a second option, one adding a second weapon.

Now I'm no programerbut I got some serious money that the teams doing that sort of work is knee deep in Space Expansion, and even if they did get on this we probably wouldn't see it in play even on test for well over a year.

So patience, in the meantime maybe the art team can come out of their bantha mount and landspeeder induced coma's to work us up a shield or two.

Minerunner

Don't be too skeptical... they just added a bunch of new flourishes (specialdance steps/skills) to the Dancer profession, which are more complicated than a simple shield-block animation would be. Especially if you just hoked a shield object to the free hand, just like they currently do when you equip a pair of gloves.

In the end, the programming would be adding a 1h Shield to the equipment slots on your character, making a few shield objects, and writing code to place a shield object over your hand object the same way they already do with gloves.

I'm sure it's hard to program, but conceptually it's nothing new.

Musashi's inspiration (according to legend) for the Two Heavens style (I think I remember that name) was watching the Koto Drummers. This strongly suggests to me that the style was not passive/defensive in the second blade.

The "wait for the other guy to make his move" scenario is a common theme in which two masters confront each other and each sees that the other has adopted the proper defensive posture to counter their attacking style. They make adjustments to stance and postureand elicit responses without crossing blades until someone goofs. A dramatic example of this is the beach duel between Musashi and Sasaki Kojiro, though here Musashi used a single weapon, a wooden sword whittled from an oar as he was being rowed to the island where the duel was held. When Kojiro finally lost his composure and attacked Musashi finished him with one stroke.

It strikes me that the sensible answer to dual wield in the SWG context is that the off hand should wield the bad-assedest pistol you can handle 8).

Just my 2cr.

Back to the post by Minerunner about RL dual wielding weapons....

African style of stick fighting?? Learned from toddlerhood? need to be ambidextrous??? I disagree.... Dual wielding has many RL examples. It just hasn't been formalized by too many fighting systems, probably for several reasons that would include things like the invention of fighting rules in RL history. Arnis is a fighting style that uses two sticks, or one stick, does not require learning from toddlerhood, and is somehting that only a onearmed man )or woman) couldn't learn.

But lets look at some other realism....two handed fighting...what about guns? If we get dual wield into the game for one hand melee, then they must put it in for pistoleer. can a person hold two pistols and fire at the same or concurrent times?

Keep it one hand fighting..and only one hand....that other hand provides balance and helps with defense...try it at home...tie your off hand to your side (or just stick it in your pocket) and try to swing a broom stick around in your backyard. Natural instinct is to use the other hadn for balace. This hand can also be used for defense in close combat. In arnis..fighting with one stick, the other hand is still involved in the fight. I think that defensinv moves and evasion in SWG fencing already takes into account all this without going into detail about it...

oh well...no tiem left to continue the post...

tie,

MaK

Well i was thinking about the shields and in KOTOR they have dueling shields i dont know if they still had them in this time but i think a dueling shield would stay with the theme of the fencer.. just my 2cents

A little background on my RL might be nessecary here. I am part of a medieval recreationist group (Not the SCA)who fights with period style rapiers, the ultimate in one handed swordsmanship. There are several documented fighting forms associated with rapier, among these being the previously mentioned Florentine as well as sword and Gauche (or dagger) that was wielded in the off hand and used for close in fighting and defense. The other forms of fighting were with small hand shields called bucklers. The actual term "Swashbuckler" came from the swooshing sound that people made when their swords rubbed up against their shield. Also the african form of fighting is with a weapon called a Madu which is identical to the dual saber style that Darth Maul used in episode one.

So to say it's not authentic or documentable is incorrect. Now would it make us the most overpowered class in the game....I'm not sure it would. As long as you made fighting with two weapons a mind drain, and a pretty hefty one at that, it would balance out. Using two weapons is one of the most difficult skills to master, especially florentine as you are using two swords of the same size it is VERY easy to get yourself tangled up in them and leave yourself wide open for a shot or two.

Anyways,

In regards to the Musashi Conversation. In the Book of 5 rings Musashi comments that using the smaller sword or waskisahi wasn't as good as using two Long Swords. Using the wakisahi was not something that Musashi invented, but a standard style taught by many schools to use as a parrying weapon. Musashibelieve in attack, thats why hefavored another attacking weapon over a defensiveweapon. Musashi was a hulk of a man and very strong so he could use two long blades as he fought. Remeber he wasn't only a master dueler, but one of the principle of the Book of 5 rings is how one man can take on many. I believe the quote is something like, "in this way, one may take on 10, 10 may take on 100, and 100 1,000." He reportedly took on 100 men at one time once andwon, sohe must have beendoing something right. Musashi was a beast though andwon his most famous duel with an oar he carved into a weapon on his way there. I should also like to mention that several asian styles use duel weapons of equal size, so duel wielding is not just cool, but has practicality as well. I personally think it would be cool to duel wield, but I agree that if you could, than everyone would probubly do it, and that would be lame.

Azre'el Blain

Starstrider

It really would add a nice flare to the fencer profession, though. I dont think 'everyone' would do it.. As it is, we're supposed to be the class with finesse - I dont feel too deft, do you?

As far as dual wielding in SW.....Anakin in Ep2 was already mentioned, and don't forget Count Dooku in the scene that ended up on the cutting room floor (special Edition anyone?) where he uses 2 lightsabers to fight Yoda once Yoda proves to be a tougher adversary than he anticipated. So there is 3 examples of dual wielding in the movies...not counting EU.

Some Wookiees were know to use 2 Ryyk blades when fighting. That's one big wirling furball of death!

I've read the Book of Five Rings and Musashi vehemently puts down defensive fighting. He himself preached a balance, with the sole intent of victory. He went into an entire book based on the other schools and what their errors were, and, as I recall, he had a nice, long paragraph about why it was bad to defensively fight and mentioned it again several times later. So, I find that wakizashi defense and katanaoverthehead thing a little hard to believe. The two longswords thing, too, is odd... typically two long blades get tangled up in each other. I've dual-wielded for a long time now and fence epee (not at the same time) and know how unbalancing it is. With Jedi, it's understandable. I mean. There's no weight involved. It makes perfect sense to dual wield, if you don't like the strength behind two hands. But with other classes, it would be a bit awkward. As mentioned before, there should be a whole lotta penalties. As for Musashi, though, he didn't mention which he preffered personally a lot, so I take it that comes from legends, which may or may not be true. And, if he were that big, a real katana wouldn't be that long anyway. The Japanese were pretty short back then. ;}

I know that's a long babble, but, when it comes to the game, I agree that EVERYONE would be using it. Not only does dual-wielding tend to be massively better in most games (ie, Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights), it's also the style of Drizzt Do'Urden. Yeah, I know that turned some heads. Since starting D&D, I've learned that absolutely everyone, excepting a few people who actually *roleplay*, wants to be Drizzt. Even on a Star Wars game, I guarantee you three out of everyfour brawlers/fencers/ranger/whatever would be running around with dual curved swords and hacking at things. I personally like the variety of the different players now--granted, there's not a whole lot of choice in weaponry, but each weapon is essentially the same basic hurtstick with its own perks and flaws. That's what gives combat flavour. I don't really want it to come down to who can deliver the worst blows the fastest... that's just no fun. So far, I've noticed it really makes a difference if you keep some variety in who you're grouping with. Not a huge difference sometimes. But a difference. ;P

Oh. And yes, shields would both make sense and kick ass in the game. ;D No problems there. Sorry for the long read.

I just have to point out that the Arnis/Escrima/Kali school of Filipino dual-sword wielding is a fairly old art and was used in the rebellion against the Spanish. In more recent times, Dan Inosanto taught Bruce Lee this and it became a part of the teachings of Bruce Lee's own style, Jeet Kune Do. So yes, dual-wielding is still present in the modern times, was effective, and isnow a core part of arguably one of the best martial arts period.

I want to add something to this dual wiedling style. In Chinese martial arts, the chinese long sword and the chinese broad sword can be use as either one handed sword or dual wield. There is also a style for a round shield and a broad sword.

Famous schools like Shao-lin or Wu Dang all have both style in their asenal. Beside sword, short spear, mace, knife, axe can also be dual wield. Depends on what school you are from, they could be very different.

Dual wield long swords are very well known woman sword fighting style. There are also a few characters in China's history that are dual wield swords. Liu Bei is one.