Entertainer Archive

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JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.

We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.

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Jeff,

This isn't right and you know it. Give the 'props' line to tailors. They're the ones with the 'Costumier' title (Formal Wear IV). And believe me, I REALLY want a fake mabari helmet back (in white, please) (see here). You want to give us costumes and props? How about fixingplayer theatres so we have an appropriate venue in which to USE said costumes and props? Smack Pex upside the head while you're at it. Half the things the Event Coordinator NPC's hand out should be available from entertainers. WE should be SWG's "cruise directors", not an NPC.

*obligatory /badfeeling*

*breathes*

Pronouncements from upon high about "how things will be" are not the way to get SWG's "socializer" quarter to jump on board. You've got to talk WITH us. Its what we do. Its what we're good at. (You're not afraid? You will be. Yooou.. will be.) Nobody's afraid of pissed-off entertainers. We can't even zerg-rush the devs like a bunch of naked wookiees in front of the Theed starport demanding armor. AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING WE DO (back off, Tiggs ). You've read Richard Bartle's Designing Virtual Worlds, right? It was linked off the launchpad a little before the holidays last year. (Unfortunately, the links from that little thing don't appear to be archived anywhere so I can't provide one for the rest of the readers here, but .. look it up on Amazon, beg/borrow/buy a copy from somewhere, its a VERY interesting read.) Was that required reading for the entire development staff? Cause if it was, you're failing to appease the 'socializer' players, and are in the express-lane to a pink-slip. Yep, you've bent over backwards for the 'powergamers', AS YOU SHOULD HAVE. Don't get me wrong, they're the least patient of the lot that don't cancel after their free month is over and done with. Its the 'socializer' archetypes that keep the thing running! And you're nerfing us out of house and home! Maybe 'nerfing' is too strong a word. Neglecting isn't strong enough though. You've demonstrated no second thoughts about taking away from entertainers to give 'balance' to everyone else. Oh I'm sure some quiet voices gave stern looks at that monday morning meeting when it was decided to do away with mind buffs. I don't think you're all monsters.

I'm sorry, this moved from a well-crafted gripe to a full-blown rant, and the last thing I want to do is give you more reason to avoid interacting with us. Therein lies the rub though. We're growing impatient, and the longer it goes without some teamwork on entertainer issues, the more peeve'd we're gonna get. The more peeve'd we get, the less likely you are to want to talk to us. But you've GOT to. Suck it up. Leave us alone for too much longer and our numbers will drop far enough to start effecting the combat classes... or wait, is that the idea? That's a disturbing thought. Go stick your head in marketing's door and ask them with a straight face if they want SWG to die? Surely those couple million dollars a month from subscription fees aren't merely a drop in the bucket to the parent company? Maybe they are, maybe this is all just a grand experiment.

Hell no, I'm not threatening to quit. I'm trying to point a few things out here. I apologize for reading like I'm up in your face. You're one of the few devs I've felt my posting style actually made a dent on, and you deserve better treatment from the people you think you're trying to help. We just want you to know we don't think this IS gonna help in the end.

(final edit: Can we get a little love from the Lithium folks about keeping us logged in while writing rants like this? Forums logged me out by the time I'd hit post. Glad I copied the whole thing to notepad before attempting to edit as HTML, sheesh)

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KzinKiller wrote:

It's spin either way you look at it. You're going to an Entertainer to get something you need -- BF healing. You go to your weaponsmith when you're out of power-ups, you go to your Chef when you're out of food, you go to Docs when you have wounds, you go to your armorsmith when your helmet falls apart ..... and you go to your Entertainer for furniture?

Even if I agreed that taking out BF was good, which I don't particularly, they took away a key Entertainer revenue stream and replaced it with exactly nothing, a completely irrelevant game mechanic in a game where more and more of the code changes seem to do nothing to respond to key customer complaints, but add lots of useless fluff that nobody asked for. You really wonder what's on the menu during their meetings.

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Message Edited by SmedleyLlama on 06-17-2005 05:34 PM

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JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.

We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.

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wth!?!?!?! so what you giving us instead?i never come to these broads casue im to lazy but lynn posted something aboutthis. I've been an m dancer m musician m id then dropped them missed them way to much and got m id and im wroking on dancer again. i never go afk. ive made a lot of friends in the cantina.ihave been in the cantina when i was the only person atk. ive dealt with the afk'ers spam and everything butif you take bf away what are we goning to do now? you already took away our mind wounds you gave us differnt buffs. And now you take bf away? i dont get it jsut, wow. i cant belive this crap.

i honestly see one of my accounts be cancaled in the near furture

Based on decisions like these, it's becoming increasingly difficult to believe that the Devs are even playing the game...

Message Edited by GotBlueMilk on 06-17-2005 02:47 PM

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SmedleyLlama wrote:

I disagree but if you can answer me this, I might be willing to go along with you:

Why is there never an uproar about going to a weaponsmith for a weapon, a doctor for wound removal, or a chef for food, but everytime the topic of BF comes up there is a rather large forum scuffle that breaks out?

Message Edited by SmedleyLlama on 06-17-2005 05:34 PM

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TK316de wrote:

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SmedleyLlama wrote:

I disagree but if you can answer me this, I might be willing to go along with you:

Why is there never an uproar about going to a weaponsmith for a weapon, a doctor for wound removal, or a chef for food, but everytime the topic of BF comes up there is a rather large forum scuffle that breaks out?

Message Edited by SmedleyLlama on 06-17-2005 05:34 PM

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Let me answer with a counterquestion, if I may...

How, do you think, would the weapon- or armorsmiths react, if everyone could make their weapon or armor themself ? Or, even better if no weapons and armor would be needed anymore ? Instead, those ould craft instruments, which arent really intruments, but the LOOK like instruments.

Going to a WS or AS is needed and everyone knows that. Just as visiting an ent to get BF healed is needed. Why is the one acceptable and the other is a nuisance?

Please...explain that to me...so far, you couldn't.

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First questions: There would be a great outcry from the WS & AS players.

Second question: Because most of the player base enjoys looking for a good weapon, armor, etc.. But going to the cantina to sit and wait for your BF to go down is considered by many to be less enjoyable, and therefore... as you say.. a nuisance.

So, wouldn't it be a good thing to take away the "nuisance" factor and replace it with something the playerbase found enjoyable instead?

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SmedleyLlama wrote:

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TK316de wrote:

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SmedleyLlama wrote:

I disagree but if you can answer me this, I might be willing to go along with you:

Why is there never an uproar about going to a weaponsmith for a weapon, a doctor for wound removal, or a chef for food, but everytime the topic of BF comes up there is a rather large forum scuffle that breaks out?

Message Edited by SmedleyLlama on 06-17-2005 05:34 PM

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Let me answer with a counterquestion, if I may...

How, do you think, would the weapon- or armorsmiths react, if everyone could make their weapon or armor themself ? Or, even better if no weapons and armor would be needed anymore ? Instead, those ould craft instruments, which arent really intruments, but the LOOK like instruments.

Going to a WS or AS is needed and everyone knows that. Just as visiting an ent to get BF healed is needed. Why is the one acceptable and the other is a nuisance?

Please...explain that to me...so far, you couldn't.

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First questions: There would be a great outcry from the WS & AS players.

This is EXACTLY why there is an outcry here now. Entertainers want to be usefull, not just be some hopping toon that is nice to look at , but basically useless.

Second question: Because most of the player base enjoys looking for a good weapon, armor, etc.. But going to the cantina to sit and wait for your BF to go down is considered by many to be less enjoyable, and therefore... as you say.. a nuisance.

From my point of view, travelling all over the galaxy to find good stuff is just as a nuisance. Yet one is deemed more acceptable.

So, wouldn't it be a good thing to take away the "nuisance" factor and replace it with something the playerbase found enjoyable instead?

Please let me pick up armor and stuff from the vendor where I bought it, and not have me travel to the shop where the vendor is to pick it up. Because buying stuff in Theed and having to travel to, say Lok to pick it up, is not really fun.See what I mean ? There ARE some nuisances in the game, there are no doubts. And if those changes which they have in mind are really enjoyable..I am sorry, but I have my sincere doubts there.

If ppl go to an entertainer ONLY to get their BF removed, why would they have a reason to go see one when that is gone? Why have entertainers at all ? They will serve no purpose, apart from being a hopping toon. And why be something that an NPC could do just as good?

You have to understand that entertainers love their profession, although they serve little purpose already. But with less and less usefulness will be less and less patrons. Yes, granted, there will be venues and occasions when a band is needed to create some athmosphere. But often does that happen? Once a month? Twice?

That is simply not enough. And please....I speak for myself...I dont want to say, that I represent the whole entertainer community.

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TK316de wrote:

From my point of view, travelling all over the galaxy to find good stuff is just as a nuisance. Yet one is deemed more acceptable.

Please let me pick up armor and stuff from the vendor where I bought it, and not have me travel to the shop where the vendor is to pick it up. Because buying stuff in Theed and having to travel to, say Lok to pick it up, is not really fun.See what I mean ? There ARE some nuisances in the game, there are no doubts. And if those changes which they have in mind are really enjoyable..I am sorry, but I have my sincere doubts there.

Yes, I agree, However those "nuisances" don't seem to garner the same passions this particular "nuisance" does. Why is that?

If ppl go to an entertainer ONLY to get their BF removed, why would they have a reason to go see one when that is gone? Why have entertainers at all ? They will serve no purpose, apart from being a hopping toon. And why be something that an NPC could do just as good?

The real question here is why would an entertainer want people to come to them only because they are forced to? Wouldn't they rather be given a way to make people really "want" to come to them?

You have to understand that entertainers love their profession, although they serve little purpose already. But with less and less usefulness will be less and less patrons. Yes, granted, there will be venues and occasions when a band is needed to create some athmosphere. But often does that happen? Once a month? Twice?

That is simply not enough. And please....I speak for myself...I dont want to say, that I represent the whole entertainer community.

Then the real solution isn't forcing people to come to the entertainer, but making them want to do so. I don't go to a concert in RL because I have to.. I do it because I want to. Because I get enjoyment from doing so. That's where the Pro-BF argument goes off track.

EDIT: I shall retire form the conversation now as I never really expected to get into a full scale debate.

I close with this thought: I hope that someday the players can go to the cantina out of desire, and not dread.

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Message Edited by SmedleyLlama on 06-17-2005 06:12 PM

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Mistwaver wrote:

Ugh! I know what you mean ... I just got a sharp pain in the top of my head when I read that.

/sigh

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No, Reeli! This is a good thing! There has never been anything fun about BF for either side, the one getting it or the one healing it. The fun thing is the interaction, but that can be done so much better by allowing Ents to be tradeskill buffers.

No other game has ever had a support system in place for crafters... this is huge for both Crafters and Entertainers. This really could only happen in SWG, the first game that has ever truly created a player crafted economy with real shops and store fronts.

This allows a full game to be played out in the cities, the "down time" areas.

I know you have a Jedi Healer as well as an Entso you are probably worried about losing the interaction from healing BF as a Jedi, but BF was just a contrived weirdness made purelyto create interaction for Social players that didn't want to have anything to do with direct combat.

The Jedi Healers just inherited the weirdness that was only ever there for Entertainer Players as a reward. The very fact that Jedi could heal BF made the whole point of the thing moot. Hopefully now Jedi Healers will be given something else that is uniquely their own and will suit their Healer gameplay much better.

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Keatsnam wrote:
For the people that are concerned that lack of BF will keep people from the cantinas, how about giving entertainers more buff options (which I actually thought was planned)? For example, some sort of buff that increases "To Hit" or increases damage mitigation. It's no crazier than giving people an XP bonus, plus could sort of be justified. The music and show could get people in the audience amped up and more aggressive, with better fighting skills.

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• Smugglers could watch a dancer and receive a bonus to his/her slicing. (This has already been mentioned in this thread, I know.) They already receive a 125-faction-point bonus when buying faction while buffed.


• Rangers could track within a wider area.


• Merchants could list bazaar auctions for free.


• Tailors could gain access to a wider palette of colors on certain items. (Red go-go boots, anyone?)


• Jedi could receive an 'visibility buff' that would DECREASE (not remove entirely) their chances of showing up on the terminals.


• Shipwrights could receive a higher reverse-engineering bonus, or perhaps increase the possibility of gaining a Firespray disk fragment.

With 30-something professions in the game, the possibilities here are ENDLESS! Not to MENTION the props concept - something entertainers have been begging for for a very, VERY long time. (Fans plz kkthx.) And the ideas above are just things I came up with off the top of my head. Think of the bonuses to combat professions - accuracy buffs, range buffs (as a pistoleer, I know I'd love to be able to hit something from further away than 25m). I know some entertainers aren't overly keen on the concept of crafting - which is perfect, because I know some of us would love to be able to do that and sell to other players!

I could kiss the developers right now for this.