Entertainer Archive
Thread: Pub.23 Can't buff myself anymore...
Let's say I'm a tailor and I take on BE. As a BE, I make tissues. I can't use those tissues until I get my secondary skillset, tailor. I can, however, as a tailor use BE tissues that I produced. I do not need to buy the BE tissues from another bioengineer to make them useful to my tailor skillset.
Let's say I'm a tailor and I take on dancer. As a dancer I can buff tailoring, which does me no good unless I'm a tailor. However, now that I am a tailor, why shouldn't my dancer skillset be able to benefit my tailor skillset just as my dancer skillset benefits others' tailor skillset?
The above example should illustrate the inherent unfairness in this situation, as well as its uniqueness in the game.
TheNarcis wrote:
You make valid Real World points. But sometimes you have to think outside the box, and realize ultimately this is a game. And sometimes game mechanics can be effected positively or negatively thus certain ramifications need to be addressed or instilled.
Again this is a "Role Playing Game". Since you put in Real World Logic, you can basically "role play" your inspiring self, and not have something effecting you in the long run. Which would be no-one looking for an entertainer if they can do so themselves at a young state.
Yeah, you're right...comparing things to real world logic is kind of a wrong way to go in general with games. TH, though (or whomever he was quoting) insinuated that real world logic dictated why Entertainers couldn't self buff...when in reality, the Entertainer/Musician/Dancer almost always will inspire themselves, however their inspirational effect on their audience is NOT a definite. SWG has this totally backwards.
Eh, I just think it totally sucks that for the longest time, we couldn't self-buff. Then they let us self-buff after we'd asked for sooooo long - once the CU hit. Now, we're back at no self-buffing...and I fail to see why they changed direction, aside from the reasoning that people could spend 15 skill points and get our buffs themselves - oh wait, that's been the case since the CU went Live and no Dev seemed to give a hoot about it at all, though people were upset by it 
Anyhow, the self-inspiring comment that TH posted hit a nerve because I fully maintain that every real-life entertainer, musician, or dancer inspires themself everytime they practice their art - how much they inspire their audience, however, is never a definite.
Warryyr wrote:
TheNarcis wrote:
You make valid Real World points. But sometimes you have to think outside the box, and realize ultimately this is a game. And sometimes game mechanics can be effected positively or negatively thus certain ramifications need to be addressed or instilled.
Again this is a "Role Playing Game". Since you put in Real World Logic, you can basically "role play" your inspiring self, and not have something effecting you in the long run. Which would be no-one looking for an entertainer if they can do so themselves at a young state.
Yeah, you're right...comparing things to real world logic is kind of a wrong way to go in general with games. TH, though (or whomever he was quoting) insinuated that real world logic dictated why Entertainers couldn't self buff...when in reality, the Entertainer/Musician/Dancer almost always will inspire themselves, however their inspirational effect on their audience is NOT a definite. SWG has this totally backwards.
Eh, I just think it totally sucks that for the longest time, we couldn't self-buff. Then they let us self-buff after we'd asked for sooooo long - once the CU hit. Now, we're back at no self-buffing...and I fail to see why they changed direction, aside from the reasoning that people could spend 15 skill points and get our buffs themselves - oh wait, that's been the case since the CU went Live and no Dev seemed to give a hoot about it at all, though people were upset by it
Anyhow, the self-inspiring comment that TH posted hit a nerve because I fully maintain that every real-life entertainer, musician, or dancer inspires themself everytime they practice their art - how much they inspire their audience, however, is never a definite.
With how you felt about his comment I can totally sympethize with you. He should not have used'Real World'logic as well. This is a game we are dealing with.
Unfortunately they are being very notorious for giving then taking away lately.
--They did it with ADKs and Jedi Lightsabers (bad call so it was put back to normal).
--Took Premium/Flawless Pearls/Crystals away (leaving Jedi witht heir only source of weaponry at a dismay).
--They then did it to the Naboo Medium House footprint (which was a benefit and a game mechanic advertised since day one, I remember TH saying "so they can be stacked like townhouses/condos").
--They tried it with the XP changes (which ultimately bombed).
--Now they are doing it with the Entertainers and self buffing which I can totally understand the frustration.
Also Docs should not be able to "augment" themselves if an Entertainer doesnt "inspire" themselves.
Message Edited by TheNarcis on 09-01-2005 06:48 PM
Thunderheart wrote:
On the game side of things, basic Inspiration Buffs come early. The concern is that folks can take just a few basic skills to buff themselves and the Inspiration Buffs provided by dedicated Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be in as much demand as they should be because other players will be able to do it themselves.
Okay, this is why I assumed we couldn't self-buff any more, and it does make sense.
But what doesn't make sense is that when you factor in the fact that every NPC cantina that has patron traffic has at least a half dozen AFK levellers and post-master level buffbots and every populated player city has at least one buffbot in its cantina dispensing the passive "entertainer" level inspiration buff, how can you even suggest that this buff is in demand from live entertainers?
I could definitely live with having masters be able to self buff all types of inspirations that their profession handles. It wouldn't allow "dabblers" to undercut full time entertainers, and it would give an added bonus to masteries (something the community has felt was lacking, of late).
As for the passive buff -- why do we even need it? It would solve so many problems to just make it active and the default on the /inspire window "no buff."
Making all inspirations require activation would:
Get rid of buffbots, and the idea that it's "okay" to leave your Master Dancer AFK in Theed 24/7 spamming advertisements for your guild's vendors because you're "providing a needed serivce."
Get rid of the buff overwriting issue and let people listen to musicians while buffed, which very much needs to be resolved ASAP.
Compensate live ents with another service in exchange for the (very minimal) decreased business that letting masters self buff would result in.
At least with the old buffs, we could give the buff we were able to with any method we wished. It would be great if we could administer the Dancer buffs while playing music as long as we have the proper skill box to give it. It is quickly apparent, however, that if an issue is not brought up in the Jedi forum, it is swiftly ignored.
Unless I missed the threads where Fencers were given information on the broken Bloodshot Ripper certification, Squad Leaders were given any hope, Rangers had it explained why they are neither a combat nor an inspirable profession, or ANY sort of "In Concept," "In Development," or "In Testing" threads for the Entertainer changes.
I apologize if I seem overly critical, I know that the job of the developers is to take care of the greatest number of players, which is why Jedi and combat players get the majority of the attention. It would just be nice to know that we are thought of more than in a cursory manner, or that our input is desired/appreciated/considered.
Greetings,
Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be able to buff themselves with Inspiration Buffs.
Here's why:
On the game side of things, basic Inspiration Buffs come early. The concern is that folks can take just a few basic skills to buff themselves and the Inspiration Buffs provided by dedicated Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be in as much demand as they should be because other players will be able to do it themselves.
While I understand that it certainly isn't as convenient as it would be to buff yourselves, other players will want that same convenience for themselves. They will buy a small amount of skills for the convenience and the demand for your Inspiration Buffs will drop.
Simply for the sake of discussion: conceptually, the idea of the buff is that your character is "inspired" by watching a fantastic entertainer perform for you. Inspiring yourself by entertaining, dancing or playing music is certainly possible, but it isn't typical.
Thats stupid sorry....
as i logged this morning i tried to find a Musician to give me a Weaponsmith-Inspire ....
i went from cantina to cantina on all Planets to find a Novice Musician...
i found many of them but all i found was afk.....
i had enough skillpoint left to get novice musician and i would be nice to inspire myself...
because after 90min of searching i was tired to search more so i went home and crafted without a buff...
in 2 words STUPID CHANGES
Lowara
I like how he answers one post three times but completely ignore yours, when if anything it is more valid, I as well am a WS/entertainer that can no longer buff myself, and am really pissed about the lack of non afk entertainers, making it virtually impossible to get a inspiration buff, thanks alot devs, for once again ruining something everybody finds useful, in the attempt to placate a much smaller group, and it appears as if that groups not very happy about it either.
Message Edited by stupidbink on 09-01-2005 11:43 PM
stupidbink wrote:
I like how he answers one post three times but completely ignore yours, when if anything it is more valid, I as well am a WS/entertainer that can no longer buff myself, and am really pissed about the lack of non afk entertainers, making it virtually impossible to get a inspiration buff, thanks alot devs, for once again ruining something everybody finds useful, in the attempt to placate a much smaller group, and it appears as if that groups not very happy about it either.Message Edited by stupidbink on 09-01-2005 11:43 PM
So why is your solution to further punish entertainers instead of addressing the reasons why there are not ATK entertainers to be found in the first place?
Doriana wrote:
stupidbink wrote:
I like how he answers one post three times but completely ignore yours, when if anything it is more valid, I as well am a WS/entertainer that can no longer buff myself, and am really pissed about the lack of non afk entertainers, making it virtually impossible to get a inspiration buff, thanks alot devs, for once again ruining something everybody finds useful, in the attempt to placate a much smaller group, and it appears as if that groups not very happy about it either.
Message Edited by stupidbink on 09-01-2005 11:43 PM
So why is your solution to further punish entertainers instead of addressing the reasons why there are not ATK entertainers to be found in the first place?
To add to that, the game needs NPC Image Designers. Can never findplayer ones anymoreeither. Just make it rediculous amount of credits ... like 50-100K a change. /shrug
Message Edited by TheNarcis on 09-02-2005 12:06 AM
I would like to point out that the doc buff vs entertainer inspirations are not a fair comparison. Doctors are a 50/50 support profession (they have always helped themselves as much or more then those around themselves) I would think that comparing entertainer inspirations would be more on par with the Squad Leader Role. A profession that sacrifices combat effectiveness to help others be more competent (a 90/10 support profession).
Skills such as
This Squad Leader ability allows the leader to cure Dizzy and Stunned states of their squad members. This ability costs more to the leader based on how many group members are in the group at the time the ability is used. Use the /setformup command to set the message that the Squad Leader shouts when this command is used. The Squad Leader must be the leader of the party/group for this to function. Can not be used when dizzied or stunned.
This very powerful Squad Leader ability drains the Squad Leader's Action and Mind pools while giving their entire group Burst Run. Intended for hard encounters gone horribly wrong, it allows the Squad Leader to show true leadership by sacrificing themself for the greater good of their group.
That is all well and good, but Squad leader has so many more things that we do not have:
Armour use, and mitigation.
Weapon certification.
Combat level utility.
So, even if the Squad Leader had no squad, there are still benefits from the squad leader profession, regardless of who is around him, or her.
Plus, even the squad leader benefits himself from his own abilities, because his abilities affect the squad...and he is part of the squad too.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-02-2005 01:08 AM