Entertainer Archive
Thread: Entertainer Protest Tuesdays Join the Jam for an Entertainer Revamp!
TuvarSwaeda
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:19 pm
#53
Aleyo wrote:
TuvarSwaeda wrote:
Anyway, I guess we'll see what happens...good luck with your portest. and thanx in advance for the extra lag, thats a great way to get attention, slow everyone down and ruin their enjoyment for a useless cause!
EDIT: It seems fairly obvious that someone just went through and one starred everyone that disagreed with this idea...so i await my fate.
Message Edited by TuvarSwaeda on 06-15-2004 01:01 PM
If anyone one-stars you, I would assume it's for the sarcasm you display here, rather than your disagreement with the idea.
Not to mention that the main purpose of the protest is to stand up for the entertainers that are *not* afk, and want to get rid of those that are afk with new varied content (from the little I've heard of the entertainer 'quests', they sound a lot like the worthless entertainer missions, with a little bit more flavor.. but I haven't heard very much like I said).
-Scipionus Mentus
sarcasm or not....thats exactly what this "protest" will be. A bunch of people standing around lagging anyone who comes by. Also, i didnt see too much sarcasm in any of the other posts that got one-starred, so i doubt sarcasm was the prerequisite emote for the one star.
Have you tested the new quests? You are just jumping on another one of the "im pissed...pay attention to me" bandwagons. Wait and see what you get, or get your ass on TC and help to make it better instead of slowing down those who just dont care, and are only trying to enjoy the game THEIR way, just as you want to enjoy it your way.
The devs arent going to suffer if you lag a few players, and very few people will file a complaint about some entertainers playing their instruments or dancing around. Finally...i do hope that none of you just place your entertainer their for the lag factor, and then go AFK for a few hours.
picklesSW
Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:23 pm
#55
"Why would the devs put any more resources than they already are into a profession that is not even at their computer most of the time?"
Which profession needs more help...a profession that a lot of people play but has some broken skills, or a profession where 80% of the people who play it find it SO boring that they step away from the keys?
Which profession needs more help...a profession that a lot of people play but has some broken skills, or a profession where 80% of the people who play it find it SO boring that they step away from the keys?
Xyrdre
Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:38 pm
#56
TuvarSwaeda wrote:
Have you tested the new quests? You are just jumping on another one of the "im pissed...pay attention to me" bandwagons. Wait and see what you get, or get your ass on TC and help to make it better instead of slowing down those who just dont care, and are only trying to enjoy the game THEIR way, just as you want to enjoy it your way.
I'm testing the new quests extensively on TC. Thusfar, they're nothing more than exaggerated new player helper-droid quests. I am hoping that they get better as more of the code is introduced for testing, but right now... in my opinion, they lack.
The entertainer quests on TC do nothing, however, in repairing any of the broken dances that won't display to others properly, in correcting buggy buffing code, in providing unique sounds to different musical instruments, in preventing theAFKers and buffbots that are undermining the entire social playstyle that was touted as a unique feature of SWG. In other words... it's about having attention to our gameplay issues moreso than spoonfed "content".
Perhaps even more than that, it's about the silence. There has been no contact from any red name in any of the entertainer forums for a very long time. There has been no acknowledgement that there are issues for the players of the social playstyle that are game breaking. There has only been silence. And in this silence, is there any wonder that the faithful have cried out, "my Devs, why hath thou forsaken us?"
One cannot be surprised at the levels of frustration to be found here.
The community has spoken, and spoken, and spoken, about what we think we need to improve our gameplay in the "exciting new type of profession in MMO gaming" and our "social" playstyle. Playing or dancing in front of NPC's isn't going to fix anything. I fear that the devs simply do not yet understand what we, the players of the "social playstyle", get out of this playstyle that makes it fun for us. And I think therein lies the heart of the problem - the devs may well be trying to find a way to make us happy, but may be barking up the wrong tree with NPC quests and static locales such as a Hutt casino.
Caveat - these things may end up being an awful lot of fun, I don't know yet. But it will likely be at least another 6 months before we see the Hutt casino, and none of these boardsreceived an apology the way the Smuggler board did for their revamp delay. Again, only silence... and a casual note in the state of the game letter that it was pushed back. I think to many it was like hearing third-hand from a stranger that your spouse has died.And we still have the same 5 instrument sounds... the same broken base dances... the same missing flourishes to the Master level dances... that were broken and/or missing since the beginning.
I still don't think that a "protest" is the right way to go about it. I have doubts that the wookiee protest was effective in the way that it has appeared to many. I doubt that the devs simply "caved in" tothefamous "squeaky wheel".Someone else posted that the wookiee armor was already in the works, and thatthe protestmay have stepped up the timetable a touch, which sounds a bit more plausible to me. Anyone who has kept up on any of the entertainer boards knows well enough that the wheel has been shrieking for a very long time, and hasthat had any positive effect whatsoever?
No, I don't think that a "protest" is the right approach, though it may come down to a semantic difference. I would personallyrather that these gatherings were more of a showing that real, live performers are still here, and are still vital... however many of us are left after thesedamaging practices of AFK and buffbottinghave been allowed togrow to near epic proportions. That we, the collective "social playstyle" have been driven out of the cantinas, the planned"social hubs"as intended by the devs, by the most anti-social creature imaginable - the unattended character. And that we, the performers and entertainers, do not have enough of thetools needed to carry on the show... and that many of the tools that we do have still simply do not work even after a year. And I think that's what is really being called for here, rather than a gathering of whining and shouting "We Demand Attention! We Will Not Be Ignored! Entertainer Powah!", which many assume is the nature of a protest.
My schedule will prevent me from attending today. So I say to you that are attending - keep things in the spirit intended, and do not sink to whining. Perhaps some good can come of this after all.
Ulic
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:26 pm
#57
The "party" is going well on Ahazi, but we need some people, come on out, support your entertainers!
TuvarSwaeda
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:30 pm
#58
Xyrdre wrote:
alot, i didnt want to clutter, please refer above for the content...
I agree that in its current state, the entertianer professions, for the non-afk,are little more than a chat room that you pay a $15 monthly fee to use, and for the grinders, its a break from the virtual world and a chance to get some fresh air before diving head long back into the rest of the grind. But what exactly are you asking for?You are a tester, a very important individual to the entire community, so of anyone, your opinion is highly valued. But yet you offer no suggestions.
You obvioulsy enjoy your choisen profession, so much so that when the Hutt Casino was postponed you suffered the same psychological ramifications as one who off handedly discovers that theirspouse has died (perhaps a little bit of an over reaction??? i dont know, we all react differently). And as for the broken specials, I personally didnt see anything wrong with any of the dances or flourishes when i worked my way through.
My point here is that this thread was started despite the fact that Entertainers are currently getting some attention. There are many other professions that are not getting attention, or, as in the case of smuggler, have had their scheduled attention, rescheduled to a much later date. Other prefessions, such as TKA had a new weapon added, and then taken out after some people had already paid millions of credits for a chance to use it...yes it was unbalanced, but those countless millions were not reimbursed, a blantant error was committed by the development team, yet nothing could be offered but a hearty appology. There are plenty of professions that are no getting attention, or are being nerfed, or have been totally ignored simply becasue there are no resources to allocate to them. Be happy that yours is at least on the list of those that will get some attention, and actually is planned to get more attantion in the future.
Drygo
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:25 pm
#59
Ok...forgive me if this ends up being long or I go from topic to topic...there are a lot of things that were brought up in this thread, and I'm sure I'll forget to respond to several of them in the process.
I think one of the problems with us entertainers is that we don't tend to agree on much of anything. I see a whole bunch of people who are only concerned with performance. I see a whole bunch of people that are only concerned with game mechanics. I see a whole bunch of people who are concerned with a little bit of this and a little bit of that. But, since I mostly hang out on the dancer forums, I can only echo what I've seen Panthu say a few times, we have to have a consolidated voice. I mean, we all seem to have our own little pet issues. And, to be honest, I see this as a credit to our profession...we can be performers, we can be in a band, we can be support, we can RP. That's why I love this game and being an entertainer, I have so many options.
Now, I'm obviously not going to convince everyone that what I say is right. But, this is how I see it. I think we have a lot of content, and I see that we're getting more. I'm very pleased with our content related things...which include, dancing, playing instruments, using the new droids, the new quests, and the Hutt Casino. I do think we are getting some attention, and to be honest, I don't see us lacking in what I'd consider content. I honestly don't have any problems with the devs in this regard, and I feel I have to give credit where credit is due. The devs do care about us (it'd be nice if they actually posted here every once in awhile, tho). If they didn't care, they wouldn't be revamping the quests and doing the Hutt Casino. Even if it *has* been delayed, it's coming, and you can tell in the state of the game addresses and letters that they seem pretty excited about it and think it's going to be cool. I think they're doing a pretty good job of balancing giving us some content related attention just like the other professions. So, honestly, I can't find it anywhere in my heart to get mad at them about it.
On the other hand...I think we are *severely* lacking when it comes to game mechanics. Our buffs don't work all the time, they're not as potent as the doctors.Our Cantinas are overrun with afk'ers and buffbots, rendering us useless and generally untipworthy. On some servers it's extremely difficult to make any money at all as a master dancer, because so many people use buffbots, or drink brandy. And, heck, we can't even use our own skill on ourselves. We can't buff ourselves. It's hard for us to have a place in the overall SWG universe and economy when we no longer have anything to offer to ourselves, or the paying public. We really need lots of fixes in this area, we need them badly, and we need them ASAP.
It's all well and good to say, you're an entertainer, RP, make your own content. Well, that just doesn't cut it with me. I pay $15.00 just like everyone else does, and I expect to get the same degree of attention and development as the other professions. I used to play TSO. And, I used to find it maddening when people would say, "make your own fun, or make your own content." I'm sorry, but I left that game because I FULLY expect the devs of game to provide ME with the fun and the content. Yes, I *do* provide fun, content and RP opportunities to myself. But, the onus shouldn't be completely up to me to do so. It is up to the devs to provide the paying customers with the fun. That's how a business works.
Now, again, I think we're doing okay with content...but it's the game mechanics that we're not doing ok with...far from it. I don't think we need a content revamp (altho, yes, fixing dances and the like would be quite nice). But, I do think we need a game mechanics revamp. I'm fully aware that we didn't have buffs in the beginning, just like I'm fully aware that ID's only recently got the stat migrations. But, that doesn't matter. The point is, we're all *supposed* to have some sort of "content" that allows us to contribute to the interdependence and economy of the game. I'm glad the ID's finally got that content, just like I was glad when we got the buffing capabilities. We need it and we deserve it to be able to fully take part in the economy and the community.
The problem, however, is that it's come to a point that master dancers and master musicians are becoming useless within that economy due to the plethora of buffbots and the inability to buff ourselves. Being able to dance and play music to our hearts content doesn't pay the bills. And, it's extremely discouraging if you have an elite combat profession, and you're always the one that gets mind incapped first because you've buffed your entire hunting party, but you're left there weak and defenseless because you don't have a buff of your own.
Frankly, it leaves one wondering why they even bother entertaining in the first place. I know some people say, well if you don't like it, don't do it. But, that's the problem. I like it. I like it a lot. But, as much as I like it, it's sometimes hard to justify feeling second class because I don't have the same opportunities as other people. And, by opportunities, I don't mean, I should be able to solo a rancor as a dancer. I simply mean, that more and more, I don't have the opportunity to take part in the economy, because the buffbots take away all of my business; and, I don't have the opportunity that every other non-entertainer profession has to use every last one of their skills on themselves. I also don't have the same opportunity as everyone else to use any force sensitive abilities.
Yes, we entertainers have content, and we're getting new content. I'm not complaining about that. I'm complaining about systematically being stripped away of any game mechanical opportunities that every other profession has. Simply put, it's not fair. And, it needs to be changed, and it needs to be changed as soon as possible before every single "real" entertainer leaves the profession, and before this grand "social experiment in MMORPG's" fails.
Content is all well and good, but it's not good enough. And, it won't be good enough until I feel like I can truly be part of the game and the economy again. And, for that to happen, the buffbots need to be stopped, I need to be able to buff myself, and I need to have force sensitive abilities should I choose to go that path.
As I said at the beginning of this missive, I know not everyone will agree with me here. Everyone has their own pet issues. And, I wish we could all agree on what we really need. But, in my opinion, I never really doubted that the devs cared. I don't think they'd be redoing our quests and making them more interesting, and doing the Hutt Casino if they didn't. I am realistic enough to know that their resources are scarce. And, I'm thankful they truly are giving us that attention when they could be spending that time doing other things. But, we need to made viable in the economy again, be part of the interdepency, get force sensitive skills like everyone else, and we need a morale boost. We need to get rid of the buffbots, we need to be able to buff ourselves. IMO, it's all about the game mechanics. And, they need to be fixed ASAP so that our profession doesn't die.
PS For those of you who are not entertainers and feel the need to troll our boards and belittle us, do us a favor. Shut the hell up. You don't see me going to your forums and telling you how much you suck and telling you that your concerns are not valid.
Message Edited by Drygo on 06-15-2004 05:28 PM
SakeO
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:40 pm
#60
Do you really want force-sensitivity to be a requirement to make the best buffs? Many other professions are very concerned with this concept of superior jedi/whatevers being the pinnacle of the industry. I would not look at this as a slight but, as agodsend to entertainers.
SakeO
JohnMarble
Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:17 pm
#61
I love this idea that entertainers make their own content. I don't need to invest points to socialize or make my own content. I can be nothing buta master marksman, and make my own content. Why should I be an entertainer, anymore? My buffs have no value, and I can't even do it to myself. There is zero gameplaybenefit to being an entertainer. Right now, it's the profession of bots, mulesand fools.
The other day a noob entertainer asked me why they don't get tips, and how they can make money. Simple answer: you don't. Entertainers are the panhandlers of the universe. Even with buffing when you finally reach master, you're not going to make money. Anything pays better. Buffbots give away buffs, so I'm lucky when somebody tips me 1000 credits. Then I go out and run a mission for 30k, in the same amount of time.
Smugglers can make good money, seems fine to me. Why don'tyou smugglers just make your own content, and roleplay smuggling? You know, just go around pretending? That's what you're suggesting I do.
NewJedi
Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:54 pm
#62
Gah, I'm running late; had to work most of the evening. I'll try to log on shortly...
Schardour
Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:25 pm
#63
Warryyr, I know we were talking about how this was last minute and you didn't expect much to happen, but we had a decent turn-out on Ahazi for last-minute notice 
I was (almost sadly) surprised at the number of atk entertainers willing to jump out of the cantina and forego some of that precious xp for a good cause! I'll try to brainstorm tonight while I sleep. We could use some more events of this nature to pick things back up for the entertainer profession.
I was (almost sadly) surprised at the number of atk entertainers willing to jump out of the cantina and forego some of that precious xp for a good cause! I'll try to brainstorm tonight while I sleep. We could use some more events of this nature to pick things back up for the entertainer profession.
Schardour
Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:28 pm
#64
Clarification:
Not "Sadly suprised." I mean I shouldn't expect to not see much support, but I'm still happy that I underestimated that level of support to some degree
(I'm tired. If it doesn't make sense, ask me what I meant some other time, lol. Why do I only post on these boards when I'm half asleep?)
Nyre
Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:36 pm
#65
I play a Master Musician and Master Politian. as well I have since last October and To tell you the truth besides the 5 different sounds I find nothing wrong with the prof. Yes I dont get as much tips as I like but at the same time I made 50k a day playing music in my cities cantina. What they do need is a way for Entertainers to get paid before the player listening or Watching can benefit from doing so.
An Idea I have is this.
Player A has 300 Wounds to his Mind and 600 BF he then goes up to a Entertainer and request to watch them, Entertainer offers a price of 2500 credits Player A pays, he benefits from watching said Entertainer. But if he refuses to pay the 2500 credits he doesnt benefit from watching.
The other stuff is chump change in my opinion with that system I have posted it would also get rid of some of the AFK'ers because they would need to be at the keyboard to set a price.
Also what helps is being in different cantinas instead of all gathering at Coronets. while the other 20 or so cantinas and hotels stay empty.