Entertainer Archive
Thread: One thing going into my second report...
CharmingTiva wrote:
I normally dont post about things like this but oh my people, stop whining. I made it to master dance with NO MACRO, hiting f1.. f2 ..f3, was able to talk to people in /tells, group chat, guild chat and thank people who came in the cantina. And might I add never asked anyone for a tip and bought all of my higher level dance skills .. but thats another thread.
Do the work, its more pleasing to know you worked at something then just went AKF.Sheesh is it so hard toreach up and hit one key? I mean come on. I know a lot of other entertainers who sat there as i did and worked their butts off.
Fighters can't take a mission and go afk while gaining XP and credits, why should entertainers?
Y'know what.. I earn my experience the same way.
Y'know what else? I think it's not my job to tell people how to play the game. So I will continue to reject this until and unless I hear it's a bug or an exploit from the developers. The game mechanics allow it, so we should stop trying to make people play the game we think they should play. We should, conversely, shut up and play the game.
Oh wait, did I say weight, I meant to say AFK. You see folks, it really does not matter at all if you don't like AFK, the same arguments you make about it ruining the class can be made about so many other "SUBJECTIVE" things.
AFK Macroing is not class specific to dancers/musicians. Sony knows about it, if they choose to do something about it it will be applied across the board. Focus on the mechanical issues that need fixing not a subjective issue that has zero impact to anyone. And yes, I have ready your comments about AFK people taking away tips, frankly if an AFK dancer/musician gets your tips that means you are ever more inanimate than the AFK'er. Work on your roleplay.
But the posts in this thread that I find the most disturbing are the ones that say something along the lines of "I didn't use afk macros to get to where I am--nobody else should be able to either." If you enjoyed getting to where you are in the way you did, more power to you. But for crying out loud--this is a game. People play it to have fun. If other people get their fun out of the game in different ways, and they aren't interfering with other players' gaming experieince, let it be. If you get satisfaction from having pressed that flourish key for every point of experience you made, great. If you get satisfaction from being able to play ballad with the band without having forced bands to switch to SW1 with you to get you there, that's great too. Getting bitter about other people just trying to have fun isn't going to make anyone's game experience more enjoyable--yours or theirs.
AFK isn't subjective. It is very objective. You are either AFK, or you are not. When you are AFK you are not playing the game.
There are ways to "fix" this without breaking macros. So far the devs have shown an interest in not breaking macros. Just look at what they did to surveying. They did that without breaking macros. If they deal with this case by case they can keep the general system in place and working, while preventing the antisocial exploits. And yes, AFK macroing is an exploit. If you don't think they want people getting xp unattended, then why do you have to flourish at all? And why doesn't bandflourish give xp?
Personally I think an AFK auto-kick would go a long way towards solving this. There would still be a few, but they would be much fewer instead of rampant.
I went to Theed last night. There was a huge band there. I think about 3 were actually present and the other 15 were all AFK.
"AFK isn't subjective. It is very objective. "
Don't try to twist it. Being bothered by AFK entertainers is very much subjective. A worn out fighter is just as happy to see an AFK entertainer as he is a live one. He doesn't care if anyone is behind the screen as long as he gets healed. And he probably isn't tipping either one, live or AFK, anyway.
Many entertainers are leaving the field because they can't demand payment in any way and can't afford simple things like clothes. Add an "accept watcher/listener?" checkbox and you solve all of the issues... entertainers can insist on payment (especially if they have the diagnose command to choose a rate like the medics) and AFK dancers don't get the business/healing xp (you can get dance/music xp anywhere, afterall... who cares? That's the easy stuff). And, yes, I'm talking about masters in the elite professions totally dropping it for more lucrative and equally social professions.
Reachwind wrote:
This would solve two major problems with the entertainer profession in onegiant move. AFK people would be FORCED to play attened at least long enough to get the entertainer healing lines and the issue of relying on the honor system would be finally resolved.
It would solve the AFK problem (if you insist that it's a problem).
But it would cause many more problems. As pointed out by others:
- In a crowded cantina, it's easy to miss people to select.
- A small group of entertainers holding a monopoly can choose to extort a large sum of money from a town that desperately needs entertaining. And you thought entertainers lacked some respect now!
- The professional entertainer will be obsolete. With the above factors in play, the average gun bunny will spend his 15 skill points and entertain himself. The dancer and musician will no longer be needed. I suppose that's a pretty big solution to the entertainer problem.
I'm sorry, but I vehemently oppose targeting heal. It makes no sense in the game, and it fosters a competitive nature between performer and patron. If you want an us vs. them, then go be a Rebel Marksman. If you want to be an entertainer, then things are fine just the way they are (with the exception of spambots *shudder*).
OK, let me begin by admitting i totally glazed over by about halfway through the second page of this thread, so i skimmed the last bit of it at best...but pretty much the same things were being said over and over anyway. And the biggest problem i see in this thread is that we have two problems--AFK Entertainers and non-tippers--that are not really problems, but symptoms of a profession that isn't enough fun to play.
I am currently skilling up a Dancer/Pistoleer/Tailor, and at peak times, being a dancer is fun--you're the center of attention, flirting and teasing with the crowd, having a grand time. Butskilling up a Dancer is a serious GRIND. XP comes slowly,over HOURS,and the activity to earn it is dull and repetitive. The only interest comes in interacting with the audience, and there is no means to reward such activity, nor to penalize those who don't. Other than intangible entertainment value, the game as it stands offers almost NO incentive to an Entertainer to actually sit at the keyboard. And because many of the Entertainers who are available to heal Mind/BF ARE afk and can be had for free, the market for entertainment is deflated to the point that Entertainers can't make a living.
But the way to fix this is NOT to take away something from a profession with too little to do...the way to fix it is to give the Entertainers compelling reasons to BE at the keyboard. Let the AFK-macro crowd play in the backrooms, alleys, and rhythm sections...who cares? But give the ACTIVE Entertainer a tangible reward for BEING active.
For example, allow a dancer or musician to focus his attention on a single patron for a period, greatly increasing the rate at which THAT ONE PERSON recovers Mind/BF, AND the rate at which that Entertainer gains XP. This is something that would have to be actively monitored...it could be limited to a single 60-second or 2-minute "number" that would then have to be actively renewed. AND it would give the Entertainer some control over WHO gets the benefit of their skills, allowing them to focus only on people who had /tipped them, if that is their preference. The non-tipping free-loaders could continue to lurk in the background and spy on the performance at the current recovery rates...they don't care whether their Entertainer is AFK or not. But for the active participant--the willing tipper--he recieves a tangible payback for his generosity...AND the Entertainer has some means by which he can control the availability of his skill to the public. AND best of all, it gives Entertainers a strong incentive to actively play their characters.
Each member of a group or band could use this focus independently--every performer has the freedom to make eye-contact with whomever in the audience they choose. Group XP for non-focussed healing remains the same, and it doens't matter of the player is AFK or not. But the focussed performance can ONLY be used by an active player, who is there to select targets as necessary to keep thesuperior XPand tips rolling in.
The problem here is NOT that it is possible to macro your way to the top, given time and a cleverly written script...the problem is there is currently no incentive NOT to do this. So, solve the problem by rewarding the players who play the profession the way it was intended, not by penalizing EVERYONE, in this profession and many or even every other. And in so doing, you would also give people a positive benefit to being generous with their tips. The minimum-interaction baseline remains in place--low-speed XP for essentially mindless performing, offering slow healing for little or no money--but the rewards for more active play will inspire most people to take a more active role in performing and being performed for.
I hope this goes through. I myself am not a dancer. I'm a Rifleman/Squad Leader who has a habit of dying quite a bit. 
Anyways, I go into Cantinas and, usually, every dancer is AFK. Now, that in itself pisses me off. If you play a class where you aren't going to be at the keyboard, why even play it at all? Doesn't make sense to me. What further angers me is that most of these AFK Entertainers are reminding us to tip them. IRL, it is incredible rude to remind someone to tip at all. It's a whole other level to not even be there and remind people to tip.
CharmingTiva wrote:
Fighters can't take a mission and go afk while gaining XP and credits, why should entertainers?
I will bet anyone on this board 1 million credits that I can show anyone how to accrue combat xp while afk. If I fail, I will pay you.However, since I won't fail, you have better have the credits on hand.
Killian Red Money Removal Service is an Equal Opportunity Money Removal System. All Rights Reserved.
I want to also extend that 1 million to afk sampling. Any takers?? I could use another mil in the bank.
Tiaga wrote:
AFK isn't subjective. It is very objective. You are either AFK, or you are not. When you are AFK you are not playing the game.
There are ways to "fix" this without breaking macros. So far the devs have shown an interest in not breaking macros. Just look at what they did to surveying. They did that without breaking macros. If they deal with this case by case they can keep the general system in place and working, while preventing the antisocial exploits. And yes, AFK macroing is an exploit. If you don't think they want people getting xp unattended, then why do you have to flourish at all? And why doesn't bandflourish give xp?
Personally I think an AFK auto-kick would go a long way towards solving this. There would still be a few, but they would be much fewer instead of rampant.
I went to Theed last night. There was a huge band there. I think about 3 were actually present and the other 15 were all AFK.
LordTigris wrote:
CharmingTiva wrote:
Fighters can't take a mission and go afk while gaining XP and credits, why should entertainers?
I will bet anyone on this board 1 million credits that I can show anyone how to accrue combat xp while afk. If I fail, I will pay you.However, since I won't fail, you have better have the credits on hand.
Wow, that is the most informative post I've seen.
Rather than throw out vague gambling boastings to prove a point, why don't you just prove the point by showing us.
I expect such circumlocution from politicians. I expect better from members of this forum. I know it's foolish of me, but call me an optimist.
The reason you are wrong is simple Kuildeous... Medics. Medics are already under this same system and the things you fear justaren't happeningwith them.
The only thing that would happen is that in a crowded cantina people would be forced to ASK the entertainers with skill to heal them quickly instead of just leeching off of them. The only people who would be "missed" would be the people that didn't step up and asked to be healed. You could still give away free heals to anyone you wanted... You could still hope that people you heal will throw you a tip as an afterthought... Or you could ask them for a fee up front when they requested you heal them. Just like the medics.
The only negatives would be that you as an entertainer would be forced to actually target someone instead of just hitting your flourish or dance macro key while chatting.
Joe Marksman already spends the 15 skill points for music... Go to any high end planet and you'll see a guy standing in the cantina AFK playing SW1. Joe Marksman would just have to pay 500 credits to get a thirty second heal when he was in a hurry next time instead of just/watching the master dancer for free.